How to address anti-copy (Macrovision) errors

[lordsmurf]

NOTE: This is not really a "restoration" topic, but I've quickly covered it anyway, as it's sure to come up. Posts concerning anti-copy should be confined to the CAPTURING forum (or DVD RECORDER forum if using DVD RECORDER).


Anti-copy is something studios put onto commercial VHS and DVD releases. It is an artificial error injected into the video stream, meant to confuse VCRs, DVD recorders and capture cards. It's there on purpose. Macrovision is merely one of the companies that makes an anti-copy algorithm (actually, they have 3 of them).

The unfortunate side-effect is this detection in VCRs/recorders/cards may be too strong, or it can confuse the artificial error with geniuine errors on unprotected tapes. This is the reasoning for this post.

This cannot be restored. Not in software, not with hardware. This is something that must be overcome DURING the capture process. You need one of three things to defeat anti-copy (or genuine errors that look like anti-copy).

1- A standalone full-frame timebase corrector (TBC). This is a flawless method. A full-frame TBC removes a portion of the signal and replaces it with a new one created by the TBC. Anti-copy and other similar errors reside in that part of the signal. Problem solved. About $200-300+
2- A "remover" or "enhancer" device. These are not flawless, but many tend to work a majority of the time. About $50-100+
3- A card/recorder/VCR that ignores that part of the signal. There are not many to choose from, and often the card/recorder/VCR is of lower/mediocre video/audio quality.

Do one of these 3 things to fix your situation.
Again, this is really more of a CAPTURE problem, not a restoration issue.


Samples:

Image as it SHOULD be:


Image with false anti-copy error ruining it:

[lordsmurf]

Cheap clarifier/stabilizer/remover list:
- http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/
- http://www.sonel.com/
- http://www.stardevelopment.com/videomagicdvd.htm
- http://www.220-electronics.com/dvd/copyenhancer.htm
- http://www.teleshop.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/macrem.htm

I DO NOT GUARANTEE ANY OF THESE WORK.
I DO NOT GUARANTEE THESE STORES ARE TRUSTWORTHY.
This is JUST for your reference on what exists.

This thread is here to help you remove that over-protective nagging/corruption on VCRs, DVD recorders, and capture cards that sees protection where none actually exists (degraded homemade VHS tapes). These products are sometimes known to remove the problem, but add in others. Again, a FULL FRAME TBC is the best option, not these things.

[myfogin]

I just got one of these in the mail yesterday. 8)

Took about 2 minutes to hook up and has worked flawlessly on the few VHS tapes I tried last night (all retail macrovision tapes) Panny 85 dvr would not record when unhooked.

Noticed no loss in detail etc at all.

I don't see what you could get to do a better job at that price !!!

[MrMoody]

I just got one of these in the mail yesterday.

Which one did you get & where? Smurf's link is dead.

[myfogin]

http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer.html

I got the stabilizer

link works fine for me

[funkguy4]

woah, i just looked @ the link for that, and the picture looks exactly like one that i have lying around somewhere from the early nineties...except mine takes batteries, not external power, meh.

[MrMoody]

woah, i just looked @ the link for that, and the picture looks exactly like one that i have lying around somewhere from the early nineties...except mine takes batteries, not external power, meh.

Link working now, must have been DNS. I've got an old one that looks exactly like that too. Note it still mentions the battery on the cover. It must not be the same though, 'cos mine didn't work worth a crap. Later I bought a Sima SCC that DID work. Then sold it on Ebay because I never used it. Now I wish I still had it for capturing ... oh well. It softened the picture anyway.

[Marvingj]

Great Post!!!

[fmctm1sw]

3- A card/recorder/VCR that ignores that part of the signal. There are not many to choose from, and often the card/recorder/VCR is of lower/mediocre video/audio quality.

Excellent post as usual. I'll add my cheapo wintv card (I may debate the mediocre part though, it works fine for me) has never given me a problem with copy protection and I've backed up many of my VHS stuff (even Disney tapes). I think you can use BTTool to change the agc settings in your BT based card as well. For the electronically inclined, I've also seen VCRs torn apart and components changed.

*edit* Wow, I just noticed there is now a "restoration" forum. Cool.

[youngblood]

Does a good TBC take care of the whole problem with Macrovision or do you need a stabilizer also...

Thanks
YB

[qkholland]

...1- A standalone full-frame timebase corrector (TBC). This is a flawless method. A full-frame TBC removes a portion of the signal and replaces it with a new one created by the TBC....

I have one question. Does Line 21 closed captioning survive being passed through TBC?

[lordsmurf]

Does a good TBC take care of the whole problem with Macrovision or do you need a stabilizer also...

Thanks
YB

TBC does it all.

[gshelley61]

I have one question. Does Line 21 closed captioning survive being passed through TBC?

Unfortunately, I don't think the closed captioning signal is retained after processing with a full frame TBC... anyone know for sure?

[nixie]

There were plans for a Macrovision scrubber in the old Radio-Electronics magazine back in the 1980s. It was an analog type circuit that removed the Macro pulses without removing line 21 or any of the usual information in the vertical blanking interval. It only removed the Macro pulses and not the color-stripe encoding. Also, it didn't remove the CGMS signal.

[BKL]

When converting my old VHS tapes, I use the pass-through feature of my Sony digital camcorder to ignore the Macrovision signal and convert the VHS analog video to DV for Firewire input to my PC. Provides great conversion performance. My ADVC-300 won't work with Macrovision tapes.

[mysticdx]

the bottom picture in that guys post dos that when im editing on 2 vcr's one is sanyo vwm-950 and the other is a panasonic that i buyed in 98. i use the panasonic just for play but you can already see that type of ripple effect in the picture. but there nothing wrong with my sanyo so im try to go buy another one just like it. i can't buy big dvd recorders right now i just buy a bit at a time.

[jolo]

http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer.html

I got the stabilizer

link works fine for me

I just looked at the card, priced right, etc.

But it says in the notes that it will not work with any type of ATI All In Wonder card.

I have a ATI 9600XP AIW card, so I'm out with that unit. I did send them a email wondering why there would be a problem.

Jon

[bgclarke]

I am considering getting a PVR (SA8300 SD) as well as a DVD recorder.

Question #1
When reading the manual for the PVR, I noticed that it has input jacks on the front of the unit. I was curious to know if anyone has tried using this PVR as a way to remove MV when transferring commercial VHS tapes (which I legally own) to DVD.

Question #2
I notice that when I send video signals through my HT receiver (Panny SA-HT400), the images shown on the TV are brighter than when they are sent directly to the TV. I'm assuming that some sort of video post-processor is at work here. So, if I pass the VHS A/V signals through my HT receiver and route the "VCR Out" from the HT receiver to the DVD recorder, could that be a way to remove the MV encoding?

I'd have to try to be sure, but I am curious if either of these methods have been tried before.

[R55B]

Re: Macrovision errors in analog transfer....
JVC, Sony and Panasonic VHS and S-VHS Duplicators will permit you to record your favorite media without interferance from the applied algorithm signal. There is a manual AGC (on/off) setting for that either internally, or on the control panel of the machine. Good for mixing music videos to movie footage, creating montages, etc. Plus, there is no loss of video quality in the record mode. Once the media is duplicated, it can then be digitised. Software for bypassing errors cannot equal the hardware fix.

[vhelp]

@ LS

In my struggles w/ MV, I found that bumping down to a lower
grade capture card, proved perfectly acceptable results, and
I now incorporate my ATVW_VE card below, in my capture setups.

Perhaps adding in this tid-bit to your list may help some..

Other ATI cards based on the BTxxx chip, such as my
ATI-TV Wonder VE card. It uses the FUSION 878 chip.

And, my ATI-TV Wonder pci (other pc) used the Connectix chip.

Both these cards show absolutely no Macrovision. Just clean
video

-vhelp 3581

[R55B]

[b]RE: Dated ATI VE

<In my struggles w/ MV, I found that bumping down to a lower
grade capture card, proved perfectly acceptable results, and
I now incorporate my ATVW_VE card below, in my capture setups.>

You should describe your software load for these old cards. Dated software can be overridden by an autoupdate. Are you running the VE card without Rage software present on your machine? Or just the old drivers? Many probably have never heard that the VE or TV wonder can beat MV's. Please elaborate.

[vhelp]

fwiw..

To date, I have not been able to capture tapes with MV writen on them
through my ATI Rage Fury Pro capture/graphics card, which is using the
WDM drivers.

I have done many countless re-installations of my AT Rage Fury Pro card,
and my ATI-TV Wonder VE capture card and in every installation, no sign
of Macrovision from the VE card. The drivers I am using on the card are
those from my VE 's ATI installation disk.

Remember, the VE has the BT8x8 chip [Fusion 878] and also, is driven by
the VFW driver, not the wdm driver. And, all my MV writen tapes run
through the VE perfectly without any sign of MV anywheres

-vhelp 3582

[R55B]

RE: ATVW_VE Capture Card

Gotcha. But I see you have 3 cards in use. How do you switch between the three? Please reply! Thanks.

[vhelp]

>> Gotcha. But I see you have 3 cards in use. How do you switch between
>> the three? Please reply! Thanks

Simple. During my MV testing, and using more than one ATI capture card..

Inside my capture software, there is an option item you pulldown and
select what "capture driver" you want to use. This can vary from
capture software to capture software.. and may not be the same menu item
or tab item, or whatever/whereever it is placed.

I am able to test for MV in a multi-capture card system by ...

For example.. in avi_io, the menu item, "Devices" gives the user a
choice of "capture drivers" to use in a given capture. If you have two
capture cards, then you'll see two choice, for instance. In my case,
my two (actually, three, I have my DC10+ card too) ATI show up as,

** Studio DC10 ------------------ [is my DC10Plus card]
** MSVIDEO: brooktree ----------- [is my VE card]
** Microsoft WDM image capture -- [is my Rage Fury card]

-vhelp 3585

[R55B]

Thanks vhelp. I might try going the VE route to give my Duplicator a rest. I've never seen a dual capture card setup (everyone I know tries glitchy software).

[thecoalman]

This cannot be restored. Not in software, not with hardware. This is something that must be overcome during the capture process, and is best discussed in the capturing forum. You need one of three things to defeat anti-copy (or genuine errors that look like anti-copy).

LS seems to me this is a little confusing, particualarly the first sentence. Iknow it's the restoration forum but if your reading this and are a noob you may think you are refferring to the tape before it's captured. I'd just remove it all together.

I'd also add an addendum to #3, Note: MV errors can be overcome on some cards by particualar drivers or other techniques. Off the top of my head the Nvidia VIVO card MV can be deafeated with drivers olader than 1.08, then of course there's the canopus "button hack"...

[lordsmurf]

This is just an overview, doesn't need to get too detailed. Suffice to say, anybody wanting to learn more about certain cards, or even their own card ignorning anti-copy, then they should post about it in the capturing forum..

Cards can be fixed by drivers. Hardware can be altered. Firmware altered. Or it just comes that way in hardware.

DVD recorders have the same thing. hardware can be firmware updated, hardware altered, special remote codes, or it just comes that way. Questions about DVD recorders should be put in the DVD record forum.

VCRs are usually just old. Some have full TBCs embeded, high end ones, not many. VCR questions probably good in restoration or capturing forums, either way.

[snafu099]

ADS Instant Dvd 2.0 ignores MV out of the box, highest quality A/V

[wendle]

When converting my old VHS tapes, I use the pass-through feature of my Sony digital camcorder to ignore the Macrovision signal and convert the VHS analog video to DV for Firewire input to my PC. Provides great conversion performance. My ADVC-300 won't work with Macrovision tapes.

How do you hook your camcorder up to your VHS player? Via S-video?? How is this possible if you don't have an S-video connection on your VCR? Because I don't and this is how I want to convert stuff.

[R55B]

wendle:

A vcr without an Svideo input is like a tv with rabbit ears. Try looking on ebay for a JVC HRS 7xxxu or 9xxxu (editing vhs/svhs models), that will permit you to line in via Svideo, RCA three position, coax and even 4mm camcorder ("cable box"). The expense is justified by the fact that you can, with JVC, record 400 lines of horizontal resolution on a cheaper VHS tape. You still need to use the camcorder as a pass-through device to foil macrovision, whether you record to a vcr or PC. Or, buy a full frame time based corrector.

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=139&howtoselect=9;47#139

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=634&howtoselect=9;53#634