Subject: A.A.A.D.D.

[vitualis]

Though this is an aside, there is more to education than "making it relevant" for the kid. IMHO, this is why primary and secondary education in the US has gone down the toilet compared to a hell of a lot of other countries.

There is no real secret how to make "normal" kids pay attention in class and to learn. Firstly, you have to make eduation an important and valued asset in society. Why is the standard of education relatively so high in Asia and Eastern Europe? It is because both parents and kids believe in the value of education.

Secondly, it is discipline.

@ northcat: grammar is important. It forms the underlying structure of the English language. Yes, language is about communication, but there is a vast difference between spoken language and written language. Without a good grasp of the fundamentals of English structure, there is only so far you can "intuit" the proper usage of English.

As an analogy, consider maths. If you don't learn basic arithmetic, algebra, calculus, etc., there is no way you can understand any higher maths (which would be obviously required for any further study of engineering, maths, science, finance, etc.) no matter how well you can "calculate your change" in your head.

Spoken English is informal and it will not advance you far in any career. Furthermore, IMHO, a lot of American kids can barely even speak English in an intelligible fashion. Written language is formal and if you can't even string two sentences together without looking like a retard (which would describe at lot of kids coming out of high school in both the US and Australia) you are at a serious disadvantage.

Regards.

[northcat_8]

I deleted the long response but basically....

Please define "normal" kids....

Kids who take geometry and calculus do not need the material related to them. They already see the relevance, for those kids, they are examples not justification.

I think you and we are talking about 2 different types of kids. I've never had a kid in Algebra 2 with any kind of "learning disability" such as A.D.D., special ed, or anything like that. The kids that draw those labels are the ones that are juniors in HS and cannot add fractions yet. The kids in my classes who "have trouble plussin numbers" (Oh yea...I've heard that one more than once )

I do not argue that the importance of education needs to come from society..or "home"...great, we've known that for years...now, how do we change that? We don't. In 2004, for an increasing number of parents having kids is just like having a puppy, you poddy train it and it will raise itself.

I don't really feel like debating the educational system in the US. It's like yelling at a deaf person. It's pointless because it's not going to change. Education started nose diving when the majority of homes became 2 income families.

If you ask me it goes right along with the same people who got spanked as children and grew up to be psychologists who said "spanking = bad" use "timeouts" instead.

If I tried to teach my class in the "chalk, talk, worksheet" format, like it was taught when I learned it back in the day, I would be fired inside of a month. Even though we all know that math is a skill and needs to be practiced to become good at it...we cannot do that. The same people who sat in the "chalk, talk, worksheet" classes are the same ones who say "we need more manipulatives" "how about using a scale to solve algebraic equation". I agree that there needs to be more than "CT&W" but damn I don't think it should just be abandoned. Besides that, I don't remember any of my college professors going out of their way to make their subject matter "fun" for me to learn...come to think of it...every math class I took in college was, "chalk, talk, worksheet or homework" and that was it.

Besides, last time I checked, at the end of the day, I thought the most important thing was that the kids KNEW the material, not that they had fun learning it... not in 2004

The current approach to teaching is more like herding Grizzley Bears, you can't MAKE them do anything, so you have to sugar coat it, dangle it just right so that they come because it's their own idea. <a rough analogy I know but is true, if they don't want to learn it, they aren't going to>...again, not for the college bound kids, but for the kids who are in HS who can't add fractions yet...it is that way for most of them.

[vitualis]

Please define "normal" kids....

I use normal in a very loose generic sense, but in essense, a child without any significant learning disability. Obviously there is a spectrum of academic talent, but I'm sure that you would agree that "most" children should be able to learn basic fundamental maths, science, English and literature if given enough direction and instruction.

Kids who take geometry and calculus do not need the material related to them....

"Take"??

Although I can almost see how some people may not consider basic calculus an essential skill that everyone should have who have passed through secondary education, geometry is one of the basic foundations of maths. It's "optional"?

I do not argue that the importance of education needs to come from society..or "home"...great, we've known that for years...now, how do we change that? We don't. In 2004, for an increasing number of parents having kids is just like having a puppy, you poddy train it and it will raise itself.

How true and sad. It is perhaps probably one of the things that educational policy (in the US and Australia at least) should probably be putting more attention to (i.e., education the parents). It is very much a cultural thing. Arguments (e.g.,) like "Why does my son need to learn this stuff? I never went through high school and look at me now!" would NEVER be used in South-East Asia. There, the cultural norm for the last millenium was that for a man to succeed, he would have to devote his life to study and learning (there are, e.g., dozens of Chinese proverbs to that effect).

Besides, last time I checked, at the end of the day, I thought the most important thing was that the kids KNEW the material, not that they had fun learning it... not in 2004

Agreed. Perhaps people have forgotten that one of the joys in learning is that at a stage when you've mastered something you suddenly realise that you can not only do something you could not have done before, but also that you can conceptualise new ideas and problems that would have escaped you. This is why people go into research or theoretical physics or pure maths. It is also the same reason why people drive to excel in music the arts or sports.

Regards.