Authoring separate audio and video on OSX

[iamcaper]

This will probably seem like a simple question for you experts out there but I can't seem to find exactly what I'm looking for. I'm trying to author a DVD in OSX using a separate audio and video track. The Audio is an AIFF which I've converted to AC3 using ffmpegx 0.0.9q (is this okay?) The video itself was done in After Effects because it was composited there (it's animation). I've output the video from After Effects using the Quicktime Animation Compressor. The composition itself is a 720x486 D1/DV NTSC (0.9) format. I'm currently trying to convert this to MPEG2 using ffmpegx 0.0.9q (is this okay?)

Is everything I've done so far okay and if so where do I go from here? I have Sizzle but I'm not sure it will do what I want. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[pants]

is there any reason you can't add the audio to your ae comp and render it out with audio? or add the audio to the rendered movie in qt pro or fcp, then just use ffmpegx to make a dvd from the movie with audio and video together?

[iamcaper]

I haven't tried either FCP or QT Pro as of yet but the reason I can't add the audio in AE is that I need a final output which is good enough for television and I can't seem to get the quality I'm looking for. Even using a 48Hz 16 bit stereo WAV file doesn't seem to cut it, the audio seems to be low if that makes any sense.

If I add the audio in FCP can I get a lossless output from it so that I can burn with Toast?

[TugBoat]

Your posts are a little confusing as to the origin of the tracks. There is nothing wrong with having 'separate' tracks unless one of the track's duration is altered during some intermediate process. You can separate a movie's tracks, run the video thru ffmpeg, the audio through Peak and A.Pack, then mux them in DVDSP, Sizzle, Toast, ffmpegX, or whatever, and it will be fine. As long as the original tracks worked fine together, the finished product will work fine together. People do it all the time. I do it all the time. I don't use AE however, and have no idea what you're changing there. If you change the duration of the video in AE without the audio being present, then you're going to have problems. Have you finished the m2v encoding yet and tried it?

[pixeljammedia]

I agree with tugboat. As long as the synch and timing is correct in your aiff, then simply use ffmpeg to encode your video to an mpeg2 .m2v and multiplex (mux) your audio and video together. ffmpeg has a multiplexer in the tools section, use the "mux as" button. Sizzle will allow you to input an m2v and an ac3, mux it together and will do a final output of a VIDEO_TS folder. You can use many different programs including placing the original rendered comp and pasting the aiff into it in Quicktime, and then outputting an mpeg with .mp2 audio. (assuming you have the mpeg2 codec from either iDVD or DVDSP.

[iamcaper]

okay, let me see if I can explain myself a little better without giving everything away. I have a mastered audio AIFF that we've done an animated video for so I have a separate audio and video track. I need to get from what I have (AE composition and an AIFF audio track) to what I want (combined, and in sync, music video).

I have tried using FFMPEG but the sync to create the M2V and the AC3 but when I create the disk image in Sizzle the sync is off.

[TugBoat]

OK, try and find were you lose sync. You say you have FCP, import the AIFF and 720x486 D1/DV NTSC and drag them to the timeline. Are they in sync? BTW, D1/DV is 720x480, I don't know how you came up with 486, but it will cause problems down the road. At some point you're going to have to change that to 720x480. For now, just see how the sync is. Also, FCP will export many different audio formats, for lossless you simply export as AIFF.

[pixeljammedia]

I would use iMovie. Import the video and aiff file and get them in synch. Do not move your video, but slide the audio back and forth until it matches the action. Export the synched soundtrack by going to file>share>Quicktime>expert settings>sound to aiff. Create your new ac3 using the new aiff and then mux.

[iamcaper]

Thanks for your help but I do have a few more questions:

1 - should I import the video into FFMPEG to encode it and then import the audio into FFMPEG to convert it to an AC3? I can't do them both together correct? This means I'm still left with separate files?

2 - If I use a 48Hz 16 bit stereo WAV file in AE will the quality be good enough for television (Much Music) if I output it "with" the video track and then burn it to DVD using Toast? I've done this already and the video seems fine and there are no hiccups in the audio but I want to make sure it will sound okay before I send it to Much Music.

[TugBoat]

Still strokin' huh
Well, if this is going to be a 'Professional' DVD. I would recommend using FCP/Compressor for the redering/encoding/etc. FCP 4 comes with a MPEG2 Encoder called Compressor which is meant for projects such as this.

It's slower than ffmpegX or Toast, it doesn't encode at Half D1, it doesn't look good at very low bitrates, but, it looks great at higher bitrates which is what you'll be using. I've also found that the ffmpegX MPEG2 encodes can contain errors in the stream that doesn't bother me, but may bother the people you send that Disc to

I really haven't tested ffmpegX encodes at higher bitrates, 'cause when I encode at a High bitrate, I use the Apple MPEG2 encoder.

Most of us around here don't do 'Professional'...

Load the AE tracks into FCP 4.5, doctor your audio the way you want, then use the Export 'using compressor' option. Then you get to choose your compression settings in Compressor. You then drag the Compressor M2V and AIFF into the Video window of Toast. I wouldn't compress the audio to AC3 unless you have a space problem.
Good Luck.

[iamcaper]

Tugboat, thanks for all your help, it's greatly appreciated. I just hope it helps an Indi band which will in turn help me. hehe

[pixeljammedia]

Muxing or multiplexing is the joining together of the audio and video to form a single file. That is what I have been telling you to do for two posts now. Your only objection was that they weren't in synch, so I asked you to use iMovie to synch up the audio first before you multiplex the original video file you encoded in ffmpeg and the new aiff file. I would not convert it to ac3 because DVD players can accept the .aiff audio and since that is the format of CD quality audio you should be fine. So to sum up:

use iMovie to shift your audio around until it is in synch. Do so without moving the video so you will not have to export it. When it is in synch export the audio to a new file.

Create an m2v using an encoder. FFMPEG is okay, consensus seems to be that Compressor does the best job at the highest bitrates. If you only have ffmpeg then use that.

Use the ffmpeg tools section to multiplex your new synched audio to your encoded m2v. click on the tool tab, click browse in the video tools section and select the video, and repeat for the audio. Pull down the menu next to the button that says "mux as" and select DVD. Click on the mux as button and let it create your mpeg.

Now open up Toast, drop it into the video tab with dvd selected and let it create the dvd struvture for you and then burn.

[iamcaper]

Again, thanks for your help gang. Pixeljammedia, it's not that I wasn't paying attention to you, it's just that I was trying to get as much info as I could and I was sort of putting the cart before the horse. I'm currently trying what you've posted and I will let you know from there. I just need to make sure that what I deliver is of the best quality possible because once it leaves my hands for transfer to Betacam I'm no longer in control.

Thanks again for your help. Once the video makes it to air I'll announce what it is. Until then, if I have further questions I'll be back.

Cheers

[rumplestiltskin]

Is everything I've done so far okay and if so where do I go from here? I have Sizzle but I'm not sure it will do what I want. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Recommend you try Mpeg2Works which may be found here: http://www.gemini3.co.yu/tosa/mpeg2works/

The tools provided within this app can do amazing things. There's also a forum available at the link given above. The author is extremely responsive (as are other users of his software).

Good luck!

[iamcaper]

Okay, here's the latest. The audio and video were imported into imovie where there were no sync problems so I exported the audio as a new AIF file. Then, using FFMPEGX I attempted to MUX the audio(AIF) and video(M2V) files together but the process was so quick I had to check the info window which showed that the AIF file was unrecognizable. So, I attempted, for fun, to convert the AIF file to an AC3 but neither the original AIF or the new AIF was recognized by FFMPEGX (I know this because there was no file info showing in the info window and no file was created upon an encode attempt). So, I used this MPEG2 Works to convert the AIF to a 48Hz MP2 and retried MUXing the files together. This was successful in MUXing the files together but when I tried to creat a disc image to test before burning in Toast I kept getting an I/O error. I then tried Sizzle to create the disc image which worked but when I mounted the disk image the video lasted for about 20 seconds and then froze and the audio kept going. The 20 seconds of video I did have was no longer in sync.

Doesn't FFMPEGX support AIF files? If not I will have to convert the AIF to another format which I'm concerned with for chance of lost quality.

Please help.....

[iamcaper]

If it helps, here is the software I'm using:

Toast Titanium 6
ffmpegx 0.0.9q
Sizzle 0.5.0b2
AE 6.0
imovie 4.0.1
Quicktime 6.5.2

[iamcaper]

If I were to upgrade to Toast and Jam that would solve the problem correct?

Anybody?

[Frobozz]

This shouldn't be so hard. You did mention in the first post that the format you exported was 720x486. Is that a typo? Was it really 720x480?

Toast can accept separate streams very nicely. Drag the m2v to the Toast video window and it will either automatically find the audio or ask you for it. The problem you've recently reported suggests a problem with the encoding of the video stream.

Getting Jam with your Toast merely gives you the added ability to have Toast encode the AIF file to Dolby Digital (and to give you the DVD Music Albums feature). You don't need this for the problem you're trying to solve.

Do be sure to use Toast 6.0.7 and Quicktime 6.5.2.

[iamcaper]

Frobozz, thanks for your reply.

I think the problem lies in the fact that I'm using separate audio and video tracks because I can't get the audio quality I want out of After Effects but I also can not get the desired effect out of FFMPEGX. This is why I suggested purchasing Toast with Jam which should eliminate my audio woes. I feel pretty stupid with all these posts.

[TugBoat]

No, ffmpegX doesn't do AIFF. It does WAV. Wasn't your original audio, from AE, WAV? Isn't that what you loaded in iMovie? And said the sync was fine... So, we're back to wondering why the operation in your first post was out of sync.

What happened to FCP?

At this point, you said you authored the WAV with what I assume was the ffmpegX M2V in Toast and it was fine? The WAV produced by AE is supposed to be of the same quality as an AIFF. I think you mentioned audio level as your complaint against the WAV? If that's the case, just open the WAV in an Audio editing App, like PEAK, SPARK ME, or whatever, and normalize it. If you have a decent Audio editor, you could do further enhancements to your audio. Just don't change the duration! And no, Jam will not help this. Then toss the M2V and WAV back into Toast and see how it looks.

I'm just wondering what settings you used to create the ffmpegX M2V. You did make it 29.97fps right? It HAS to be 720x480 or you will have problems with playback on Set-Top DVD Players. If you want to see if it has the errors I was talking about, run the M2V back through ffmpegX with the same settings as before and see what pops up in the info window. If nothing pops up, then it's fine, use the original M2V with a clear conscious :P

[iamcaper]

Okay, I think I finally have it but I'm re-outputting now to make sure. Here's what I had to do to get Dolby quality:

1 - export video composition from AE at D1/DV NTSC without the audio and with the Quicktime Animation lossless codec

2 - import the rendered Quicktime and the digital master of the AIFF audio into imovie

3 - export both as a lossless Quicktime

4 - purchase Toast with Jam for it's Dolby capability

5 - import and burn.

Thanks to all for your help.