Hey officer.... That's not mine.....!!!

[888888]

Vitualis, you make a lot of good points. To make it clear, I don't think Heroin or other strong narcotics should be available for $5 a hit at your local grocery store. I am not an expert on addiction and I really don't know exactly how addictive or unhealthy narcotics would be. Being another one of those people who "never gets addicted to tobbacco", I tend to look upon extreme addiction skeptically considering some of these anti- smoking lunatics state that tobacco is more addictive than heroin.

However, what I am trying to get at is a lot of the problems are caused by this stuff being illegal. Just because a doctor has access to drugs doesn't mean it still doesn't cause him worries that he might go to jail or lose his carreer if he is found out leading to anxiety and strange behavior. Basically, I believe there has to be a better alternative than locking people up for 18 years like we do here in New York state. Prohibition leads to crime and desperation.

In terms of drug legalization, heroin is a bad example since it is the extreme in terms of physical addiction and euphoric effect. Plenty of other drugs such as "psychedelic" type substances (LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, PCP) should definitely be legalized, if only in a special controlled enviroment.

Coalman, you seem to be repeating what a lot of TV commericals and such say. "Chasing the dragon" etc. I don't think that just because a person experienced the best part of their life means they won't value the rest of it. Your friend does not sound too bright btw, god rest his soul so it definitely varies from person to person. Some people want to be addicted believe it or not. I friend of a friend and his girlfriend fancied themselves as heroin addicts. They would travel to Bushwick to buy, shoot up in alleys, and twitch and shiver on subways talking about how they really need it. Typical rich kids. They obviously thought it was cool or something to in such bad shape and brought it upon themselves making sure they got physically addicted so they could feel hip. This behavior I believe is somewhat stimulated by prohibition and the media. I'm sure they are doing fine now.

Again, I believe an alternative is best instead of the "War on Drugs". I am convinced that this is what is causing most of the so called "drug related problems" in America.

BTW, you wanna talk about something being PHYSICALLY ADDICTING, how about trying to stop taking the prescription anti-depressant EFFEXOR after a few months? Now that's a killer. Considering EFFEXOR is still patented and incredibly expensive, and many health insurances won't cover mental health, I wouldn't be so surprised about gun-toting people holding up pharmacies to get some.

[vitualis]

Venlafaxine (i.e., Efexor) is not addictive. An addition is where you will physically or psychologically crave the substance and will lead to tolerance (i.e., you need progressively more of the substance to get the same effect).

The effect you are describing is somewhat similar to many antidepressants. When you first start taking the drug, there will often be a period where you will feel WORSE before you start to feel better. The "worse" part can often be in the form of aggitation and dysphoria, but it tends to settle down after a week or two. It is often hard to get people to continue with their antidepressents.

People can have the same symptoms when they come off antidepressants -- which is usually why you would slowly taper the dose. However, this isn't an "addiction" as such.

For example, people who take regular corticosteroids (e.g., inflammatory conditions, severe COPD) can feel absolutely crappy if you take it away too quickly. That in itself doesn't make corticosteroids "addictive", however. Not in the general accepted meaning of the term anyway.

The vernacular use of the term "addiction" (e.g., computer games like Halo or Civ3 are "addictive") is not quite the same as the medical use.

Best regards.

[888888]

Venlafaxine (i.e., Efexor) is not addictive. An addition is where you will physically or psychologically crave the substance and will lead to tolerance (i.e., you need progressively more of the substance to get the same effect).

The effect you are describing is somewhat similar to many antidepressants. When you first start taking the drug, there will often be a period where you will feel WORSE before you start to feel better. The "worse" part can often be in the form of aggitation and dysphoria, but it tends to settle down after a week or two. It is often hard to get people to continue with their antidepressents.

People can have the same symptoms when they come off antidepressants -- which is usually why you would slowly taper the dose. However, this isn't an "addiction" as such.

For example, people who take regular corticosteroids (e.g., inflammatory conditions, severe COPD) can feel absolutely crappy if you take it away too quickly. That in itself doesn't make corticosteroids "addictive", however. Not in the general accepted meaning of the term anyway.

The vernacular use of the term "addiction" (e.g., computer games like Halo or Civ3 are "addictive") is not quite the same as the medical use.

Best regards.

I have heard a ton about anti-depressant withdrawl. I would imagine if you are feeling ill after running out of Effexor unexpectedly, you would "crave" it in a similar way to how an addict craves Heroin to relieve his physical illness.

Effexor might not be "addictive" in the purely medical sense but sure seems like it to someone who is experiencing or observing the withdrawl.

[bigmicka]

im a regular recreational drug user. i smoke grass, what i am sick of is being treated like a criminal for something i dont believe necessarily is a criminal act.

to smoke i need to have contact with someone who you can term a criminal. if i did not have to associate with said person i would be alot happier.

i do not condone the use of powders or pills, i would never take them myself.

i am successfull, i have been employed regularly for the last 10 years. Spent 3 months on unemployment when i left university to find a job. what you can term my habit does not extend past what i can afford, so im not out robbing people for a fix. I do not smoke cigarettes, i do not drink alcohol, my health bills have been down, so i do not drain the tax coffers.

so in the governments eyes im a criminal, but if it wasnt for there rule all i would be doing is smoking a herb, a right that cigarette smokers have had for a long time.

if i was allowed to grow one plant in my back yard for personal use or was able to buy of a government agency i would be more than happy to.

im just not happy having to associate with criminals for something that is not dangerous to me, or to anyone alse.

i do suggest one thing though that if grass was leaglised that education be given that its dangerous in the formative years and if you want to smoke then wait till your older. i didnt start regularly till i was 20 and it has had no adverse affect, if i cannot get a supply, i go without which isnt really hard to do.

mic

[vitualis]

I have heard a ton about anti-depressant withdrawl. I would imagine if you are feeling ill after running out of Effexor unexpectedly, you would "crave" it in a similar way to how an addict craves Heroin to relieve his physical illness.

Um, no.

Read what I read before. You are generalising the term and that is NOT what we mean by "addiction". If I gave you free reign to use venlafaxime, you will not progressive use higher and higher doses. There is no tolerance. You don't feel "better" by using a higher dose. You just get more side-effects.

For example, people with arthritis will get pain relief from paracetamol. If they stop paracetamol, they will get their pain (and hence, will want to take paracetamol again). This however, is not an addiction. Paracetamol is not addictive. Contrast this to morphine and opiates..

Regards.