vhs to dvd, color problem i think?

[Myran79]

Hi, i posted this question in Newbie / General but i think this is more the right forum.

This is how it looks, i can´t imagen that the difference should be this bad.

This is from my avi that is captured with VirtualVCR



And this is what it looks like when i encode it



I encode with Tmpgenc 3, no filters.

What is the problem?

Hope someone can help me?

/Jonas

[mpack]

Was that a Huffyuv AVI capture originally?

Anyway, there may be nothing wrong. Your AVI video is probably captured using the YUY2 color format originally, so it uses the YUV color model. The usual range for the Y component of YUV is 16-235. Now a media player would normally (but there are no guarantees) expand that gamut to 0-255 for display on a PC, but video editors, frameservers, tools like Vdub etc generally won't, because they are designed so that a whole bunch of tools can be applied in sequence, and we can't have every tool in the sequence boosting the contrast of the video! But, it is possible that TMPGEnc stretched the contrast during the transform to YCbCr space, or it could simply be that you are using a Media Player to view the mpeg, and it is the media player which is stretching the contrast to PC range.

Basically, you need to be aware that you are not looking at the original image, you are looking at one which has been transformed from YUV or YCbCr to RGB for display purposes, and if you use different viewers for the two types of video then the transform used may be different, hence the appearance may be different even if the source colors are the same.

[Myran79]

Hi mpack!

Thanks for the fast reply!

It´s not huffyuv, it´s PICVideo MJPEG Compressor and yes it captured with YUY2.

Is there anyway i can make it look good on both tv and computer?

Thanks

Jonas

[mpack]

It´s not huffyuv, it´s PICVideo MJPEG Compressor and yes it captured with YUY2.

Well, the reason I asked about Huffyuv is that its easier to predict what Huffyuv would do with the y,u,v color information coming from your capture card: it would store it compressed but otherwise unmodified.

I don't know the internal workings of the PICVideo MJPEG codec in detail, but it definitely can't be storing it in YUY2 format (YUY2 is a PC image format for YUV images, not a color model - but in your case the image format is JPEG). Also, YUV isn't a standard color model for JPEG on a PC, so whatever app is reading the JPEG could be misinterpreting the colours, eg. treating it as YCbCr instead of YUV, or vice versa. However, this is just a warning: I don't really know if using MJPEG is contributing to your problem.

Is there anyway i can make it look good on both tv and computer?

Sure, just use a good media player on the PC, ie. one that understands the color model used! If you mean, can the color space used by the MPEG be optimized for PC and TV then no, it has to be one or the other.

[Myran79]

I tryed huffyuv but it looks just as bad as with MJPEG.

How would you do if you where transfering from vhs to dvd?
What tools etc. would you use?
The most important thing is of course that it looks good on tv.

[junkmalle]

In Tmpgenc try changing: Setting -> Quantization Matrix -> Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601.

Computer monitors have a very different gamma than television. Unless you are using video display software that compensates for this, you expect video on the computer to look darker than on a TV. You could adjust your monitor to make video look like it does on TV but then everything else would look way to bright. If you adjust the captured video (brightness, contrast, saturation) so that the image looks the same on the computer as the original did on TV, the video will be way to bright when burned on a DVD.

[Shadowmistress]

Do what junkmalle suggests, tick the Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601.

Read the first post of this thread for a comprehensive explanation as to what's going on with your colors and why.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249183&start=0

[Myran79]

I tried to tick the "Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601"

But i still get the same bad picture.

[edDV]

My 2 cents.

What you should be shooting for is a good picture on the TV if home theater is your goal. Hence, a calibrated TV should be used for quality judgments. Test encode a selection of typical scenes to a DVD-RW and make a quality assessment on a tv monitor that has been properly adjusted to the THX or SMPTE color bar slide.

Better yet use an encoder-authoring environment (like Premiere-Encore/Vegas-DVD Architect) that provides video scopes and realtime video monitoring over IEEE-1394 to the calibrated TV monitor so adjustments can be made in realtime.

[Myran79]

Test encode a selection of typical scenes to a DVD-RW and make a quality assessment on a tv monitor that has been properly adjusted to the THX or SMPTE color bar slide.

This feels lika a really stupied question.. but what is that?

[edDV]

Test encode a selection of typical scenes to a DVD-RW and make a quality assessment on a tv monitor that has been properly adjusted to the THX or SMPTE color bar slide.

This feels lika a really stupied question.. but what is that?

What is which?
I'm sugesting that you encode sample scenes all the way through the process for process quality accessment.

ref. THX slide as found on quality commercial DVDs
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/monitorPerform.html

SMPTE color bars
http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902

The slides would be on commercial DVD discs in proper calibration. Adjust the monitor to the slide from the DVD player and then DVD-RW test your encodes on the same DVD player and calibrated monitor.

All this will be much more important as people move to quality large screen home TVs. It is essentially the technique used in professional enviromnets (e.g. broadcasters, post houses, dub-dvd houses)

[Myran79]

Thanks edDV i will try that.

I read something in the thread you posted and lordsmurf said something about changing encoder.
Is CCE a good choice?
The hardest part of learning this is that there is too many tools..

Test encode a selection of typical scenes to a DVD-RW and make a quality assessment on a tv monitor that has been properly adjusted to the THX or SMPTE color bar slide.

This feels lika a really stupied question.. but what is that?

What is which?
I'm sugesting that you encode sample scenes all the way through the process for process quality accessment.

ref. THX slide as found on quality commercial DVDs
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/monitorPerform.html

SMPTE color bars
http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902

The slides would be on commercial DVD discs in proper calibration. Adjust the monitor to the slide from the DVD player and then DVD-RW test your encodes on the same DVD player and calibrated monitor.

All this will be much more important as people move to quality large screen home TVs. It is essentially the technique used in professional enviromnets (e.g. broadcasters, post houses, dub-dvd houses)

[edDV]

Thanks edDV i will try that.

I read something in the thread you posted and lordsmurf said something about changing encoder.
Is CCE a good choice?
The hardest part of learning this is that there is too many tools..

Well I'm not the right one to ask, I'm more of a TV guy and currently I'm standardized on the Main Concept Encoder. (ULead-Premiere-Vegas)

But levels I understand. This amateur DVD craft is largely seat of the pants eyeball currently but calibration discipline will be needed sooner or later.

[Myran79]

Thanks edDV i will try that.

I read something in the thread you posted and lordsmurf said something about changing encoder.
Is CCE a good choice?
The hardest part of learning this is that there is too many tools..

Well I'm not the right one to ask, I'm more of a TV guy and currently I'm standardized on the Main Concept Encoder. (ULead-Premiere-Vegas)

But levels I understand. This amateur DVD craft is largely seat of the pants eyeball currently but calibration discipline will be needed sooner or later.

Those are worth a try to, i tryed premiere onec but it was a bit to "big" for me then but i CCE dosent work i could try it, i like the other adobe programs like after effects, encore and photoshop.

Thanks for your help man!

[edDV]

If you stay with the consumer levels of the programs, you get a complete process path to a DVD in the $99 list price range (much less on the street).

Sony Vegas Movie Studio
Adobe Premiere Elements
Ulead Video Studio 8

All three include a capture-edit-author process path to a DVD and all include the MainConcept MPeg2 encoder.

At a miniumum, these products give you a fast start and a "process reference" to compare all these other tools that people typically use here.

What seems missing from this forum is a reference path to a DVD to which other tools can be compared. (aka scientific method )