About Computer Programming...

[puertorican138]

Can you guys please tell me the things that I must do/study to become a computer programmer??? I really look at you guys as the geniuses of our society, IMO! What would be the 1st programming language that is recommended for a newbie to study??? Also, do/can cp's make more than like $55,000-$75,000 a year??? Can cp's become rich programming software for the average consumers and whatnot??? Is CP fun??? And in your opinion, and which method of c.p looks the coolest (games, software, etcetera...) or is the most hardest??? Is reading binary hard??? How do computer programmers spend their time, what do they usually like to program, and are cp's in high-demand in today's society??? Also, are there any books that teach you about the field of computer programming???

Sorry for asking SO MANY questions, I sure haven't been here in over 5 MONTHS!!!

[puertorican138]

Oh yeah, generally, how *smart* are cp's, because everytime I mention that I want to be one, people at school think that I'm some "genious" or whatnot, even though I AM in all the "smart" classes, hee hee??? Basically what I'm trying to convey is, are cp's really the *geniuses* that people think they are to be???

[RabidDog]

reading binary is very hard.
CP is NOT fun.
some CPs are in high demand. Most CP's are good at their job because they lack social skills ie they are introverted geeks.

[bugster]

Most CP's are good at their job because they lack social skills ie they are introverted geeks.

Speak for yourself :P
What do I do with my spare time, oh yeah, hang out here

Anyway, so you want to be a programmer, where do you start. IMHO, one of the 1st choices you have to make is what field of programming you want to be in, and there are more than most people realise. Examples include Windows apps, database programming, real-time and/or embedded sytems, defence or civil, OS development. And then you can specialise in games, 3d graphics, tools and utlities, video, device drivers or User Interfaces etc, the list goes on.

As to which language you need to learn 1st, that partly depends on the choice you made above. 'C' is suitable for quite a few areas but for others Visual Basic, C#, Java, SQL all may be valid choices.

How do you start. Books can help, but you really need to attend some sort of school/college course where they teach beginners programming in a suitable area. You will always run in to things that you need help with that a book can't provide.

Can programmers make good money, some do, others only make average 'white collar' type salaries, it all depends. Those that do are mostly older more experienced types that can offer good design, diagnostic and management skills alongside programming, not the less experienced code monkeys. You want to earn good money, start with a degree and then get lots of experience. By the time you have been in the job 10 years or more, you might be able to consider your income as 'good', if your lucky.

Are programmers in high demand? What skills have you got today and what is the current job market like. Like many skills areas, demand fluctuates, and probably more rapidly than many other areas. Currently it appears the the IT job market is seeing a slight rise after several years of low(ish) demand, but this will change. Which way I have no idea.

Does any of this help

[vandakeg]

Before jumping headfirst into programming in C, you might want to try a program called "QBasic" or "Basic". I don't even know if it's still around, but that's what I started on way back when.

IMO, Basic is a great tool to get you familiarized with the concept of programming. As a programming language, Basic is pretty much useless, but as learning tool it's immeasurable.

[Steve Stepoway]

An unpleasant warning: more and more "commodity" programming (by that I mean run of the mill programming) is being sent off-shore (India, lots of it; there are lots of English-speaking, well-educated Indians who can and will work for much less than people in the US can or will). Lots more jobs are going to H1B visa holders. I think there will always be niches where programmers in the US will be successful and in demand (I suspect the game industry is one), but I fear that the days of being a programmer automatically leading to career success in the US may be gone for good.

For a programmer to succeed career-wise in the future, I think you will need something more than programming skills to sell yourself.

[NightWing]

Programming just one small aspect of the job. Learning a language does not make you a programmer. Have met people that know different languages but cant build anything worthwhile from using the language. Simular to the difference of knowing a human language or using it like a native. IE do you know it or can you Think in it.

You need to be abble to solve problems and esp rotate the world to solve the problem. Esp under the worst possible situations and constraints.

Do you like making or building things? Pushing concepts or ideas to make it work. Taking some thing and changeing it to make it solve the problem. Ability to break down a problem into doable size. If no. Try something else. If you are not happy or driven to do this then do something else.

Note there are thousands of animators that can draw but only a few that are masters of it.

If you want a book to start in on go for Mythical Man Month. Even though it was written in the 60's concerning an IBM system its still very valid today.

[vhelp]

Seriously. You need to time-warp back to the early 80's, if you want to get
anywhere's. Todays programmers aren't what they used to be yesterday.
Everybody is doing the same thing, over and over and over again. There is *NO*
originality anymore. It's boring.

The only thing that programming is good for now-a-days (because there are already
tons of stuff out there already that someone (s) have already built) is for
those special projects (usually personal) that you need, or someone really
needs, and it's something w/in your grasp (knowledge) to obtain w/ your hands.
(build)

As Nightwing said, ..you need to speak the language to *REALLY* acomplish
anything. And that *anything* has to be "original". Not something that has
already been built.

C++ is the language of today. Personally, I don't like it, and I also believe
that we are pushed into it because those that know if complicatabiltiy (learning
curve) know that most who start out in it will fray away, sooner or later.
Like me
I'm more in tune w/ Delphi. As Nightwing said, ...you have to speak the
language. And this is *MY* language. I know enough of it to create something
real quick (if I need to) but I'm no Guru in it. Still lots of things I don't
understand, no doublt, thanks to OOPS, which scared the hell out of me back
when it first came out for Turbo Pascal (late 80's I think) right after ver 7
I think.
But I learned Pascal when I first got version 3.0 (on 5 1/2" disks) and in
a shrink-wraped book. That was the packaging back in the days. The *GOOD*
old days of mysteriousness of this field of programming

Every now and then, I get pretty rusty in Delphi, and I have to go searching through
the web for things. No shame. I'm lazy to spin my *own* wheels, when Its easier
to (simetimes) to find the answer(s) on the web. But then again, I have like,
tons of think-ass books to guide me through many fainting memeory of subroutines
and things.

A good book to pick up (if you can still find one around) is the WIN 32 API.
They have several version (mine was for Visual Basic) but you can use it for
any language, including Delphi) I got it because I wanted to gain knowledge in
BITMAPS and things (for my video endeavors) and I'm still wet behind the ears w/
this. But, it's a great book.. very thick too. Cost me $60 bucks. Oh yeah..,
books are expansive too. I've ben buying all my books since 1981 I think. And
some of them still *reek* of cigarett smoke (from when I used to smoke
like a chimny, back in the days - though I quick like about 15 years ago, cold
turkey.. speaking of.., ThanksGiving is comming up.. Goble-Goble)

I started out with many lanauges, but my main ones were Basic and Pascal.

Anyways..

Thats my two cents worth of my experience.

-vhelp

[bugster]

vhelp, you make some good points, but your view of the world is very PC centric. Many of the more interesting programming jobs are not for PC apps (as you say, its all been done before) but non-PC platforms such as real-time embedded systems or back-end server type stuff.

There is still fun (and money) to be had as a programmer, you just have to pick your field carefully.

[puertorican138]

Can one of you guys send me a program you created with your programming skillz?

[Ufit]

Maybe what I say will not be very encourageing but I would
suggest to start from Visual C++. There is a book called
"Teach yourself VC++ in 21 days". Once u get more advanced language
it won't hurt you to jump down to less advanced languages as VB or c#
which are almost the same. VC++ is for more demanding programs
and games. Also, u can learn HTML (XHTML...) because this has promising
future for sure. Just read books and practice all the time.
there are good websites
www.codeguru.com
www.codeproject.com
www.w3schools.com

[jimmalenko]

I started with VB, then dabbled with C/C++ and Java. In my line of work I do a lot of web HTML/ASP. I did a Bachelor of Computing degree at University with a major in programming. VB is pretty easy to learn so I would probably recommend starting with this.


Lately I have been working on incorporating batch functionality into ffmpeggui. Here's some screenshots:












All low-end stuff I know, but just about anything is possible.

[Sabro]

I've got a AAS (2 year) degree in CIS and have been programming since I was 13 (approx 21 yrs now).

First and foremost your gonna need a very good sense of LOGIC and dedication. Get your feet wet with 4th generation langs. Visual Basic is an excellent starting place and actually is very high in demand here in the midwest, since the learning curve is lower then other langs such as C/C++ and development time can be extreamly faster.

Payrates will differ depending on the areas you live and work in and what the industry needs. Again, Visual Basic and RPG (on AS/400) are highly sought after positions here in the midwest, where as C/C++ and others might be in more demand on the west coast.

It's a tough market out there, and really only the strong survive...Programmers tend to be very egotistical, most are *NOT* nerds from my expirences/co workers/etc... and deal with ALOT of BS from people wanting them to perform magic in a very limited amount of time.

Practice, grab sample code, learn from others, read read read....alot of times it's a very much RTFM area and there's an old saying in the field, "If ya don't understand the code....DON'T TOUCH IT". So alot of times your on your own....Scared yet? Try keeping these different langs seperated : VB, OS/JCL, VSE/JCL, RPG, Focus, COBOL, C/C++, ASM, MUMPS and ADA as well as a few DB's... long sleepless nights...

Sample works of mine can be found *somewhere* on my website listed somewhere within this msg, however can not be directly mentioned persay do to past yellow cards being issued.

Sabro

[puertorican138]

bump

[vhelp]

Some time last year, I created a utility for MUXing audio.



And, while visiting kvcd.net, I was into (of all things) bitrate calculations
Course, now I forgot everything My brain is gotten all kaka since.
Basically, it was a "sliders" type build. I wanted it to be as close as WYSIWYG
sort of fealing.
(See the bitrate change instantly, instead of having to click an
[OK] button to see the results) Anyways.



And, of course, there are many other utilties I created. But these mostly
just personal utilities one create when they are masters of a given language.
A thought will come to mine.. "..geeze.., I could rig up a tool to 'auto' that
or this or whater.." anyways.

-vhelp

[jimmalenko]

And, of course, there are many other utilties I created. But these mostly just personal utilities one create when they are masters of a given language.
A thought will come to mine.. "..geeze.., I could rig up a tool to 'auto' that
or this or whater.." anyways.

I hear ya. I've done the same - "hmmmm .... these 4 programs I need to use all accept command-line input - let's make a GUI that creates a batch file"

[puertorican138]

bumptastic

[jimmalenko]

bumptastic

So ......... the responses you've already received weren't enough, eh ?

[puertorican138]

bumptastic

So ......... the responses you've already received weren't enough, eh ?

No, master Jim!

[daamon]

Become a tester...

[puertorican138]

Become a tester...

A tester for what???

[daamon]

Oh dear.... You really are green behind the ears.

A tester of software, hardware, documents etc.

Find out about programing and you'll (hopefully) find that there's a whole army of unsung heroes who test what's been developed. And that's only a small part of it...

Look into the FULL "Development Lifecycle" - Starting with creating the documentation, through design, then coding, then the various stages of testing and, finally, releasing the system / application for use.