Is my Sony InfoLithium battery knackered?

[daamon]

Hi All,

My Sony miniDV cam takes a Sony InfoLithium battery (the ones that tell you how much charge they've got left).

All too often have I put it on charge and forgotten it, and left it on either overnight or longer (once was a couple of days ), when it should only be 2 - 3 hours.

I think I've done this once too often and now the battery fails to show any charge at all. A friend told me that putting them in the freezer completely removes the charge and it should be OK from there, but no luck.

Up until now, I've had reasonable success at getting it charged, but now I think it's finally died.

Is there anything I can do to recover it from the grave?

[ZAPPER]

I'll be watching this thread myself. I have left the company owned digital stillcam out in the van thru a couple of freezes. And I don't think that the new charges are holding as long as they should I am thinking that the new battery is about $80 US. And yes the cold will completley drain the battery, that or it was time for it to die anyways

[lordsmurf]

Your friend is wrong. Freezing temps KILLS battery cells. Doesn't just drain them. I have to be extra vigilant when I take video/camera equipment up north. Changes in air pressure is harmful too. My batteries are about $50-100 each, not fun to replace.

Leaving a battery on the charger too long can damage it, yes. Been there, done that. Really stupid. I did not know at the time.

Overnight is generally fine. Many batteries take 8+ hours to fully charge.

You also hurt a battery by not draining it 90-100% before recharging it. And then finally, most good battery chargers have a "purge" or "refresh" system, that fully discharges and then recharges the battery.

Batteries have a kind of "memory" for charges.

Lithiom batteries are a real pain too, not as friendly or long lasting. They only "hold a charge" longer, but even that is subject for debate. Does an extra 10-25% of charge validate a 100-200% price difference? I do not think so.

Here... read this:
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap15-page2.asp

[ZAPPER]

Lordsmurf
What would you guess should be the life span in years for a battery?

[lordsmurf]

I just edited my post:

Here... read this:
http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap15-page2.asp

A year or two (at most) of regular use will kill it.
Or at very least, make it a pain in the butt to work with or rely on.

That site has a lot of good info if your scroll through the pages.

[ZAPPER]

I don't feel so bad now. I think that the battery in the digital camera has past its prime. I don't know if performance was falling that fast before the freeze or not. The good thing is I can shoot all the pics that I need for a job in less than 30 mins in most cases 10 mins or less. The bad thing is it is probally time for a new battery and now I got to look for a born on date to make sure that I am getting all that I pay for. And to make matters worse my camcorder is getting close to old age too! Damb I got to find a cheaper hobbie! Thanks for an opinion Lordsmurf, I have a hard time trusting manufactures info when the real world is so differnt than theirs.

[edDV]

My original 1999 2hr Sony InfoLithium lost it after about 2yrs. It still showed 90min but wouldn't run 5min. I've borrowed and rented many Sony DV cams. In almost all cases, the borrowed cams have seriously depleted batteries and I have to use my own. The borrowed cams tend to have the small original batteries. The rented ones have huge batteries.

Back in 1999, I bought a Sony NP-700 InfoLithium battery that originally showed 480 min, it now shows 566min which may be a bad sign but still runs at least 3-4 hrs at idle. I keep it on the charger almost constantly since I use this cam to interface my editing computer monitor. Before a shoot I like to use it to stripe tapes so I know I can have some conifence in it. Its one piece of data but maybe the larger batteries last longer when kept on the charger.

Correction its a Sony NP-F750.
I'm striping some tapes with it now to see how far it goes.

[ZAPPER]

Years ago an ops manager at a mall bought a bunch of the rechargable batteries that actually fit inside of the battery packs for drills. He split the cases open and soldered the new bateries together in series and in the configuration that allowed them to fit back into the cases and was good to go for a fraction of the cost of new battery packs. I have considered this option many times myself but have never made a move on it. He did it for the radios too I think. When I am sure that my cam battery is gone to that big battery pile in the sky I may cut it open to see what it looks like in there. If I can do it at half price I will consider it as part of the hobby. much more than half price and I will go store bought new and shiney

[edDV]

Battery is in its second 60min tape and going strong.

Sony still wants $75 for one of these.
Off brand replacements are as low as $25
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43438&item=3862472047&rd=1
3900 vs 3000 mAh but probably won't last 5 yrs.

[mikesbytes]

I have been using an aftermaket li-ion battery after my origional Panasonic battery had seen its day and can say that there is no difference what so ever between this particular aftermarket battery and the origional.

I was wondering if there was anyway to revive the old battery?

[edDV]

I doubt it but these guys think so
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/newsgroups/viewtopic.php?p=152646

mine is starting 3rd hr record
quit at 4hr 23 min (incl 3 rewinds) so 263 min from indicated 566 min.

PS: forgot to mention I had the LCD on the whole 4hr 23 min so that and the rewinds would explain some of the difference.

[daamon]

Your friend is wrong. Freezing temps KILLS battery cells. Doesn't just drain them.

Ah. So the fact that it's been done several times in the life of the battery, most notably twice in recent succession, may explain things...

Still, you live and learn...

Also, thanks for the other info and the link - interesting and useful reading.

@ edDV - Thanks for the link. Interesting reading too...

I'm gonna try a series of charge / discharge cycles to see if that has any effect. Fingers crossed... I'll report back.

Thanks all.

[lordsmurf]

I use "generics" myself, though usually they are still a name brand like Duracell, Energizer or Polaroid.

[gll99]

I'm not recommending this. Who knows if they might blow in your face but.....
Many years ago my portable vcr rectangular batteries went dead (not lithium) after a long storage and no amount of recharging using the built in charger would get anything out of the batteries. I applied a small reverse charge to the batteries over a number of hours using a separate charger and then tried a normal recharge and this time got a small positive read from my meter. I repeated the process several times shortening the time of reverse charge each time and got more positive charge in the batteries until they were both full. I revived both my batteries that way. I added a different connector to one battery lead for my 12 volt tv and the other for the vcr. I used those for a long time after with no ill effects. They are now stored somewhere in my basement. Who knows I may decide to revive them again some day.

[daamon]

Well, I've now got 94 minutes showing in my battery (the most I've ever had was 110 I think), so it's pretty much fully charged. Though I think it's more by luck rather than design, but here's what I did:

Put the battery on an 8-hour charge - the charge light never went out during that whole time. It usually goes out after 2 hours.

Tried it - 3 mins then died. I then continuously turned the cam back on and left it to play until the battery died (got much more than 3 mins, but only in approx. 5 min intervals). Repeated this until the point where the cam would turn off as soon as it was turned on.

Put the battery back on charge and the charge light went out after about 3 hours. Retried and "Voila!" - 94 minutes.

Like I say, this may be the way forward or it may be a tempremental knackered battery lulling me into a false sense of security...

Anyway, its nearly 4am here - so tomorrow I'm gonna leave it playing until it dies, turn on, leave playing etc. until the battery appears totally dead and try another recharge...

I'll report back after that.

[edDV]

Only way to tell what the true minutes are is to test play the camcorder until the battery dies. I find that as a Lithium battery ages, the true play/record time falls far short of the indicated minutes.

It's an early indicator that a replacement is needed.

[daamon]

Excited to test out my 94 minutes, I settled down to watch TV this morning with the cam sitting on the table in front of - still showing 94 mins - and playing away nicely.

5 minutes later it died - I've repeated this process of running for 5 minutes, dying, waiting a while and running some more a few times now.

I'm gonna get to a similar point as above - have the cam turn off as soon as I turn it on, and try another recharge. If it's still crap after that I think it's a case of admit defeat, get a new battery amd don't put it in the freezer!

Thanks to all for your inputs.

Have a Good New Year!!!

[handyguy]

My 3 year old Sony came with a 192 minute battery, after 2 years it read 170 minutes then I recorded on it for a couple hours & recharged it & it went back to 190 minutes.