problems converting 23.976 progressive source with CCE

[spon23]

I've posted this problem before and I'm really sorry to bother everyone again, but I simply can not figure out what is going wrong. For some reason everytime I try to encode a xvid (progressive 23.976fps) with CCE, the resulting DVD plays with a "stutter" the entire time. It's not only during high motion, but it occurs in every frame. it's almost like it sticks on a frame for a split second too long and then jumps to the next frame.

In the interest of being thorough, I'm going to post all of the information that I can regarding this process.

Gspot reads as follows:

codec: xvid
runtime: 00:57:36 (82,862 fr)
x:y: 640x272 (2.35:1) [=40:17]
Bitrate: 1475 kb/s
FPS: 23.976
Qf: 0.353 bits/pixel
audio name:
ac3 (0x2000) Dolby Laboratories, Inc
Bitrate: 448 kb/s (5 ch) CBR

my Avs script is:

AVISource("Warriors1.avi",audio=false)
LanczosResize(720,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
ConvertToYUY2()

The CCE (2.67) settings I used are:

Video Setting Mode: ES, Multipass VBR
Bitrate: 4500, 9000, 2000
VBR Setting: Video Info File: "create new file"
2 passes
3:2 pulldown detection, letter box hint, Panscan all NOT selected
16:9 Aspect Ration

in the Quality screen:

none of the filters selected
Quantizer characteristics: 28
Intro block DC percision: 10
Block scanning order: zigzag
progressive frame flag is checked

in the Video screen:

GOP Sequence: 3,4
add sequence end code and Close All GOPS are checked
nothing esle is checked
frame rate reads "23.976"

after encoding, I run the .m2v file thru Pulldown to add the pulldown flags. At that point when veiwing the video file, the stutter problem is evident. I've heard that it might be a codec problem, but I've updated all codecs and it doesn't help. I've also burned the DVD and have the same problem when views the movie on all 3 of my DVD players.

Can someone PLEASE help me out if you know what I'm doing wrong. I hate to beg but it's really really driving me crazy.

Thanks for any help!

[p_l]

Sorry I can't help you with CCE, but I was likewise driven crazy by a similar problem using TMPGEnc 2.5, as you can read in this thread. Although I eventually worked out something that I was told theoretically should not work, but did in my case, the simplest solution was in fact to use TMPGEnc XPress 3, which gets it right by default. No more stuttering.

[BJ_M]

you dont have to select 'close all GOPs' , in fact - don't ..

can you clarify which is the avg, low and high here:

"Bitrate: 4500, 9000, 2000 "

you might want to set your high at 8600 and low at 1000

and average at 4500 and use min. 3 pass ..

set block DC prec. to 9 (for that bitrate) ...

GOP Sequence: 3,5 instead

[monzie]

I dont use 2.67 (2.5 and 2.62 here) but I noticed that your version has a 3:2 pulldown detection and you've enbaled it THEN passing the mpv through pulldown.exe.

I highly SUGGEST you read the pdf manual about the pulldown settings.


Try turning OFF pulldown within CCE and then using pulldown.exe (pulldown.exe has never failed me yet).

An upsized xvid will

a) look good with a single pass CBR (if you want speed)
b) NEVER need a max of 9000 (EVER)

To MUCH bitrate is as bad as to little as you will be encoding the avi 'flaws' as opposed to smoothing them.

I would use 2000 min, 4500 ave and max at 6000.

[spon23]

thanks for the replys everyone.

Monzie- where do you see that I have enabled in CCE? In the main CCE window, I have the 3:2 pulldown detection unchecked. Am I missing something? Thanks for the advice regarding the max bitrate. I hadn't heard that before and will try to lower the max bitrate.

BJ_M- I changed the settings per your recommendation and reencoded, but the results were the same. Still "jerky" playback the seems to be skipping every other frame.

p_l- thanks for the advice. I will give it a shot in TMPGEnc with the setting you recommended in the linked post and see what happens.

Any other suggestions? I'm one of those people that can't leave things alone until I figure them out. lol

[spon23]

Ok, here's something interesting. When I DO check the "3:2 pulldown detection" box, then the video plays very smooth, BUT it has Horitontal lines...

[pijetro]

spon23 wrote:

The CCE (2.67) settings I used are:

Don't have the "create new .VAF" checked.

none of the filters selected
Quantizer characteristics: 28
Intro block DC percision: 10
Block scanning order: zigzag
progressive frame flag is checked

If you're encoding progressive, i would suggest checking zigzag..



After you've encoded, then you should run Pulldown.exe . But you probably already know that...

[Poplar]

I just posted my take on it in your original thread:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246789

[spon23]

Again, thanks everyone for the feedback but so far it hasn't help. I do think that I've narrowed down the problem a little bit.

In an effort to make sure that it wasn't my source, I decided to convert the same avi file using TMPGEnc. I did the normal FILM settings that I would use (ie. 23.976 (internal 29.97), 2:3 flag pulldown, ect). The video turned out good. No stutter at all.

I then decided to try the Avisynth script that I was using in CCE, in TMPGEnc. The result- the same stutter problem that I had with CCE! So obviously I either have a problem with the script itself, or for some reason the Avisynth isn't working correctly.

Here is my script (it's very simple):

AVISource("Warriors1.avi",audio=false)
LanczosResize(720,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
ConvertToYUY2()

Should I try another resizing method? In the hours of reading I've spent trying to figure out this problem, I haven't seen anything at all about their being problems with LanczosResize.

Any thoughts? thanks again for your help.

[tedkunich]

Again, thanks everyone for the feedback but so far it hasn't help. I do think that I've narrowed down the problem a little bit.

In an effort to make sure that it wasn't my source, I decided to convert the same avi file using TMPGEnc. I did the normal FILM settings that I would use (ie. 23.976 (internal 29.97), 2:3 flag pulldown, ect). The video turned out good. No stutter at all.

I then decided to try the Avisynth script that I was using in CCE, in TMPGEnc. The result- the same stutter problem that I had with CCE! So obviously I either have a problem with the script itself, or for some reason the Avisynth isn't working correctly.

Here is my script (it's very simple):

AVISource("Warriors1.avi",audio=false)
LanczosResize(720,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
ConvertToYUY2()

Should I try another resizing method? In the hours of reading I've spent trying to figure out this problem, I haven't seen anything at all about their being problems with LanczosResize.

Any thoughts? thanks again for your help.

It almost sounds like your frame order is reversed.

Check out the caputure guide - there is a procedure documented on determining the field order of the source. Or you can shotgun it by determining the field order that Avisynth thinks it is using by adding the info() statement and then forcing it to the opposite with an AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() somewhere in the script.

Good luck

T

[spon23]

Thanks for the reply Ted. Could you elaborate on:

"Or you can shotgun it by determining the field order that Avisynth thinks it is using by adding the info() statement and then forcing it to the opposite with an AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() somewhere in the script. "

I've new to script writing and am not sure what info() means or will do.

[pijetro]

info()

http://www.avisynth.org/Info

The () command uses the default settings of any command..

I'll take a stab at a few things...

Firstly, is it jittery movement during panning and fast action??
Do you see a clean video on your computer monitor, or is this jerkiness on your television only??
If so, it's field order issues..Simply use Restream to change your resulting .m2v file from top to bottom, by checking, or unchecking the "Field order" button..

I strongly suggest using Pulldown.exe after encoding your video with CCE...Very simple to do..Use the GUI..

Secondly, a long shot, but my old Hitachi P305 stuttered playback, because for some reason whenever i encoded .AC3 above the 224 mark, my settop didn't like it, and i got back terrible playback..

Good luck...

[adam]

Since his source is xvid its probably safe to assume its progressive and he has the progressive flag set in CCE. So it can't be a field order problem.

Use a little more process of elimination. Try playing the avs file in media player. If you get the jerks then its got to be a decoding problem with your codec(s). If its ok then I'm guessing that there is some problem with the 16:9 flag, but only if we are talking about playback problems on the hardware player. As a test though, try encoding using the 4:3 setting instead.

[manono]

Hi-

I've seen similar things caused by setting the progressive flags in Pulldown.exe. If you're using any other options besides the basic pulldown, try turning them off.

[spon23]

thanks for all the feedback guys. here's the answer to the questions/suggestions that you gave me (which I apppreciate).

pijetro- the sittery effect is far more noticable during panning, although you can still see it during fast action. much much worse during panning. it is seen on both my computer screen and my TV.

Adam- thanks for the suggestion regarding Media Player. I tried it and the original file plays great; playing the avs script results in the staggering problem as does the playing the encoded video. so it looks like I have a codec problem. I think/thought I have all the latest codecs, but perhaps not.

I will do some research to find out how to delete all my codes and start from scratch with new codecs. thanks.

[spon23]

One question about codecs before I get to work on them. If the problem is my codecs, then wouldn't the original xvid file play with the same stutters? I mentioned this somewhere above, but it may have gotten last in the shuffle- I can encode the file in TMPGEnc and the result looks ok. However when I encode it with TMGEnc using the avs script, the result has the stuttering effect. If it were a codec issue, wouldn't the results be the same whether or not I used the script?

[spon23]

In case anyone is following this thread, I wanted to post the solution to my problem. Some suggest to me to change the avisynth scrip as follows

AVIReader=AVISource(filename,audio=false)

with

AVIReader=DirectShowSource(filename,framerate,audi o=false)

I tried it and it works perfectly! Thanks everyone for your help.