Ripping DVD's-Tech quests-DL,compress,re-encode,etc

[Booger]

Thanks to all of you guys, I have become adept at ripping DVD's with very good results for some time now.

I have a few areas that I need clarification on as I'm not crystal clear on them:

1) Up until yesterday (while reading some posts here related to Popcorn, etc) I came to the understanding that all comm'l DVD's that show up in MTR as being > 4.4GB in size are actually Dual Layer DVD's (DVD-9's).
Prior to this I was under the impression that movies > 4.4GB in size were some how "compressed" and in addition to decrypting them, MTR was also decompressing them. Duh, huh?

2)If in fact all movies on DVD ( > 4.4GB in size) are on Dual Layer DVD's, wouldn't we notice a significant improvement in resolution/picture quality if we backed them up to DL DVD's (DVD-9's) as opposed to compressing to 4.4GB DVD's? (I realize DL DVRs only recently became available)
In other words, is using DVD2oneX (and now Popcorn) sort of the "poor mans" way of duping a DVD (because we're taking a picture quality hit when we re-encode and compress the files (say 8 GB) in order to fit it onto a regular 4.4GB DVD)?

3) How many re-encodes are occurring when we make a backup copy of a movie ( > 4.4gb in size)?
Does MTR do a "re-encode" or is it simply taking all the "raw" data and simply decrypting it, etc.?
When we then run it thru DVD2OneX, aren't we re-encoding it AND compressing it (or am I confusing the two)?

4) Since we are "compressing" the movie when we run it thru DVD2oneX or Popcorn is some of the data being "dropped out" of the original file (frames dropped out and/or decreasing the vbr) OR are we truly compressing the files which are then de-compressed via some sort of MPEG2 decompressor that exists within our DVD players connected to our TV's, etc.???

5)Finally, if I were to remove my flashed internal Pioneer DVR106 from my iMac 20" and replace it (or get an external) Pioneer (?) Dual Layer DVR drive... Would I be getting significantly better results when say I made backup copies of my new Star Wars DVD's (as opposed to the existing ones that were made with the non-dual layer DVD capable DVR106)?

If I am correct in my understanding of Question #1, wouldn't it be smart to begin burning Dual Layer DVD's to maximize the quality of the backup copies we rip (taking into account the higher cost of both getting the new DL DVR as well as higher media costs (DL DVD+R's)?

OR

Does the current compression/re-encoding that occurs when we use DVD2One/Popcorn do such a great job that the end result is so visually insignificant there is no real need to go the Dual Layer route for backup copies?

Just trying to understand the process better (especially the best way to make a backup copy in the most "lossless" way possible).

TIA, I really look forward to Galactica, Wiseweasel and Geezerbuttz (to name but a few) sharing their 2¢ on this one.
Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to create ripping software, instructions, and sharing all of your knowledge regarding all this DVD stuff for mac - many many of us would be completely lost without all of your contributions! Booger

[Frobozz]

You've been satisfied with the picture quality of your backups until you learned that they are lesser than the original. You think you might want to buy another $100+ DVD drive and $10+ media so you can make exact duplicates of the originals. Using Star Wars Trilogy as your example, you are considering spending a few hours ripping and copying a $50 boxed set to $40+ of media that is much more fragile than the original. If one disc becomes a coaster you will have spent more on the copy than what the purchased set cost.

The new 2-disc Harry Potter can be purchased for $15. This means it would save you $5+ dollars to buy two copies than to make a dual-layer backup.

I understand that people sometimes make backups of their DVDs so their kids don't damage the originals. But I really think the kids won't mind the small loss of picture quality from compressing the movie to single-layer media. And when I want to watch the movie, I'll pop in the original.

[galactica]

Save schmave, you still have to buy the copy you are backing up..... oh wait, or are you "backing up" for real?!?!?

[willrob]

MTR is only decrypting the DVD so it can be copied.
DVD2OneX is recompressing it to fit on a 4.3G DVD-R (Popcorn also does this).
Yes, the picture quality of the Pioneer 108 DL disk (with no recompression) will be better that craming the data onto a 4.3G DVD-R, but the cost of the drive (under $90 for internal) and the media ($10 per disk!) will cause one to appreciate the quality of DVD2OneX's output.
In the future, as the costs of media drop, a DL writer will be the way to go. For now, it is a costly solution. The time you save by not re-compressing the data is another factor to consider.

[MacDSL]

I thought Set-Top DVD players would not play burned DL DVD's yet. is there a player (besides the computer) that will play these?

[AntnyMD]

I have a Sony and a Philips, and they both played DL media without any issues.

[chikanakan]

As long as the DL booktype is set to DVD-ROM, most players can play the disc, as well as the Mac. If the booktype is set to DVD+R DL, then the compatibility is much lower on Set-top players and the Mac. Mac 10.3.6 is required for the DL booktype to work.

The Pioneer and Lacie DL drive set the booktype to ROM. Sony sets it to DL as do most other drives.

[galactica]

2)If in fact all movies on DVD ( > 4.4GB in size) are on Dual Layer DVD's, wouldn't we notice a significant improvement in resolution/picture quality if we backed them up to DL DVD's (DVD-9's) as opposed to compressing to 4.4GB DVD's? (I realize DL DVRs only recently became available)
In other words, is using DVD2oneX (and now Popcorn) sort of the "poor mans" way of duping a DVD (because we're taking a picture quality hit when we re-encode and compress the files (say 8 GB) in order to fit it onto a regular 4.4GB DVD)?

Of coarse. Problem is this ability has only been avaliable for a short time now and not everyone can afford to shell out $10/disk for every movie they backup because well you might as well just buy a 2nd copy of the movie you are backing up.

"poor mans way" - you could say that. But it use to be the ONLY way, so it all depends on when you ask the question. If you can afford to spend $1,000 to get a 100 pack of dual layer dvd's then by all means knock yourself out. Personally ill pay $50 and keep compressing Besides, these are just backup's afterall. I still have the source dvd in full quality since I am just backing them up - Right?!

3) How many re-encodes are occurring when we make a backup copy of a movie ( > 4.4gb in size)?
Does MTR do a "re-encode" or is it simply taking all the "raw" data and simply decrypting it, etc.?
When we then run it thru DVD2OneX, aren't we re-encoding it AND compressing it (or am I confusing the two)?

MTR doesnt re-encode anything it merely copies the "raw" data and simply decrypts it.
Are we "re-encoding" with dvd2one? NO. If we were it would take a LOT longer than the 15-20 min that dvd2one takes.

4) Since we are "compressing" the movie when we run it thru DVD2oneX or Popcorn is some of the data being "dropped out" of the original file (frames dropped out and/or decreasing the vbr) OR are we truly compressing the files which are then de-compressed via some sort of MPEG2 decompressor that exists within our DVD players connected to our TV's, etc.???

Its dropping out frames and/or changing bitrates. DvdRemaster is one app i am aware of that will actually re-encode but again that process takes a lot longer than teh 15-30 min that dvd2one uses to "process"

5)Finally, if I were to remove my flashed internal Pioneer DVR106 from my iMac 20" and replace it (or get an external) Pioneer (?) Dual Layer DVR drive... Would I be getting significantly better results when say I made backup copies of my new Star Wars DVD's (as opposed to the existing ones that were made with the non-dual layer DVD capable DVR106)?

Of coarse, you are talking compressed vs non compressed dvd.
Equal copies to source dvd or compressed copy. The answer is quite clear.

[schmeg]

With the price of 4.4 GB discs so low, I'm now more likely to back-up a large movie over two discs, rather than scrunch everything down to one disc.

DVD2OneX has been absolutely brilliant at backing up >4.4 GB discs, but every once in a while something just won't compress without a distracting drop in quality.

Although I have a dual-layer burner, I'm much more inclined to just split that movie over two cheapo single-layer discs. I get original picture quality, save money on the back-ups, and have a built-in excuse to hit the fridge at the "intermission"!

[macuser25]

Although I have a dual-layer burner, I'm much more inclined to just split that movie over two cheapo single-layer discs. I get original picture quality, save money on the back-ups, and have a built-in excuse to hit the fridge at the "intermission"!

You should consider Popcorn... it gives you the flexibility of compressing to SL or writing to DL when you want to.

[thoughton]

Save schmave, you still have to buy the copy you are backing up..... oh wait, or are you "backing up" for real?!?!?

Don't even start