Getting started - Need to sort out programs

[daamon]

Hi tekkieman,

To clarify - When I typed that I was thinking of when I burn using Nero. In Nero "Start Smart" the option reads "Burn DVD-Video Files". Once selected, you're presented with the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS directories.

Similarly, when starting from Nero Burning ROM the correct choice is "DVD-Video". I was aiming to ensure that the right option was chosen when burning, rather than specifying a particular kind of desc to create.

Sorry if it was confusing or misleading.

Oh, and thanks for the positive feedback...

I've decided I shall probably write a guide that's more generic about the approach and process of home footage to DVD> It's early days yet, but I've got ideas and have had some initial input from a few people on the site. We'll see...

[Dr_Layne]

5. Burn and enjoy. GUI For DVD Author will have outputted 2 folders, AUDIO_TS (empty) and VIDEO_TS. Make a new data dvd in your favorite burning software (there are a lot of free ones on this site) and drag only those 2 folders onto it and burn. That's it!

Burning using a Data DVD format will not guarentee compatibilty in stand alone dvd players. The correct file format is UDF, and unless you use this file format, the disc may not be playable. One should always burn as a DVD Video using that option in your burning software. Nero requires you to select the correct type of disc, but some other apps may automatically burn as UDF when use the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders.

Steve Bennett

[tmh]

Okay, thanks again, all. I'll try getting through another step or 2 tonight. I'll buy that TMPENC Plus (sp??) for encoding and get that part done then try and make a DVD out of it. I was tempted to buy DVDSanta based on some favorable mentions in this forum, but I'm on board with the concept of individual programs for each step.

I read a whole bunch more last night here and I learned some things and got further confused on some, so if few more questions for those with patience.

1. OK, I see "codecs" all over the place and looked at the glossary and tools sections but still don't know how/if they apply to my situation of making a DVD from my DV camcorder. Are there codec "options" or just one for each type of conversion or source?

2. PAL/NTSC formats. Is one the standard in the USA? Do I need to be concerned with that? If so, which step addresses it?

3. DVDShrink - I see LOTS of folks using it here, but if I'm not trying to get more than 45 min-1 hr. of video onto a DVD do I need to use it (or something like it)?

4. Seperating the audi from the video. Does this apply to .avi files from a camcorder? If so, do I need to do it or is it another space issue on the DVD? Is it a different answer if I wanted to use a soundtrack audio without the sound from the camcorder?

5. Lastly, what is the difference between the terms "Rip" and "Burn" ? I see references to ripping where it seems to me they are at the Burn the DVD stage. (If that's the stupidest question of the day tell me - but pls answer anyways).

Thanks again guys. This is hands down the best forum I've been in for anything! Once I know what I'm doing I'll be here often trying to help the new folks! uh.....that's IF I ever know what I'm doing!

[daamon]

Hi tmh,

First of all...

...but I'm on board with the concept of individual programs for each step.

To your questions:

1. If you've captured your footage from your camcorder OK (which you have) then you've already got a DV codec installed. There are a number out there (Panasonic, Canopus, Mainconcept) but I've never read of any one outstanding one...

If you can play DVDs on your PC, then you've already got an MPEG2 codec installed - again, there's a number out there. The words "MPEG2 codec" are probably hyperlinked to one you can download from this site, should you need it. The codec covers video and audio.

WAV audio doesn't need a codec (compressor / decompressor) as it's not compressed.

After I installed ffmpeggui I don't recall needing to install a codec for AC3 audio - I think it's bundled with the ffmpeg part of the app. Anyways, you might find AC3 ACM Decompressor and / or AC3 Filter useful. Have a read to see what they do and decide.

2. USA = NTSC. Europe, Australia and (I think) places like Japan and that neighbourhood are PAL.

Basically, each one defines the specs for what makes a valid bit of footage (both video and audio compnents). It defines things like resolutions, audio frequencies and formats, framerate etc. Look under "What Is... DVD" (link, top left of the page) to compare PAL vs NTSC.

Those in PAL regions (definitely Europe) are fortunate to have VCRs, DVD players and TVs that can play both . Whereas in the US (not sure if it's all the NTSC regions) this is unlikely...

3. No, for 45mins - 1hr you won't need DVDShrink. You can tell by going to the VideoHelp Bitrate Calculator and putting 1 hour in - you'll see that the calculated bitrate = the max bitrate.

For full resolution DVDs (NTSC = 702 x 480) with a DV cam source, you don't want to go lower than around 5,000kbps (this is only rough, as it's only you who can judge at what point you start disliking the quality).

Put different running times in to see how many mins = what bitrate and then you'll find the maximum running time when it = 5,000 (as an example). This is assuming the default audio rate of 224kbps.

People who are making DVDs from home footage that then use DVDShrink either don't understand that they need to set the correct bitrate, or get it (slightly) wrong.

4. Probably. The audio on a camcorder is uncompressed. When it's recorded on to your PC it'll be in PCM (also known as WAV, or wave) format. The bitrate is 1,536kbps. Because it's uncompressed, it'll take up significantly more disk space leaving less room on the disk for the video. This means that you have to use a lower bitrate (assuming your footage is long enough to warrant using the whole disk). A lower bitrate may mean lower visible quality.

Try the bitrate calculator with 1,536 set for the audio - you'll see that just one hour of video means the video bitrate has to be reduced a little. But, at just over 8,000 that's still plenty (loads plenty - min around 5,000 remember) to have excellent quality.

As your in NTSC land (by the fact you asked about USA), you'll see from the specs that MP2 audio isn't listed as a valid audio format (whereas it is for PAL).

When using TMPGEnc Plus, if it encodes the audio you'll get it in MP2 format - not what you want. So you'll need to extract the audio from your DV AVI using VirtualDub to a WAV file.

Depending on the length of the video component, you'll then decide whether you need to encode to compressed audio (AC3 using ffmpeggui) or not (keeping it as a WAV).

If the DVD is for friends / family in a PAL region, no need to extract and have TMPGEnc encode to MP2.

5. Rip = Decode files from source disk to your hard drive.

If it's CD (i.e. music), they're not encrypted so it's a straight interpretation of what's on disk, write the same on your hard drive.

If it's DVD (video), they're probably encrypted and so need to be decrypted first.

It's important to note that you can't use Windows Explorer to just do a copy and paste for audio CDs or encrypted DVDs (though you can for unencrypted DVDs). This is the simplest method of copying. Because of the way the data is stored on CDs / (encrypted) DVDs you must "rip" them.

Burn = Putting ripped files to a CD / DVD of your choice in a format that means you can play them back. "Format" doesn't just mean file type, but also directory structure etc. (as in the two folders for DVD).

Thanks again guys.

No problem. I only learnt all this by those here helping me with similar questions - oh, and a heck of a lot of reading and experimenting.

This is hands down the best forum I've been in for anything!

I totally agree. You've got Baldrick (the site owner / administrator) to thank for that. As well as all the helpful souls who are a part of the community here.

Once I know what I'm doing I'll be here often trying to help the new folks!

A very commendable attitude - you'll go far here.

uh.....that's IF I ever know what I'm doing!

Oh, you will. Hell, I managed it! Though I'm still learning...

[Dr_Layne]

Okay, thanks again, all. I'll try getting through another step or 2 tonight. I'll buy that TMPENC Plus (sp??) for encoding and get that part done then try and make a DVD out of it. I was tempted to buy DVDSanta based on some favorable mentions in this forum, but I'm on board with the concept of individual programs for each step.

I read a whole bunch more last night here and I learned some things and got further confused on some, so if few more questions for those with patience.

1. OK, I see "codecs" all over the place and looked at the glossary and tools sections but still don't know how/if they apply to my situation of making a DVD from my DV camcorder. Are there codec "options" or just one for each type of conversion or source?

2. PAL/NTSC formats. Is one the standard in the USA? Do I need to be concerned with that? If so, which step addresses it?

3. DVDShrink - I see LOTS of folks using it here, but if I'm not trying to get more than 45 min-1 hr. of video onto a DVD do I need to use it (or something like it)?

4. Seperating the audi from the video. Does this apply to .avi files from a camcorder? If so, do I need to do it or is it another space issue on the DVD? Is it a different answer if I wanted to use a soundtrack audio without the sound from the camcorder?

5. Lastly, what is the difference between the terms "Rip" and "Burn" ? I see references to ripping where it seems to me they are at the Burn the DVD stage. (If that's the stupidest question of the day tell me - but pls answer anyways).

Thanks again guys. This is hands down the best forum I've been in for anything! Once I know what I'm doing I'll be here often trying to help the new folks! uh.....that's IF I ever know what I'm doing!

1. The Panasonic or the Canopus codec will work fine. Choose either one.

2. Use NTSC which is the format used in the USA. Most PAL players will play NTSC material but most NTSC players will not play PAL material. This is addressed in two stages, the encoding of the avi to mpeg, and the dvd authoring stage. Just make sure the settings are NTSC for whatever programs you are using.

3. You don't need DVD Shrink unless you made the final DVD project too large. Instead of starting from scratch, you can run it thru DVD Shrink to make the project fit on one DVD.

4. DV AVI uses 48khz 16bit PCM audio. When you encode the avi to mpeg2, you can choose to encode with mpeg audio, or pcm audio. PCM takes up a lot of space so less room for overal playing time. Mpeg audio isn't supported by many players in the USA. You can also convert the PCM audio to AC3 after you encode the mpeg2 video.

5. "Rip" is a term used to copy the contents of a DVD disc to the Hard Drive. "Burn" means to write to the blank DVD disc.

Steve Bennett

[Garibaldi]

Wow.. I was only away a few hours and I really feel like I'm out of the loop!

No problem - I'm glad it came across as it was meant - constructive. I hate those who say "This is the best way coz this is the way I do it".

For VHS to DVD, I can see why this might be a better option.

Good idea about using it as a "try out" approach...

Exactly, there is no best way, each person has a specific need, which is met differently than the needs of others.

Burning using a Data DVD format will not guarentee compatibilty in stand alone dvd players. The correct file format is UDF, and unless you use this file format, the disc may not be playable. One should always burn as a DVD Video using that option in your burning software. Nero requires you to select the correct type of disc, but some other apps may automatically burn as UDF when use the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders.

Really? I didn't know that! I haven't had a problem yet with data dvd but I guess I've just been lucky. Should I just use DVD Decryptor from now on to burn my dvds?

OK, I see "codecs" all over the place and looked at the glossary and tools sections but still don't know how/if they apply to my situation of making a DVD from my DV camcorder. Are there codec "options" or just one for each type of conversion or source?

As far as codecs, you have alot to choose from. Each is unique in its ability to balance quality verses compression. Personally I like the XviD codec because it has a high compression ratio and pretty good quality, plus its cross platform, which is good for me because I do video-editing in both windows and linux.

Thanks again guys. This is hands down the best forum I've been in for anything! Once I know what I'm doing I'll be here often trying to help the new folks! uh.....that's IF I ever know what I'm doing!

Thanks, that means alot!

[tmh]

OK, thanks so far. I've resolved the issue I thought I had with the capture quality - it's fine viewed on another computer so it had something to do with the monitor settings or something.

Now on to simple editing (cut parts out primarily). I'll download and try Virtualdub as many have recomennded on this site. Question: is this what I use to seperate audio and video also? Can I add a soundtrack with this program (for future use, not doing that now)?

Lastly, I see many references to "out of sync" audio and video on the site. Looks to me like it's a big issue. If I'm not looking to put too much on each DVD, would I be able to keep the audio as is and encode (Tmpgenc plus) all at once? Would that make sync problems less likely?

Thanks. Happy post-thanksgiving to all - especially those who help me!

[daamon]

Hi tmh,

Glad you're over one hurdle on the capture front...

...VirtualDub...is this what I use to seperate audio and video also?

Yes.

Can I add a soundtrack with this program (for future use, not doing that now)?

Yes. Though timing the audio to your scenes would be easy enough, a simple video editor might make it easier still... Something like Avid Free DV, or Zwei-stein - not used either, but write ups sound OK.

If you wanna do some fancy stuff, but not too difficult, look into BluffTitler and Wax 2. Again, not used 'em but they sound cool...

If I'm not looking to put too much on each DVD, would I be able to keep the audio as is and encode (Tmpgenc plus) all at once?

Yes - You could get about 1h30m of video with uncompressed audio (extracted WAV @ 1,536kbps). Or, about 2 hours with compressed MP2 audio at 192kbps from TMPGenc (you'd need to set the 192).

You could get more, but the bitrate would start getting low and you may compromise quality.

As you're in NTSC land - review the possible lack of support for MP2 (TMPGEnc's audio output). Use ffmpeggui to do WAV -> AC3 @ 192kbps.

Would that make sync problems less likely?

Yes. I do DV AVI to DVD and I've never had synch problems. I get the impression that these are more likely when converting VBR audio to MP2 / AC3, or when encoding strange formats or just plain doing tricky stuff. DV cam footage to DVD isn't tricky (in that sense).

Have a good weekend...

[tmh]

Well, I can't seem to get VirtualDub to open the avi file. It gives the following error message:

[!] Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown).
VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to
decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media
Player, are not suitable. Only 'Direct stream copy' is available for this
video.


I used the avi I captured with Ulead 5.0 and with WinDV. Neither works. I think this is a codec issue, but I'm still in the dark on what to do with "codecs".

I tried the free trial of DVDSanta and it took the files fine and created the DVD (on hard drive in the VIDEO_TS FOLDER - not burned as of yet) with no problems. Any idea why virtualdub won't load these avi files?

Thanks.

[tmh]

problem solved. I just saw a thread in "capture" forum and the Panasonic cedec took care of the problem. I'm back in business! I can now waste another day and feel good about it.

[daamon]

Hi tmh,

The Panasonic DV Codec would've been my answer if you hadn't been so (damn) resourceful and gone and found the answer yourself... .

Well done.

[freebird1963]

Hello,
Very good thread.
A couple of questions here to as a newbie.

I capture analog not DV so not sure if the comments I pasted below apply to analog as well. My capture program captures to mpeg. no choice for any other file format.

1. Capturing to MPEG "on the fly" (as this would be) is generally accepted to produce lower quality MPEGs than encoding with a (good) dedicated encoder. Potentioal / probable quality loss.

--- Why is that ? (if long answer don't worry about it , I was curious as to why it was)

2. MPEG is designed to be an "end product" format and so isn't best suited to any real editing - more than the trimming mentioned.

--- What do you mean by "any real editing"? Like frame by frame editing ?

I don't believe that transitions, even simple ones, are possible. And I dont think that additional audio track(s) can be added.

-- again not sure what this means. Do you mean transitions on the mpeg files or between two mpegs ?

Thanks for the insight.
MD

[daamon]

Hi freebird1963,

You signed up to this site on a great day - my birthday (not saying which year though... ).

Q1 It is generally accepted that capturing on the fly usually produces lower quality results because the the encoder can only do so much before it is being hit with the next lot of video for it to encode. Whereas, for a dedicated encoding application, it can take the next frame when it's good and ready.

The former is quicker but, in effect, a rush job. The latter is slower because it's taking it's time to do a better job.

Of course, there's probably exceptions under for certain circumstances and / or capture cards or hardware. Best to head over to lordsmurf's site www.digitalfaq.com, as he's into capturing big time and will have loads of stuff of interest to you.

Q2 - "Real" editing. By this I meant stuff like adding fades, transitions, slowing down / speeding up the footage. There's also things like overlaying one or more clips on to an existing clip, fading from black and white to colour (or vice versa). Then there's adding in extra audio tracks and sound effects etc. ...and the list goes on.

Q3 - A fade is a type of transition. A transition is where you gradually change from one scene or clip to another. Without transitions, clips and scenes would start and end harshly. Transitions are used for effect and to lessen the harshness of the scene change.

Example (picture this):
End scene 1: Camera tilts up to the sky, away from the subject.
Start scene 2: Camera is following a group of birds on close zoom, and zooms out (wide angle) to show, for example, a beach scene.

The transition could be a nice fade from the blue sky fading out (gradually disappearing), to the flock of birds fading in (gradually appearing) at the same time.

There you go. Hope that makes things clearer.