JVC DRM10SL or Pany DMR E55

[lordsmurf]

It has been well documented repeatedly in this forum that the JVC has problems. Some have tried to downplay this fact. We all know that no machine is perfect, but as many have stated previously, the Panasonics produce very good results and are reliable. Plain & simple.

Why do people "downplay" Panasonic macroblock problems?
(Seen on pretty much anything beyond 2 hours!!!)

They STILL DO IT with the E20/E30 IRE problems.

They are fairly reliable ... but is that enough? I say no.
It needs to give quality at the same time. Longevity isn't everything.

[samijubal]

Why go beyond 2 hours? I've traded dozens of discs with other people done on many different recorders, on a decent high resolution TV they suck, period. I've used about 5 different recorders myself, LP blows on all of them. Why sacrifice all that quality over a few cents. If it looks good to you, you must need glasses or have a low resolution TV. The JVC is a problem prone machine, everyone here but you seems to be able to accept that.

[kawasaki]

I bought a DRM10SL about 5 months ago, it lasted about 10 weeks before it had to go back for repair because of green lines all over the picture and constant freezing and reseting, 2 friends who also bought the same recorder just after me have also had to send theirs back due to the same problem. I bought a DRM E55 while my JVC was being repaired and have to say the difference in picture is almost unnoticeable. As for the macro blocks mentioned it records a better picture even on 4 hour setting than i get from my pace digital cable box, so if you have digital tv and are happy with the picture you certainly wont be dissapionted with the DMR E55. The Panny also has a much quicker response to commands than the JVC which is quite sluggish. I now have th JVC as a backup and would recommend people to avoid at all costs, unless you want it in the repair shop more than you use it!

[lordsmurf]

Again, the technical specifications of LP and SP are almost identical. The bitrate allocation is nearly bit-for-bit the same. If SP "looks better" than LP, there is a quality problem in the chipsets.

704x480 5.0Mb/s VBR is the same as 352x480 2.5Mb/s VBR

720x480 is somewhat larger and will need closer to 5.5 to achieve same bitrate. Not exact (1.03 vs 1.1 variance), but very close.

The same capture reasonings apply: no need to surpass your source res, no benefits will be gained. EXCEPT when dealing with flawed hardware/software. This is the case here.

Panasonic DVD recorders are very analogous to BT8x8 chipset capture cards. Those have a large following too, and share the EXACT SAME kind of flaw (lower res results in reduced quality, and for no perceived reasoning). People love 'em, I do not understand why.

Some of the Panasonics use 704x480 max res (but not all), so those will yield better than LP results because it has a higher allocation by a factor of 0.1 or so. Some of this may depend on RAM vs R also, never spent time checking into it.

Small numbers can make a difference.

My inverse question is why fill a room with discs when half a room would have been equal quality?

[lordsmurf]

I give up. Everybody take your recorders back to the store. We all made a huge mistake. Panasonic is best. Everybody buy a Panasonic. All other recorders suck. Full of flaws, nothing works, it's all broken. Panasonic is the best quality around, and the only one that's going to last longer than 3 months. Everybody go buy a Panasonic.

I'm out.

If anybody needs me, I'll be in off-topic or restoration.

[kawasaki]

The original question was which is better out of the Panasonic and JVC, as i own both I have to say the Panasonic because it works. Any other brands i can't or haven't comment on because I haven't used them.

[ejai]

The loss of sharpness is very important to me as well. I admit I want a clean video capture but lack of sharpness makes my eyes feel a slight strain when viewing it. The JVC also needs more contrast and that would make up for the lack of sharpness.

I experimented with the a JVC capture and a Panasonic capture and found the Panasonic was more sharper and the contrast was stronger, yet the JVC was smoother and cleaner.

In order to remedy this situation I started using a video enhancer with the JVC in order to retain some sharpness and contrast. Once I did this the video was perfect for me. I didn't need the enhancer with the Panasonic but the over 2 hour recording became a slight problem using the Panasonic.

[kawasaki]

More info on the problem

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144649

[lordsmurf]

More info on the problem
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144649

Nice link. Proves what I've said for several months now.
- 1 - It is a power problem.
- 2 - You can avoid it by turning ON power save mode (default is OFF)
- 3 - If you let it die, a new resistor (or capacitor, forget the word) fixes it.

Easy as 1..2..3..

[ejk71]

Easy as 1 2 3 would've been JVC Re-calling their models and FIXING the problem, not letting customers drop $200+ on it then having the unit breakdown and have to get fixed. I never had a problem with Panasonic's Recorder crapping out on me, especially when recording special 1 time shows and events, JVC did. You get problems with a AC3 stream? I never do and if I did I would make up for it by re-encoding the stream myself. I'm not saying Panasonic is god, every recorder has its own problems but when it comes to reliability and stability it definitely beats the JVC. And about the LP and SP and having less discs, would you rather have less discs but some coasters because of the JVC deciding to do its "loading" perfomance or would you rather have more discs with flawless recordings? LP and under has always been crap and always will be, no matter what recorder.

[ejai]

The Power save function should be an option, not a requirement. Due to the problems some people are experiencing with the JVC this seems like the only option available.

I've gotten use to it and seems to work.

[lordsmurf]

The Power save function should be an option, not a requirement. Due to the problems some people are experiencing with the JVC this seems like the only option available.

I've gotten use to it and seems to work.

I really do not understand the feature to begin with. Why on earth would you ever want to feed a constant power source to an electronic video device? That's just suicide.

[samijubal]

What if you want to timer record? Something I did all the time that can't be done from power save, making it useless to me.

[ejai]

If it's useless then why is the option there? If I can't use the option without the system going bad then there is a name for it............DEFECTIVE.

[lordsmurf]

If it's useless then why is the option there? If I can't use the option without the system going bad then there is a name for it............DEFECTIVE.

Poor planning.

[gshelley61]

Everyone is so passionate about the JVC vs. Panasonic issue! I owned both at the same time... as I've mentioned many times before, the JVC performs some video pre-encoding processing (most important of which is video noise reduction that actually works very well). The Panasonic only has video processing and noise reduction on playback (the JVC does, too). This results in the JVC making a smoother, less noisy MPEG2 capture than the Panny. There's simply no question about that.

Also, I had problems trying to extract and edit the Panasonic VR format (DVD-RAM) files for transfer to DVD-R. Sometimes the extracted files would work OK, other times they would stutter or freeze up. The JVC performs very well with DVD-RW in standard DVD-Video format, which is a big plus for me. I've never had any trouble with these recordings as far as downloading and editing them goes.

As to the reliability of the JVC machine, mine has worked fine with the exception of one "loading" message a few months ago. I use mine strictly as a MPEG2 harware capturing device, so perhaps I have not put that much stress on the unit. Maybe the resistors that have gone bad in some of the machines are OK in mine. I don't know. I think the "JVC is unreliable" mantra is overblown. I'm not a big JVC fan... in fact much of their consumer line is crap, I agree. But they built some very fine VCR's in the past, and this DVD recorder I have is excellent for the money. The image quality it produces is the best I've seen so far.

FWIW, YMMV

[ejai]

Also, I had problems trying to extract and edit the Panasonic VR format (DVD-RAM) files for transfer to DVD-R. Sometimes the extracted files would work OK, other times they would stutter or freeze up.

I've never experienced this problem. I've create over 300 DVD-Rs using the Panasonic E50 and never had a problem with bad data. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I haven't had this issue.

I presently use the JVC more so than the Panasonic, once I stated using the Vidicraft Detailer to enhance the picture. The smoothing effect that the JVC uses tends to blur the video and devices like the Detailer fixes this problem.

[DVWannaB]

I jump into this conversation/fight with some trepidation. Such fights on these websites are usually pointless and confuses the guy/gal trying to understand or in making a buying decision.

The original question was concerning the JVC DRM10SL vs the Panny. I dont have that model JVC, but I recently purchased a JVC DR-MH30 (with hard drive) and I must say it has worked extremely well so far. Like GShelley, I use mine strictly as a hardware capture device. Unlike many, I was not expecting perfection in every dimension and true to form there were some quirks.

The main oddity I have found so far, is that occasionally (rare), there is a loud POP in the audio and the video flashes. I am 100% certain it is not from my source Dish Network cable. It is a quirk in the machine and I will continue to monitor and see if corrective action is needed.

The included manual is pure "azz". Whoever wrote showed do jail time . The sequence of operations do not match what is in the manual, so you are left to "sorta-kinda" figure things out on your own. Not being very smart, I would screw something up, and then go back and fix it 8)

All my recordings have been done in FR mode. I often record football games to 2 disks and FR90 works fine (FR90 = ~ 6+ Mbps) and records about 90 minutes per disk.

Title splitting is a breeze. Recording to DVD-RW in VR mode is not a problem. Womble MPEG Video Wizard opens *.VRO files (with AC3 audio) as cool as the other side of the pillow. DVD-lab to author and Nero to burn on Prodisc DVD-R printable.

Still gotta figure out this "pop" thingy though.

Late

[gshelley61]

I've never experienced this problem. I've create over 300 DVD-Rs using the Panasonic E50 and never had a problem with bad data. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I haven't had this issue.

It may have been a problem with my install of XP SP2, or maybe a bad dll file or something. I know plenty of other folks have not had this issue. VR mode DVD-RAM's were finicky for my setup, though.

[ejai]

I jump into this conversation/fight with some trepidation. Such fights on these websites are usually pointless and confuses the guy/gal trying to understand or in making a buying decision.

Late

I disagree, I find that the more info and opinions that are found on a subject can help a potential buyer to make a better decision. If you have an opinon then make it known, expressing different views are what forums are all about.

I've learned so much just by the exchange of information and personal experiences alone. I don't consider it a fight, but an opinion.

[lordsmurf]

The main oddity I have found so far, is that occasionally (rare), there is a loud POP in the audio and the video flashes. I am 100% certain it is not from my source Dish Network cable. It is a quirk in the machine and I will continue to monitor and see if corrective action is needed.

That's a typical kind of satellite interference error. I've heard it many many times back when I had DirecTV. I can imagine it in my head right now. Check your DISH alignment and transponder signa quality. Be sure it's in the 90% region.

I would see if it can be repeated on a VHS conversion (no satellite source). I highly doubt it's the DVD recorder.

[samijubal]

The main oddity I have found so far, is that occasionally (rare), there is a loud POP in the audio and the video flashes. I am 100% certain it is not from my source Dish Network cable. It is a quirk in the machine and I will continue to monitor and see if corrective action is needed.

Is it a certain channel? Encore and Starz had that exact problem a few years back. I called them and told them, a month or so later they called and told me they found the problem, when installing new equipment someomene left a synchronizer disconnected. From then on it was never there.

[samijubal]

Also, I had problems trying to extract and edit the Panasonic VR format (DVD-RAM) files for transfer to DVD-R. Sometimes the extracted files would work OK, other times they would stutter or freeze up.

I've never experienced this problem. I've create over 300 DVD-Rs using the Panasonic E50 and never had a problem with bad data. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but I haven't had this issue.

I presently use the JVC more so than the Panasonic, once I stated using the Vidicraft Detailer to enhance the picture. The smoothing effect that the JVC uses tends to blur the video and devices like the Detailer fixes this problem.

I've done many, many Panasonic DVD-RAM discs to DVD-R. The only time I've ever had any problems is with defective Optotrash discs.

[DVWannaB]

lordsmurf & samijubal,

The channel in question is ESPN (happened last night). I will check my transponder to see what is up with that.

Now that you guys have said that, I am retracting my "100%" certain that it is the unit causing the rare pops

Thanks much.

__________________________________________________ ______

ejai,
I dont know, man. I think if you have a good understanding of the technology, with buzz-words, capabilities, how to author a DVD, then such discussions could be of value. But if you are just a dude who woke up this morning and decided to trade in his 10-year old VHS VCR for a DVD recorder he saw last night from a Circuit City TV ad, I really dont see how a your machine sucks and my machine is great helps him. He is going to end up buying based on his being more convinced that one sucks worse than the other or vice versa. Just my thoughts.

[ejai]

It all boils down to your machine sucks and mine is better no matter how you look at it. Consumer Reports sometimes gives a high rating to a car or consumer product that some feel are less than deserving. I've even seen on this site where some of the people feel CR's rating are unfair or untrue.

This is why we engage in debate. No one product will be perfect to all but in debate you may be able to figure out what you might like or dislike about that particular product.

Look at the JVC for example, excellent quality video but the product's durabilty is in question. This comes from people stating their findings. Of course some take it to the extreme but you have to filter through it all. Most likely if you see a certain response given by most then you can pretty much determine that there is some truth to that point.

Why should one person say this particular product is great and everyone else follow? I prefer debate.

[gshelley61]

As others have mentioned, one can always buy from a retailer or online site that has a good return policy. That way they can check out a machine thoroughly to see if it is a good fit for them without any real risk.