Piston-Pacers

[ViRaL1]

If you threw a cup of beer at someone on the street unprovoked and you got your ass beat, would anyone raise an eyebrow (provided you're not extremely disadvantaged)?

[glockjs]

it would have been really cool if shaq was there doin some shaq fu

[gastorgrab]

Well I am right, but I didn't say anything about a paper cup killing anyone.. although it probably could if someone tried to swallow it.

Isn't that what started the Pacers rampage in the crowd?

He actually handled the whole incident until the beer throwing very well. He didn't go back at Ben Wallace at all, he just walked away.

It was only a paper cup.

I agree with the previous poster "Its a good thing he didn't climb up into the cheap seats".

[CaZeek]

Gastorgrab, I'm not really sure what you're questioning in the last post? The plastic cup is what started the crowd rampage, yes. What I was saying was that whether or not an assault kills someone doesn't make it not an assault. That's the difference between assault and murder/manslaughter.

I don't know at all what you're saying about the second quote. I was referring to his dealing of the altercation with Ben Wallace there, which I thought he handled well in that he avoided a fight. Had the crowd incident not happened, he would not have even received a technical foul, and Ben Wallace would've been ejected.

I can't overemphasize that I agree he should not have gone into the crowd. Two wrongs don't make a right. All I'm saying is that there are "two" wrongs, and whether you're an out of shape fan or a professional athlete, you're still required to obey the same laws. NBA players aren't just characters on your TV set.. they're people. If you want to throw beer at them, stay home and throw it at your TV.

[gastorgrab]

It just looked like he walked away from Ben Wallace because he didn't want to get his ass kicked.

As for his self control, sticks and stones will break your bones, but paper cups will never hurt you.

He didn't even punch the right fan(s).

--------edit---------

The fans payed money to be there, that makes them the customer.

The Players are payed money to be there, that makes them the service provider.

Isn't the customer always right?

[CaZeek]

Ron Artest is pretty much one of the "toughest" players in the league. I'm not referring to his attitude, I'm referring to his build and strength... I really don't think he was scared of Ben Wallace, but who knows, you could be right. Whatever the reason was, he did the right thing.

Not that this is any justification, but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court. He was still wrong for grabbing any fans though, no argument here whatsoever.

From what I'm gathering though, you are saying that there was nothing wrong with the fan throwing a cup full of beer at him? We're all entitled to our own opinion, and I guess that's the one place where we differ.

[northcat_8]

No, but they're living in America where there is a legal system of rules in place.

So.....3 days in Jail and $100 fine for Assualt.....Hell, I'll start a collection for the fine and I'm sure the 3 days will be suspended.

Also in America, people have the right to defend themselves. A paper or plastic cup does not posess enough of a threat of bodily injury to justify a physical attack on the person who threw it.

I hope the NBA bans Artest for life, I hope he goes broke and I hope he freezes to death while sitting on the corner with a tin cup begging for change. And I hope Kobe Bryant is sitting beside him and that has nothing to do with the rape case.

Cazeek - if those two can kick pretty much anyone's ass that you know, then you need to get out more or apparently we run in completely different social structures. Cause I know some dudes that would....well never mind, we don't want to get into that type of debate.

I saw the play on Sportcenter, I saw Artest put his right forearm into the back of Ben Wallace. I agree, it wasn't a hard foul, but sometimes reputation preceeds you.

He didn't go back a Wallace because Ben would have kicked his ass lopsided. Hell even when Artest went into the crowd, he passed up the stacked up looking guy in the white and goes after the dude with glasses. Artest couldn't see who threw the cup, all he could see was the ceiling.

I haven't heard the albumn either but I'm going out on a limb. Name the last athlete who had a music career, and don't say Shaq, he can't rap either.

Come on, give me a break...Artest has been a punk since the first day he walked into the NBA. Cheap shot intentional fouls, throwing cameras, acting like a punk. That's the reason I don't watch the NBA. I use to watch it, back in the days of Larry and Magic (grew up in the 70's) and even up through Michael but now....there's just a bunch of punk street ballers getting paid. You got Kobe in LA, on the same team with Shaquille O'Neil and thinking he's the man. ANYONE who is playing with Shaq is not the man. Shaq is the man. Michael, Magic, Doc, Larry, and a few others may have been the man if playing with Shaq...but Kobe isn't them.

I use to play ball in Dayton with a dude named Marcus who is 6'6" 260 or so pounds that would knock Artest or anyone else straight the **** out, if Artest was to foul him as flagrantly as he has occasionally in the NBA. The law on the play ground or at the Y is play hard, but NO ONE is putting up with any bullshit. And that's all Artest is...BULLSHIT.

[ViRaL1]

The fans payed money to be there, that makes them the customer.

The Players are payed money to be there, that makes them the service provider.

Isn't the customer always right?

If you have free time some weekend, go to your local bar / strip club and throw a cup of beer at the biggest bouncer you can find. You'll find out just how wrong the customer can be.

[CaZeek]

Other than the fact that I don't know anyone who could take a guy 7' tall, 260 pounds of all muscle, I think we agree for the most part. I'll have to meet Marcus before I can change my opinion there. I live in Baltimore, D.C., or New Jersey depending on the day of the week . While I'd have to say NJ doesn't exactly breed toughness, I think Baltimore and DC can account for that.

Secondly, I'm not justifying Artest's actions as self-defense. I'm just, as I just said, saying that there is absolutely no justification, excuse, or reason whatsoever for some ass to throw beer at him. At least Artest was provoked.. the fan wasn't.

Artest is a punk. Although, I wouldn't say cheap shots. I call Karl Malone's crap cheap shots- where he tries to get away with elbows and stuff like that. Artest doesn't try to get away with anything.. if he gets pissed at someone, he'll just start a fight.

Bottom line, yeah, Artest is not a role model, but I'm trying to put the event in perspective. I'm trying to put reputations aside and judge by what I saw, and that's what I saw.

[gastorgrab]

Ron Artest is pretty much one of the "toughest" players in the league. I'm not referring to his attitude, I'm referring to his build and strength... I really don't think he was scared of Ben Wallace, but who knows, you could be right. Whatever the reason was, he did the right thing.

Not that this is any justification, but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court. He was still wrong for grabbing any fans though, no argument here whatsoever.

From what I'm gathering though, you are saying that there was nothing wrong with the fan throwing a cup full of beer at him? We're all entitled to our own opinion, and I guess that's the one place where we differ.

It's the players job to deal with violence in their workplace. If they're treated unfair by a customer, they must do the same as anyone else.

They have a greater responsibility than the fans do because they're being payed to.

but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court.

In the video i saw, Artest was hit by the cup and immediately went into the crowd, swinging. In fact, only one cup was thrown, but three separate people got punched. That means, at the very least, two innocent people got slugged.

Where you watching ESPN?, take a look at an uncut clip.

The fight on the court itself, happened afterward.

[CaZeek]

They have a greater responsibility than the fans do because they're being payed to.

That's where I disagree. They're getting paid to play basketball, not to get beer thrown at them.

[gastorgrab]

If you have free time some weekend, go to your local bar / strip club and throw a cup of beer at the biggest bouncer you can find. You'll find out just how wrong the customer can be.

It's the responsibility of the Bouncer to protect the establishment he works for AND its patrons. Thats what they're being payed for. The customers are under no obligations to risk life and limb, and can be sued for interfering with security.

If your in a bar, the bar IS responsible if you get too drunk and hurt yourself (or someone else).

It's in the best interest of the performers at such an establishment, NOT to get the patrons injured, or killed. That is where the money comes from.

And if one person commits a crime, he alone should face the consequences. Not just anyone in his general vicinity.

[lordsmurf]

This "those who pay the salary" reasoning is bullshit. Because I pay the taxes, which pays for the mayor, does it mean I can go into his place of business and toss a cup of coffee at him? No, I think not. Can I call a cop or fireman names and start an argument with him? Probably land me in jail. What about the pizza delivery guy? Can I beat the hell out of him when he comes to my door or scream and throw pizza at him as he runs away?

Professional players are at work. Let them do their job. You are a SPECTATOR, not a fan. You WATCH THE GAME, you do nto get involved. Both MLB and NBA are weakminded fools. Quit blaming your own employees 100% and lash out at those unreasonable trolls that call themselves "fans".

How disgraceful.

[bazooka]

This "those who pay the salary" reasoning is bullshit. Because I pay the taxes, which pays for the mayor, does it mean I can go into his place of business and toss a cup of coffee at him? No, I think not. Can I call a cop or fireman names and start an argument with him? Probably land me in jail. What about the pizza delivery guy? Can I beat the hell out of him when he comes to my door or scream and throw pizza at him as he runs away?

Professional players are at work. Let them do their job. You are a SPECTATOR, not a fan. You WATCH THE GAME, you do nto get involved. Both MLB and NBA are weakminded fools. Quit blaming your own employees 100% and lash out at those unreasonable trolls that call themselves "fans".

How disgraceful.

Another person who did not read my post.

Both the players and the fans were at fault.

The fans were wrong to throw the beer, and the players were wrong to charge into the stands.

[Tommyknocker]

I'm not so sure about the athlete charging into the stands. At least now we know if you throw something at an athlete while he's trying to do his job, he may kick the living crap out of you.

[northcat_8]

Oh no, I think the fan was just as much at fault for throwing the cup. But Artest said after the incident, that after the cup throwing the rest was self defense.

I can't buy that. There was no serious threat of physical injury by the cup.

Artest can play the game, there is no doubt about that, but he plays playground, and there is no room for that in the NBA. We've had several fights on the court on the playground and that's acceptable and some what expected on the playground...we are talking NBA. A professional organization and behavior like that is unexceptable.

What would everyone have thought if Kerry had jumped into a bunch of Bush supporters and started throwing down?

What if a teacher attacked an angry parent?

What if a high school coach went into the stands after mouthing parents?

All of those are deemed unacceptable and in fact would never enter the mind of people in those positions.

Fact is that Artest did chuck Wallace in the back, the called foul was not even on Artest, therefore, Artest started the whole damn thing, once started, how it is handled doesn't matter, fore had it not been started, it wouldn't not have had to been handled.

Besides, 3 weeks ago Artest was wanting to take a month off. I have to wonder how much of that activity held "time off" as a hidden agenda.

You can meet Marcus, last I heard he was in Prison for felonius assault. That was just a matter of time. Marcus is one of those dudes that just ain't right in the head, and when he's pissed off, somewhere else is the best place to be.

Oh well, it's not like I care anyway. If it weren't for college basketball I wouldn't even watch basketball on TV.

[Guest]

Ron Artest is pretty much one of the "toughest" players in the league. I'm not referring to his attitude, I'm referring to his build and strength... I really don't think he was scared of Ben Wallace, but who knows, you could be right. Whatever the reason was, he did the right thing.

Not that this is any justification, but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court. He was still wrong for grabbing any fans though, no argument here whatsoever.

From what I'm gathering though, you are saying that there was nothing wrong with the fan throwing a cup full of beer at him? We're all entitled to our own opinion, and I guess that's the one place where we differ.

Some people argue that he was threatened by that 5'5" pudgeball of a fan.Thats why he had to punch him. So which is it tough guy or pussy?

[yoda313]

Hello,

but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court.

????????

He RACED into the stands! After the idiot threw the drink at him he jumped into the seats and started hitting him!

Kevin

[Devanshu]

They ought to suspend all of the participants for one year. ********

Artest was suspended for the season...o'neal for 30 some games, miller and several others for 1 game. I'm so proud to live in indy.

[Guest]

Artest was suspended twice by the NBA last season, once for leaving the bench during a fracas at a Pacers-Celtics playoff game; the other for elbowing Portland's Derek Anderson. During the 2002-03 season, Artest was suspended five times by the NBA and once by the Pacers for a total of 12 games.

Artest also once grabbed a television camera and smashed it to the ground following a loss to the New York Knicks at Madison Square Garden two years ago.

A stand up,all around class act.

[richdvd]

Besides, 3 weeks ago Artest was wanting to take a month off. I have to wonder how much of that activity held "time off" as a hidden agenda.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Artest will still have to attend practices and travel with the team like the rest of the players. He just won't see the court for the rest of the year.

[gastorgrab]

This "those who pay the salary" reasoning is bullshit. Because I pay the taxes, which pays for the mayor, does it mean I can go into his place of business and toss a cup of coffee at him? No, I think not. Can I call a cop or fireman names and start an argument with him? Probably land me in jail. What about the pizza delivery guy? Can I beat the hell out of him when he comes to my door or scream and throw pizza at him as he runs away?

Professional players are at work. Let them do their job. You are a SPECTATOR, not a fan. You WATCH THE GAME, you do nto get involved. Both MLB and NBA are weakminded fools. Quit blaming your own employees 100% and lash out at those unreasonable trolls that call themselves "fans".

How disgraceful.

Thats not what i mean at all. If a person goes to a resturant or movie theater, the theater (or resturant) is more responsible for the wellbeing of its customers than the customers are responsible for the wellbeing of the theater.

They took money, and invited people into their establishment. Unless a disclaimer is clearly posted declaring "Danger", then a customer has every right to believe that he'll be safe.

Only three fans did something wrong, and should be held accountable, but how many people got punched that didn't do anything wrong?

Being in the service or entertainment industry should have have prepared them for abusive fans. They should have expected that something like this could happen.

If the attitude is "Every man for himself" then i'm glad that it wasn't a fire that brokeout at the Palace.

[CoffeeGuy]

I'm not so sure about the athlete charging into the stands. At least now we know if you throw something at an athlete while he's trying to do his job, he may kick the living crap out of you.

He was laying on his back on a table. Is that his job ?

Not that this is any justification, but he did not "punch" anyone until the fan that started coming at him on the court.

The reason he did not punch anyone in the stands, the fans held him in restraint. He couldn't throw a punch (at the smallest person in the stand)

The boy or young man that met the "thug", Artest on the court with an assault riffle, or was it a club ? What I saw was a fan who had both his hands by his side, get the dog shit knocked out of him. And for what ? That fan was about as threatening as a pussy cat. Artest is a thug ! He needs to be playing street ball in the hood. It's strange how he felt threatened by this boy with his hands down by his side, but not by Ben Wallace, who thrusted his hands to the thug's neck. I guess he didn't feel threatened then. After all, why stand up to Wallace when you can more easily go after a twirp in the stands. Classy. Real classy.

[CaZeek]

I think we can all agree that Artest is definitely not classy.

Coffee, I agree, that's why he didn't punch anyone, after it got started, but my point was, it's not like he went in and started beating the crap out of everyone. He went in with the intention of beating the crap out of the guy that threw the cup at him. His brilliant wits decided the best way to find him was to grab each fan, yelling at them until they told him who did it.

As far as the guy who's now known as the "5'5" pudgeball", he's pretty much the biggest idiot of the night. Why would you ever go up to an obviously out of control Ron Artest who is in pretty much a psychotic state of mind. Whether or not Artest was scared of him or not, he was still an idiot for walking on to the court and provoking him. He kind of held his own against Artest though.. blocked the punches well enough to avoid injury (it looked like). One point for the pudgeball!

[CoffeeGuy]

Why would you ever go up to an obviously out of control Ron Artest who is in pretty much a psychotic state of mind

Good Point ! I dont know.

[adam]

I still can't figure this picture out. Is he getting a karate chop to his nuts or is that fan's hand really coming out his ass?

[Capmaster]

He ate the fan and now the fan is coming back for more

[gastorgrab]

I still can't figure this picture out. Is he getting a karate chop to his nuts or is that fan's hand really coming out his ass?

It looks like he's sitting on one fan while swinging at another.

If they're not having any fun, can we still call them "Fans"?????

[adam]

I know what he is doing, I want to know what that fan is doing with his/her hand coming out of his ass. Its just a funny picture. I think its actually two different fans, it just looks like the hand is coming from the one reaching in on the right.

I think the term fan comes from fanatic, so I'd say its pretty applicable.

[Tommyknocker]

I know what he is doing, I want to know what that fan is doing with his/her hand coming out of his ass. Its just a funny picture. I think its actually two different fans, it just looks like the hand is coming from the one reaching in on the right.

I think the term fan comes from fanatic, so I'd say its pretty applicable.

The term "fan" actually comes from fancier, someone who likes or fancies something. Fanatic was just a way of corupting something simple into something controversial, as the media likes to do.