P4 or Athlon XP which is better for encoding....

[Sefy]

tinycorkscrew, you should check the people in my work place, the company is so cheap they buy those pathetic 1$ fans which last maybe 6 months, and thankfully I set the BIOS in the board to alert if the CPU is getting hot, but some idiots just keep working and saying, that beeping noise is annoying, can't you turn it off?

So, you'd be surprised what people are out there, I say, if you dont' take care of your system, it's your OWN fault if it gets damanged! take care of it, and it will run like the wind

[nanjil]

hardware gurus out there

Guys
I have a year old compaq amd system (7000z). I have not built a computer before. But looking at how cheaply I can get a amd mother board, I am tempted.

Is it advisable/possible to replace just the mother board and chipset in my compaq system? -ie. just upgrading my existing system?

Thanks

[sommersby]

I got it at the most recent Pamona computer show, went to every vender, ruled out about half because they had armiton MB, the yugo of MB's, got quotes from $418 - 549 for the same system.

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On 2001-12-05 14:50:25, nanjil wrote:
where di you get one for that kind of price?
Any pointers?


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On 2001-12-03 06:28:04, sommersby wrote:
My new AMD1600xp cut my encoding times by about 40% over my 1g tbird, from 4hrs to 2 1/2 hours for a 2 hour movie. And its a cheap upgrade, I got the system with 40g hd, 16x dvd and 256mb ddr ram for $418 total at a recent show.
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</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[sommersby]

well, lets see, I would have to burn up an AMD, and if inside the 3 yr warranty I would get a replacement, 1 yr if not boxed. and if outside the warranty I could buy another and still be cheaper than the Intel, hmmm, tough choice! And who is not going to upgrade inside of 3 years!

[NenoX]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-01 18:53:12, LP209 wrote:
For the people who have upgraded to the P4 or faster AMD's, do you guys notice a big difference in speed when it comes to using the video editing softwares here at VCDhelp?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
I am upgrade my system from 800MHz AMD Thunder to 1GHz AMD Thunder and see no @/*ߤ×÷ difference in encoding time.

NenoX

[tinycorkscrew]

No offense, but why would you upgrade from an 800 mhz Tbird to a 1000 mhz Tbird? Why not get one of the cheaper XP's?

XP's don't just have faster clockspeeds, they have hardware prefetch and support SSE instructions.

[plg-tae]

well i own a amd xp 1900 and a p4 2.0ghz......
ive tested them both side by side.....i love both processors so pleez dont take my judgement as biased.....
the amd xp 1900 is not the fastest on the market as above mentioned...its barely 1.6ghz for christs sake...look at the numbers....i use both tmpeg and cce sp 2.5....encoding on both boxes many times...for various grps...usually svcd...once in awhile vcd....i tested the 2 boxes side by side with the same dvd to see which would encode faster...
the p4 absolutely kicks amd xp's ass......by 25% or more sometimes...even higher depending on the dvd...and filters of course..not to mention both cce and tmpeg are optimized for intel...and tmpeg goes a step further by being optimized for p4....
now im sure most of you know this already but are just in denial because u couldnt afford a p4 so u bought a cheaper athlon xp chip...it is in a person's nature to think what he has is the "best" no matter if it really is or not....i own both processors and did a unbiased test on both...not to mention all these programmers/encoders/and software companies optimize their apps for intel for a reason...dont u think he would own a amd and optimize it for that if it was really that much better?...then there was the rambus vs ddr issue...well with p4 i can get a mobo for either or...where as with amd ur stuck with sdram or ddr....(and dont start whining about how ddr is better than rambus..it isnt..if u owned both u would know this already)
so enough whining...basically...if u are short on cash and want a great processor...get a amd athlon xp...very cheap and fast....if u got the money to spend,,,do yourself a favor and get a p4 2ghz..you will not be disappointed...
here are the specs for the 2 boxes i tested the dvd rip on....
p4 2ghz,256megs registered ddr,win2k,cce,tmpeg
amd athlon xp 1900,256megs unregistered ddr,win2k,cce,tmpeg
p.s. i also tested the same dvd on my older p4 1.7ghz and it also beat the xp 1900....so please ignore the biased opinions of others and take the word of someone who has tested both side by side...(not to mention im not a cheapskate who "hates" on anything he cant afford)

[epic47]

aight....the AMDer's were kicking some ass eariler, but the P4ites are making a come back, what's the deal AMDers?? Can P4ites win this one?

[sommersby]

It comes down to this, in every test in every magazine that I tend to trust, and the number one of those being maximum pc, when something is a dog they say say so, every one has called any comparision between the 1800xp and the 2.0 p4 a wash, even, to close to call, etc. But each one picked the AMD as the editors choice, why, it's simple, why pay twice the price for the same performance when both these chips are going to be outdated in 6 mo if not sooner. They already have a working 20 gig cpu using a new silicon growth technology. So in a very short time we will all be crying about how SLOW our amd xp's and p4's are....lol

[Sefy]

Instead of telling you, how about showing you ? I know it will be a shock to any P4 lovers eyes to see it being wiped out on just about every graphics benchmarks out there, but hey, you gotta learn the truth.

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000195
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000255

Oh, and go through the entire thing, just to see how when the P4 finaly has a small lead, it's VERY small! and those are ALL Professional Highly Intensive Graphics Applications.

[gf]

Hey Sefy I want to include this link and a couple short lines about this subject.
http://www.penstarsys.com/editor/Today/intel2/inteltoday_4.htm

The amazingly high clock speeds of the Pentium 4 have kept Intel in the public eye, and was the reason why AMD went to the model numbering system. While overall performance of the Pentium 4 is no better or worse than the top of the line Athlon, it is clocked up to 400 MHz higher, and in consumer’s eyes, that makes a huge difference. This is also the greatest problem that Intel is facing, as the Pentium 4 does not offer any real advantages over competing products that are significantly cheaper. Intel is faced with a simple fact: the Pentium 4 is what Intel is basing its future and profitability on, and it had better well keep them afloat.

[tinycorkscrew]

plg-tae (if that is your real name) -

Somehow, despite your eloquent prose, I have doubts about the veracity of your account. Perhaps you can provide us with ocular proof? A jpeg perhaps?

Why should we rely on your extremely comprehensive testing when we can go to any reputable review site and peruse their findings?

[Sefy]

Ok, Pentium 4 users, I want you to show me a benchmark on any respected website which shows an Athlon XP vs Pentium 4, where the P4 has such a tremendous lead, after all, you paying all that money, you wanna see some results, so, lets see them.

[NeVeRLiFt]

My AthlonXP 1800+ o/c to 1650mhz is a monster!
It kicks major ass! FSB is running at 143mhz
thats 286mhz DDR and this sucker runs cool idle is 32c
I use a Thermalright SK-6 all copper heatsink w/ a 7k rpm Y's tech fan (spins at almosy 8k rpm btw)

Long live AMD!!!!
AMD 4 LiFe

[Sefy]

Still no replies from Pentium 4 users, how come nobody is showing any benchmarks anywhere that show the Pentium 4 beating the Athlon XP ? not even one ? I wonder why...

[linardi]

Sefy, are you really a moderator?? do you know what is the meaning of MODERATOR. Read your posts once again!
You dont deserve to be a moderator! That title must be thrown away from VCDhelp forum.
You blind your eyes.
Again , just put the name SEFY. Thats it.
Dont put 'certified computer technician' if you dont know nothing.

[leera2]

plg-tae, read your post... do you have any idea what you are talking about?? I think not. Yes the XP 1900 runs at 1.6 so what!, if you really own this processor as you claim then you would know that there is very little difference between it and the P4 2g. Where the hell do you get 25% faster!! stop talking nonsense and go back to sleep.
for honest comparisons go to tomshardware http://www6.tomshardware.com/video/01q4/011207/index.html
this report shows conclusively that the difference in performance is not worth the additional £145($20 it costs to own a P4. who do you think is screwing its customers AMD or Intel ?
BTW, linardi if you have nothing usefull to say dont bother saying anything. If you read the entire thread you will notice a pattern. It seems its always the P4 owners shouting off about how much better their processors are than AMD's. Sefy is trying to prompt these people to post
evidence of Intels claimed superiority..

[epic47]

Hey guys, this is straight up disscussion about the issues, no need to rag on people, especially Sefy, just state your peace and let it be. No attacks on peoples and there character.

[Sefy]

linardi and epic47, when did I rag on people ? when did I attack someone here ? so far you two just attacked my name and me in person, I did not mention any names or attack anyone.

I was talking in a general term towards P4 owners which keep saying how great the P4 is, and yet nobody ever shows proof, I showed proofs again and again, and I was asking P4 owners to show us all, to proove their point.
Show me one place where I have specificly named a person and attached them and their character like both epic47 and linardi just insulted me for no reason.

[mem_user]

We P4 users dont need to show anything. You AMD people on the other hand are trying to justify why you bought an inferior product. Those that whine are just trying to make a big deal out of nothing. The big bully that always brags is the one that loses in the end.

[epic47]

The message about raging wasn't for you it was for linardi, sorry for the literary mix up, but the moral of the story is this,everyone express your opinions and express your proof, and express some love for your follow vcd makers out there people!! We are here to learn not rip(unless it's a DVD).

[tinycorkscrew]

As I've pointed out several times, I own an AMD computer and two Intels. Each of my Intel computers cost me more than my AMD computer. In fact, one of my Intels cost twice as much as my AMD. Neither one of them perform nearly as well as the AMD.

I didn't know anything about AMD when I bought the Intels. Now that I've had a chance to use both, I can't imagine going back to Intel unless things change drastically.

If I were trying to justify buying an inferior product, I'd be talking about how great my Intel computers are, LOL.

If people want to buy Intels, it's fine with me. I hope they'll be happy. Heck, they probably will be happy as long as they don't try AMDs. Ignorance is bliss, you know.

mem_user: I believe that you're the one who is whining here. In anandtech's test of the P4 2.0 ghz vs AMD 1900, the AMD won 12 out of 14 benchmarks. Most of those benchmarks it won convincingly. But don't take my word for it, read it for yourself:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1554&p=1

Those of us on the AMD side of the argument have been supplying links to reviews by respected online journals. Those of you arguing for the P4 have been offering nothing.
You're either too lazy to find something to support your argument or you can't find anything. Or both.

[Sefy]

epic47, it did seem like you were directly it at me, as you did mention "especialy Sefy", the reason i'm asking for proof is because P4 users seem to be on the aggresive side, and always the ones saying how AMD is inferior, and always pointing out all the bad things, however, with all the super structure of the P4, they won't explain why it keeps losing again and again.
but of course, still insist it's much better.

mem_user, they don't need to prove anything, of course not, why try when you know you'd lose if it came to actuall performance? us AMD people (although AMD don't pay me, what a shame) who did buy the "inferior" product, seem to be doing alot of enjoying as our pathetic CPU wipes the floor with the much more expensive P4 on just about all the tests in every respected webpage, and yet, of course, P4 is so much better and so much superior.

[SatStorm]

AMD cost much less and do the job at least the same like Pentiums!
It is so easy! Why so much conversation for it?
X-mass is coming, and an XP 1600 is waiting to go and get it! And I get it CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP
And I shall not change nothing else! NOTHING! Same Motherboard/audio card/ VGA/ Memory.
And guess what: In a year, I shall buy again XP 2500 (or whatever) and I shall not change nothing else! Nothing!

The last 4 years with Pentiums, I remember myself change, change, change, change..... And pay, pay, pay, pay....
I worked to pay intel! Well, not any more!
AMD, I salut you!
Intel Beware!

[2dogs2]

What is a good motherboard for putting dual AMD's on to do encoding ?

[tinycorkscrew]

2dogs2 -

Right now Tyan makes the only dual-AMD motherboards. The Tiger K7 is the most popular, and it's very inexpensive for a dual-CPU motherboard. The Thunder K7 is more expensive, but it includes built-in SCSI support, two built-in NIC ports, and onboard ATI video.

If you don't need all the built-in stuff the Thunder K7 has, I'd go with the Tiger K7. A good place to buy the motherboard is http://www.monarchcomputer.com. If you buy processors and motherboard at the same time, they'll install the processors for you for free and test the system before shipping. Their prices are among the lowest you'll find on pricewatch.

[gf]

SUNNYVALE, CA - Dec. 12, 2001 - AMD today expanded its offerings for the commercial market with the introduction of the AMD Athlon(tm) MP processor 1900+ and the AMD-760(tm) MPX chipset, providing high performance in demanding server and workstation environments.
Motherboards featuring the AMD-760 MPX chipset, with its improved high-speed peripheral connections, are planned to be available initially from Abit, Asus, GigaByte, MSI and Tyan. The chipset is designed to support all AMD Athlon(tm) MP processors for additional platform flexibility.

[epic47]

Well....I seen everyone's opinion on this.....so far the AMDer's had held their ground strongly...at this moment AMD has proven itself to me to be a good chip for it's quality and price.

[Sefy]

AMD has very much proved themselfs with the first introduction of the Athlon, ever since the first chip, Intel has been doing dirty fights to claim back their crown, some of those dirty tricks were:

Threatning mainboard manufacturers, which cripeled AMD's initial startup into the market.
Threatning chipset manufacturers, which explains why at start only AMD and VIA were creating them.Then of course Intel switched from Slot 1 to Socket, and to Slot 2 and to Socket, I think those tricks just crippled their own sales cause people didn't know what to upgrade to!

In the meantime, AMD has only improved on themselfs and gave us great products and introduced NEW technologies, while Intel just showed them on the paper, THAT is I believe why some people would rather choose AMD over Intel.

[d4n13l]

Personally, I am not going to buy another system until I see how well the forth coming P4 Brookdale's will perform against the Athlon of the time, early/mid next year. The P4 is far from its potential at the moment, there is not enough software that fully utilises the P4's design philosophies: The P4 relies heavily on properly optimised code to perform optimumly.
Currently, the Athlon is king of the x86 CPU's, but the P4 is not that far behind as some like to have you believe.
If I had to buy a new system tomorrow, it would Athlon based. They offer much better price/performance and they are very stable nowadays. What is important to get right with AMD based systems, is the motherboard. You have to make sure that you buy a rock solid motherboard, otherwise you will understand why AMD based systems have a reputation for being unstable - It is more to do with crappy, cheapo, 3rd party chipsets than it is to do with the CPU itself. Just visit a hardware site like www.tomshardware.com to find out a decent Athlon motherboard.