burning dvd problems

[^D3vIL^]

DVD Shrink 3.2 and nero 6.6.0.0.
burning problems help me pls



Windows XP 5.1
IA32
WinAspi: File 'Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=4.71 (0002), size=45056 bytes, created 7/17/2002 9:20:56 AM
ahead WinASPI: File 'C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.68, size=160016 bytes, created 7/28/2004 4:51:12 PM
Nero API version: 6.6.0.0
Using interface version: 6.3.1.4
Installed in: C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\
Application: ahead\Nero - Burning Rom
Recorder: <ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16> Version: G7H9 - HA 0 TA 0 - 6.6.0.0
Adapter driver: <atapi> HA 0
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : default (0) -> ATAPI, detected: ATAPI

=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16 atapi Port 0 ID 0 DMA: On
CdRomPeripheral : BENQ DVD-ROM 16X atapi Port 0 ID 1 DMA: On
DiskPeripheral : ST3160827AS 3.42 viamraid Port 2 ID 2 DMA: Off

=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16 D: CDRom0
BENQ DVD-ROM 16X E: CDRom1
=======================

AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 74448896 (0) Byte
ShowDrvBufStat : 0
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 511MB (523760kB)
Free physical memory: 210MB (215064kB)
Memory in use : 58 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Static Write Speed Table: 0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)

1.1.2005
NeroAPI
1:40:57 PM #1 Phase 112 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation started

1:40:57 PM #2 Phase 114 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation completed (no file modified)

1:40:57 PM #3 Phase 111 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files sorted

1:40:57 PM #4 Text 0 File Reader.cpp, Line 127
Reader running

1:40:57 PM #5 Text 0 File Writer.cpp, Line 122
Writer ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16 running

1:40:57 PM #6 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 842
DRM: StartDrmRecording(RealRec:1, ImageRec:0, Copies:1)
DRM: Beginning burn process.

1:40:57 PM #7 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3286
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)

1:40:57 PM #8 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3286
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)

1:40:57 PM #9 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3119
Turn on Disc-At-Once, using DVD media

1:40:57 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 256
Last possible write address on media: 2297887 (510:38.37, 4488MB)
Last address to be written: 2286175 (508:02.25, 4465MB)

1:40:57 PM #11 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 268
Write in overburning mode: NO

1:40:57 PM #12 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2310
Recorder: ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: TYG02 -
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193

1:40:57 PM #13 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 430
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================

1:40:57 PM #14 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 844
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 ()
2 indices, index0 (150) not provided
original disc pos #0 + 2286176 (2286176) = #2286176/508:2.26
relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/ required, no patch infos
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 2286176 blocks [ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16]
--------------------------------------------------------------

1:40:57 PM #15 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1045
Prepare recorder [ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1:
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4682088448, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
__Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_RecDep_|_CtrlAdr_
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x00 | 0x41
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x00 | 0x41
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x00 | 0x41
2286176 | lead-out | 1 | 0x00 | 0x41

1:40:57 PM #16 Phase 24 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files started

1:40:57 PM #17 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4135
Cache writing successful.

1:40:57 PM #18 Phase 25 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files completed

1:40:57 PM #19 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process started at 16x (22,160 KB/s)

1:40:57 PM #20 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2471
Verifying disc position of item 0 (relocatable, disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0

1:40:57 PM #21 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 1955
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode

1:40:57 PM #22 Text 0 File Mmc.cpp, Line 20542
Set BUFE: Seamless Link -> ON

1:40:57 PM #23 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2096
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: Yes

1:40:57 PM #24 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 8259
---- DVD Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: <not specified> (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 0 h
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 0 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

1:40:57 PM #25 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 5089
Drive: ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16
Book Type request: DVD-ROM
Drive doesn't support changing Book Type for DVD-R

1:46:31 PM #26 SCSI -1135 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1429
SCSI Exec, HA 0, TA 0, LUN 0, buffer 0x00CD0000
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x03 (KEY_MEDIUM_ERROR)
Sense Code: 0x0C
Sense Qual: 0x00
CDB Data: 0x2A 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x64 0x60 0x00 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x71 0x00 0x03 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x12
0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x0C 0x00

1:46:31 PM #27 CDR -1135 File Writer.cpp, Line 311
Write error

1:46:31 PM #28 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 229
all writers idle, stopping conversion

1:46:31 PM #29 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 223
conversion idle, stopping reader

1:46:32 PM #30 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2338
EndDAO: Last written address was 25695

1:46:32 PM #31 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 5089
Drive: ATAPI DVD DD 2X16X4X16
Book Type request: DVD-ROM
Drive doesn't support changing Book Type for DVD-R

1:46:32 PM #32 Phase 38 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process failed at 16x (22,160 KB/s)

1:46:32 PM #33 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 867
DRM: DRM burn session terminated.

1:46:32 PM #34 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 896
DRM: Closing entire DRM handling. Bye.


Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\ASPI32.SYS': Ver=4.71 (0002), size=16877 bytes, created 7/17/2002 8:53:02 AM

Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)

[bazooka]

First thing

Uncheck set book type to dvd-rom in Nero.

Your drive does not support it.

Try writing at a slower speed.

[big-boo]

same prob or almost
i updated nero and firmware on my dvd writer

i can burn DVD+R but not DVD-R
same company on dvd only diff + and -

my writer support them all LG GSA-4163b

i get the error
cant write Disc at once someting like that

i unchek option for automatic or dvd-rom option (like i see in other topic)
and i tryed at all supported speed

any idea?


Windows XP 5.1
IA32
WinAspi: File 'Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=4.60 (1021), size=45056 bytes, created 10/09/1999 12:06:00
ahead WinASPI: File 'D:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.74, size=164112 bytes, created 26/10/2004 17:35:34
Version de Nero : 6.6.0.5 (Nero Express)
Graveur : <HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B>Version: A102 - HA 1 TA 0 - 6.6.0.5
Pilote d'adaptateur :<atapi> HA 1
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : default (0) -> ATAPI, detected: ATAPI
CD-ROM : <Image Simulation >Version: 1.0g - HA 0 TA 0 - 6.6.0.5
Pilote d'adaptateur :<PrecSim> HA 0

=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : Image Simulation 1.0g PrecSim Port 0 ID 0 DMA: Off
CdRomPeripheral : HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B atapi Port 1 ID 0 DMA: On
CdRomPeripheral : HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8520B atapi Port 1 ID 1 DMA: On
DiskPeripheral : IC35L060AVV207-0 atapi Port 2 ID 0 DMA: On
CdRomPeripheral : Generic DVD-ROM 1.0 d347prt Port 3 ID 0 DMA: Off
CdRomPeripheral : Generic DVD-ROM 1.0 d347prt Port 3 ID 1 DMA: Off

=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
Image Simulation I: CDRom2
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163 E: CDRom0
HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8520 F: CDRom1
Generic DVD-ROM G: CDRom3
Generic DVD-ROM H: CDRom4
=======================

AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 66060288 (0) Byte
ShowDrvBufStat : 0
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 447MB (458228kB)
Free physical memory: 103MB (105524kB)
Memory in use : 76 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)

17.11.2004
Graver une image DVD
01:58:58 #1 Text 0 File Reader.cpp, Line 127
Reader running

01:58:58 #2 Text 0 File Writer.cpp, Line 122
Writer HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B running

01:58:58 #3 IMAGEGEN -10 File ImageGen.cpp, Line 366
Image was written as DAO.
DAOI:
MediaCatalogNumber = ''
TocType = 0x00
Finalized = 1
First/Last Track = 1 / 1
1: ISRC = ''
Blocksize = 2048
TrackMode = 'TRM_DATA_MODE1'
TrackConfig = 0x00
First/Last Index = 0 / 1
Index0FilePos = 0, Index1FilePos = 307200, NextTrackFilePos = 4241502208
CUES:
0: Ctrl=0x41 Trk= 0 (0x00) Index=00 Start=954437:08.46 ( -150) RecDep=0x00
1: Ctrl=0x41 Trk= 1 (0x01) Index=00 Start=954437:08.46 ( -150) RecDep=0x00
2: Ctrl=0x41 Trk= 1 (0x01) Index=01 Start=00:00.00 ( 0) RecDep=0x00
3: Ctrl=0x41 Trk=110 (0xAA) Index=01 Start=460:11.71 ( 2070896) RecDep=0x00
MTYP: Mediumtype = DVD (old format) (0x1C)
Image file name: <C:\Documents and Settings\Kevens\Bureau\Image.nrg>

01:58:58 #4 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3155
Turn on Disque entier, using DVD media

01:58:58 #5 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 257
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 2070745 (460:09.70, 4044MB)

01:58:58 #6 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 269
Write in overburning mode: NO (enabled: CD)

01:58:58 #7 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2310
Recorder: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: AN30 -
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193

01:58:58 #8 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 431
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================

01:58:58 #9 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 829
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 (1 - DVD-ROM)
2 indices, index0 (150) provided
original disc pos #0 + 2070896 (2070896) = #2070896/460:11.71
not relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/not required, no patch infos
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 2070896 blocks [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B]
--------------------------------------------------------------

01:58:58 #10 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1042
Prepare recorder [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1:
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4241195008, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
__Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_CtrlAdr_|_RecDep_______ ___
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00
2070896 | lead-out | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00

01:58:58 #11 Phase 24 File dlgbrnst.cpp, Line 1832
Début de mise en cache des fichiers

01:58:58 #12 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4042
Cache writing successful.

01:58:58 #13 Phase 25 File dlgbrnst.cpp, Line 1832
Cache des fichiers terminé

01:58:58 #14 Phase 36 File dlgbrnst.cpp, Line 1832
Début de gravure à 4x (5 540 Ko/s)

01:58:58 #15 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2604
Verifying disc position of item 0 (not relocatable, no disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0

01:58:58 #16 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2260
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode for Multisession

01:58:58 #17 Text 0 File Mmc.cpp, Line 21060
Set BUFE: Buffer underrun protection -> ON

01:58:58 #18 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2401
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: No

01:58:58 #19 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 8332
---- DVD Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 5
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: <not specified> (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 26127F h
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 2FE10 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 2FFA0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 02 FE 10 00 02 FF A0 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

01:58:58 #20 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 4831
Drive: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B
Book Type request: DVD-ROM
Book Type setting not supported for the loaded disc type

01:59:22 #21 SCSI -1135 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1432
SCSI Exec, HA 1, TA 0, LUN 0, buffer 0x068B0800
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x03 (KEY_MEDIUM_ERROR)
Sense Code: 0x0C
Sense Qual: 0x00
CDB Data: 0x5C 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x0C 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x71 0x00 0x03 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x10
0x32 0x4D 0x00 0x0C 0x0C 0x00

01:59:22 #22 SCSI -1064 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1432
SCSI Exec, HA 1, TA 0, LUN 0, buffer 0x03010000
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x05 (KEY_ILLEGAL_REQUEST)
Sense Code: 0x21
Sense Qual: 0x02
CDB Data: 0x2A 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x70 0x00 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x10
0x2A 0x00 0x00 0x0C 0x21 0x02

01:59:22 #23 CDR -1135 File Writer.cpp, Line 311
Erreur écriture
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B\H1 T0

01:59:22 #24 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 228
all writers idle, stopping conversion

01:59:22 #25 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 222
conversion idle, stopping reader

01:59:22 #26 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2642
EndDAO: Last written address was 31

01:59:24 #27 Phase 133 File dlgbrnst.cpp, Line 1832
Écriture de clôture rapide

01:59:25 #28 SCSI -1135 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1178
SCSI Exec, HA 1, TA 0, LUN 0
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x03 (KEY_MEDIUM_ERROR)
Sense Code: 0x0C
Sense Qual: 0x00
CDB Data: 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x71 0x00 0x03 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x10
0x32 0x4D 0x00 0x0C 0x0C 0x00

01:59:25 #29 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 4831
Drive: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B
Book Type request: DVD-ROM
Book Type setting not supported for the loaded disc type

01:59:25 #30 CDR -1135 File WriterStatus.cpp, Line 167
Erreur écriture

01:59:25 #31 TRANSFER -24 File WriterStatus.cpp, Line 167
Impossible d'effectuer la fonction Disc At Once

01:59:25 #32 Phase 38 File dlgbrnst.cpp, Line 1832
La gravure a échoué à 4x (5 540 Ko/s)


Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\ASPI32.SYS': Ver=4.60 (1021), size=25244 bytes, created 10/09/1999 12:06:00
File 'Drivers\InCDfs.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 11, 1, size=99456 bytes, created 03/01/2005 11:33:44 (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
File 'Drivers\InCDpass.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 11, 1, size=28928 bytes, created 03/01/2005 11:33:24 (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
File 'Drivers\InCDrec.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 11, 1, size=8704 bytes, created 03/01/2005 11:33:46 (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
File 'Drivers\atapi.sys': Ver=5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920), size=86912 bytes, created 28/08/2002 20:27:50 (Adapter driver for rec)
File 'Drivers\precsim.sys': Ver=1.14.0.0, size=62688 bytes, created 12/03/2002 00:00:00 (Adapter driver for src)

Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)

[Gurm]

Good Lord, people.

How about just telling us what goes wrong, instead of posting incomprehensible logs?

[big-boo]

eeeee i did and i put it in bold .... i past again


same prob or almost
i updated nero and firmware on my dvd writer

i can burn DVD+R but not DVD-R
same company on dvd only diff + and -

my writer support them all LG GSA-4163b

i get the error
cant write Disc at once someting like that

i unchek option for automatic or dvd-rom option (like i see in other topic)
and i tryed at all supported speed

any idea?


well i did allsuggested thing

update nero
update firmware
uncheck dvd-rom option in nero

but it still dont work with DVD-r and it work with DVD+R

i suppose it can be the media but WHY? its both the same compagny

i tryed to burn an image and a dvd folder (tsvideo)
at 8 4 and 2x its worked the first time with DVD+R but never with -R

i used nero
WinAvi (never started to burn he just freezed without progress bar get up)

[Gurm]

Depends. Some companies make good +R but bad -R. Try another kind of media.

[big-boo]

i will try it but in the log (incomprehensible logs like you said and i agree)

Drive: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4163B
Book Type request: DVD-ROM
Book Type setting not supported for the loaded disc type

well i uncheck the option and
force it to choose something else than DVD-Rom

good i dont waste media it dont burn at all i will retry and retry

i will go buy other media todays

i will still wait for other suggestion i want to solve prob not bypass

[Gurm]

Well here's the thing.

Your drive may just hate that particular brand of media.

Lots of DVD burners, especially first-gen combo burners, CLAIMED to burn both -R and +R, but in reality they were primarily one or the other (usually +R).

- Gurm

[big-boo]

well i tryed evrything i have to said than its probably the cause

well i will try another brand any one to suggest?