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  1. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Jim - You missed two groups in your rant.

    Group 5 The anti-Group 1's who think anything Microsoft is perfect. And certainly, they must be the best because they are the biggest, right? Everybody else is to blame for not keeping up with the constant changing world of MS OS'es. Even though that OS is changing to fix their obviously blatant gaps.

    Group 6 The anti-Group 2's who think anyone who knows less than what they think they know must be morons. Put to the test under any real pressure to perform, and I think many of those people might find out how much they really don't know. Easy to talk the talk.

    This is a legitimate discussion with people who (through scientific analysis methods) have proven that there are problems caused by installing SP2.

    The only ones who have started any problems here are the two groups you failed to mention, which I have supplied the definitions for.

    Is there any chance that people here can continue their legitimate conversation without being hounded by the two groups I've mentioned?

  2. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    True, tekkie

    Although I think most Group 5 & 6's would be Group 3s in my definitions. I can't think of anyone who would be a group 5 or 6 that hasn't got SP2 to work.
    If in doubt, Google it.

  3. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EvilWizardGlick
    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Originally Posted by awai
    Can't figure it out.
    Microsoft sucks !



    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Buy that man a drink.
    For the record that was said (or should I say typed) with tongue firmly planted in cheek

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE

  4. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    I'll give you that Group 5's are probably Group 3's by your definition. I think the bigger problem is the Group 6's. They have just enough information to be dangerous, and spout it as gospel (not even remotely accusing anyone here). But, I would like to use a quote from one post as an example: "SP2 was deemed safe". Deemed by who? MS? Aren't they the same people who deemed ME safe?

    As I told Bazooka, I make my living developing software for Windows, so it's not in my best interest (financially) to see anything change (other than the outrageous cost of their development tools). However, being a Group 4, I've had enough to move 3 out of 4 of my home machines to an alterative OS. Ok, so 2 of them are still dual boot so I can work from home on occasion...

  5. Banned
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    I am a member of group 3 who is anal about updates and my systems are well oiled machines.

  6. Member
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    sp2 updates problems, yes

    nec nd 1300a burner will no longer read or write cd
    burner is still fully functional all modes/media w/o sp2

    Yes, I understand repy's saying "user fault" for not upgrading other software/firmware.

    Average consumer/pc user (me) is doing well to just install software much less open the hood and install hardware.

    Even if I am willing and able to do so, in a limited context, it is a lot of work, confusing and most readme files for flash/firmware give dire warnings about possible mishaps

    Do I really want or need to go with sp2, risk making my pc unuseable with hardware/software that has been working just fine up to now?

    Also I don't have a os install cd, pc came preinstalled, has recovery partition and I can/have made recovery cd/dvd sets.

    As a result, I have turned off ALL updates.
    System worked well when purchased as did all software/hardware that I added.

    Sp2 may work fine provided you know how to do all the other updates for software, bios flash, firmware for burner, TWEAKS to os after sp2 (what tweaks- how, where?) BUT this is beyond what the average pc user is capable or willing to do

  7. Banned
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    Originally Posted by snafu099
    Do I really want or need to go with sp2, risk making my pc unuseable with hardware/software that has been working just fine up to now?
    If you are going to run xp, then you need SP2, because of the security fixes and bugfixes.

  8. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    If your computer is running well for you, you DO NOT need SP2. You can protect your computer just fine with AV and a firewall (and free versions at that). If your PC works for you, use it as is. Why create headaches for yourself.

    Do not let anyone tell you how to use your own PC, or what is right for you, just because it is right for them!

  9. Banned
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    You left one thing out tekkie - Use a different browser other than internet explorer.

    The fundamental flaw that you are leaving out of your argument is that there are viruses that elude antivirus software and you are not fully protected by a firewall. That is why having your operating system up to date is necessary.

    By telling them to stick with sp1, they are open to security holes that the firewall will sometimes not catch.

    They are only creating more headaches for themselves later.

  10. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Agreed.

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    SP2 screwed up my, otherwise perfect, machine badly.
    My CD and DVD drives were not recognized, machine was slowed down, ...
    Now please take a look at this Microsoft page about uninstalling SP2:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875350

    and notice this sentence:

    "If you cannot successfully remove Windows XP SP2 by using one of the previous methods, follow these steps: ....."

    What is this crap - "if you cannot successfuly remove...."

    I rolled back on SP1, but my machine is not what it was, so I shall reformat and reinstall XP SP1.

    I understand that on other machines Sp2 works fine, but for me - it was a nightmare.

  12. Member Weapon's Avatar
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    No, SP2 has been great. No burner issues what so ever. However, my kids can't play there old Knowledge Adventure games. (So they leave the PC alone now).

  13. My DVD writer stopped working quite exactly about the same time as i installed SP2. For those who spend too much time hating Microsoft that would be a proof of how evil they are. However, since my burner had worked perfectly with another WinXP SP2 installation before with the same mainboard i think the problem was just the 3 letters on the DVD writer spelling N E C that caused the problem. Its being repaired still, if it was SP2 that did it i guess they would have found out already after spending 3 weeks on it.

  14. I have also had problems writing anything with my DVD burner since I installed SP2. I have un-installed SP2 but I still have same problem. I put burner on old PC which has never had SP2 and it works fine again.
    I can't point the finger at SP2 though as i have had to rebuild my PC since my motherboard crashed and had to replace it.
    My burner is the LG 4040B which does DVD-RAM and I have noticed some of the tools that came with this drive do not work even after re-install. Mainly anything to do with formating a disc is a real problem.
    I use good quality discs.
    All my software/firmware is latest version.
    I have tried several burn packages (including the features built into XP) nothing writes to anything (CD or DVD).
    My next step seems to be format my hard drive (again) re-install everything and check write-ability at each stage

  15. Member northcat_8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    Originally Posted by snafu099
    Do I really want or need to go with sp2, risk making my pc unuseable with hardware/software that has been working just fine up to now?
    If you are going to run xp, then you need SP2, because of the security fixes and bugfixes.
    Why? I run XP with no updates and no SPs. PC runs great, doesn't crash, I have a firewall, etc, etc. I don't think you need SP1 or 2 to be honest

  16. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by northcat_8
    I run XP with no updates and no SPs. PC runs great, doesn't crash, I have a firewall, etc, etc. I don't think you need SP1 or 2 to be honest
    You think something from Microsoft is completely safe and secure out-of-the-box ????
    If in doubt, Google it.

  17. Member northcat_8's Avatar
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    No but, seriously, how much of a danger could there possibly be?

    But I'm not seeing a big concern for all the security patches.

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    Originally Posted by northcat_8
    No but, seriously, how much of a danger could there possibly be?

    But I'm not seeing a big concern for all the security patches.
    Let's think about it for a moment.

    The average person is ignorant about a computer. Take my father-in-law for example. He believes it is no big deal to get a virus. When you get a virus it spreads to other computers or other areas of your computer. Most users are oblivious to the fact that they need antivirus software and a firewall.

    When Blaster and welchia came out the wreaked havoc on computers worldwide. I read that the Blaster worm took down the department of transportation's computers in Maryland. Welchia took down Fort Worth's city hall computers for about a day or so.

    Sp1 added features like larger hard drive support and bluetooth support, as well as usb2.0 support. Sp1 was also a compromise between the department of justice and microsoft. With SP1, you could set applications default properties. It was also a rollup of security patches and bug fixes.

    Microsoft is not perfect. Nobody is, but there were numerous problems with SP1 so SP2 was a way of fixing it.

    Take windows and and massive user base and it makes a wonderful target for hackers who just love to cause trouble.

    SP2 was created so that the computer ignorant person was reasonably protected. The firewall was beefed up and turned on by default. IE was given pop-up blocking, and they made it harder for malicious programs to have their way with your computer by creating data execution prevention. A security center was also added to let people if their firewall was disabled and if they were running without antivirus protection.

    Unpatched systems are very vulnerable to a variety of malicious programs, and SP2 also prompts you to turn on automatic updates.

    Hopefully this answered some of your questions.

  19. Originally Posted by northcat_8
    No but, seriously, how much of a danger could there possibly be?

    But I'm not seeing a big concern for all the security patches.
    I hope you don't do any online banking or online credit card purchases.
    I found 3 different key loggers on three different machines just last
    week.

    You can also loose all your data, or worse, pass infected material throughout
    the net. Even when protected, servers have to throw thousands
    of CPU cycles just to block this sort of stuff just because some people
    will not be told or cannot be bothered.

    Practice PC hygiene!

  20. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    SP2 was created so that the computer ignorant person was reasonably protected. The firewall was beefed up and turned on by default. IE was given pop-up blocking, and they made it harder for malicious programs to have their way with your computer by creating data execution prevention. A security center was also added to let people if their firewall was disabled and if they were running without antivirus protection.

    Unpatched systems are very vulnerable to a variety of malicious programs, and SP2 also prompts you to turn on automatic updates.

    Ok, not really much to disagree with here. However, many of us here do not fall into the category bolded above. Since many of us here run AV and our favorite firewall, and pop-up blocking had solutions way before it was put into IE by MS, as well as all the people who won't even use IE anymore, I would ask why do we need SP2?

    I don't need the firewall turned on by default. I have one in my router, and one in software. Why do I need a security center telling me about the firewall and AV? I know what is on my machine for protection, since I was the one who installed it! I also don't want automatic updates on by default. I will decide when and how my system gets updated.

    So again, Why do I need SP2?

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    awai, you sure are calm. I can't imagine why so much abuse is being heaped on this thread. If the same riteks burn fine with sp1 and not with sp2, it is unlikely that it is a firmware or bios problem. But have you actually tried that. Burn a disk from the same batch with sp1 and sp2? If so, could you try burning with decrypter?

  22. Banned
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    Originally Posted by tekkieman
    Originally Posted by bazooka
    SP2 was created so that the computer ignorant person was reasonably protected. The firewall was beefed up and turned on by default. IE was given pop-up blocking, and they made it harder for malicious programs to have their way with your computer by creating data execution prevention. A security center was also added to let people if their firewall was disabled and if they were running without antivirus protection.

    Unpatched systems are very vulnerable to a variety of malicious programs, and SP2 also prompts you to turn on automatic updates.

    Ok, not really much to disagree with here. However, many of us here do not fall into the category bolded above. Since many of us here run AV and our favorite firewall, and pop-up blocking had solutions way before it was put into IE by MS, as well as all the people who won't even use IE anymore, I would ask why do we need SP2?

    I don't need the firewall turned on by default. I have one in my router, and one in software. Why do I need a security center telling me about the firewall and AV? I know what is on my machine for protection, since I was the one who installed it! I also don't want automatic updates on by default. I will decide when and how my system gets updated.

    So again, Why do I need SP2?
    That is the kind of mentality that companies that get hacked have.

    My opinion is you can never be too safe.

    Computers are not invincible.

  23. Banned
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    Tekkie,


    You may be a programmer, but you are human and make mistakes.

    Computers are made by men and are not invincible.

    There is not an operating system around that is invincible.

    Hardware breaks and there are ways around firewalls.

    Viruses and worms can elude antivirus software.

    So would you please stop fighting me on this.

    My job is to protect computers and your job is to create software for computers.

  24. Member tekkieman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    So would you please stop fighting me on this.
    I'm afraid I really can't do that. We have a difference of opinion on SP2 (not on keeping your pc protected), and that's fine. The problem is that your expertise with computers has earned you the reputation here that people respect. That forces a measure of responsibility on you. You continue to imply that SP2 is MANDATORY, and that anyone not using it is IGNORANT. That is irresponsible, and needs to be countered to let people make fully informed decisions. Therefore, as long as you continue to insist that this is the only solution, I will continue to offer the alternative.

    Originally Posted by bazooka
    My job is to protect computers and your job is to create software for computers.
    Be careful here! For starters, I was hardware long before I was software. Second, I will save this thread from getting locked, and save you some public embarassment by saying if you want to discuss your qualifications or mine, I will be happy to do it! Just PM me.

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    Whatever

  26. Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Originally Posted by EvilWizardGlick
    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Originally Posted by awai
    Can't figure it out.
    Microsoft sucks !



    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Buy that man a drink.
    For the record that was said (or should I say typed) with tongue firmly planted in cheek

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    I hear you, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
    Gates may be watching.

  27. Originally Posted by tekkieman
    Originally Posted by bazooka
    SP2 was created so that the computer ignorant person was reasonably protected. The firewall was beefed up and turned on by default. IE was given pop-up blocking, and they made it harder for malicious programs to have their way with your computer by creating data execution prevention. A security center was also added to let people if their firewall was disabled and if they were running without antivirus protection.

    Unpatched systems are very vulnerable to a variety of malicious programs, and SP2 also prompts you to turn on automatic updates.

    Ok, not really much to disagree with here. However, many of us here do not fall into the category bolded above. Since many of us here run AV and our favorite firewall, and pop-up blocking had solutions way before it was put into IE by MS, as well as all the people who won't even use IE anymore, I would ask why do we need SP2?

    I don't need the firewall turned on by default. I have one in my router, and one in software. Why do I need a security center telling me about the firewall and AV? I know what is on my machine for protection, since I was the one who installed it! I also don't want automatic updates on by default. I will decide when and how my system gets updated.

    So again, Why do I need SP2?
    For those ten new security holes it creates.
    http://www.tweakxp.com/DisplayNews.aspx?id=133070&fid=34
    "Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) has ten unpatched vulnerabilities, a U.S. security firm said Thursday. Microsoft, however, ardently disputed the claims and said that they were "potentially misleading and possibly erroneous."

    Finjan Software said its Malicious Code Research Center had spent the last several months analyzing Windows XP SP2, the massive refresh that Microsoft touted as its most secure desktop operating system ever, and found 10 bugs that could be used by hackers to hijack systems when users simply view malicious Web pages.

    The San Jose, Calif.-based company said it has provided Microsoft with technical details on the vulnerabilities and with proof-of-concept code that demonstrates how the bugs could be turned into full-fledged security attacks."

  28. Originally Posted by jimmalenko
    Originally Posted by northcat_8
    I run XP with no updates and no SPs. PC runs great, doesn't crash, I have a firewall, etc, etc. I don't think you need SP1 or 2 to be honest
    You think something from Microsoft is completely safe and secure out-of-the-box ????
    But some of the updates are harmful as well.
    I guess that is why the made system restore.

  29. Originally Posted by bazooka
    I am a member of group 3 who is anal about updates and my systems are well oiled machines.
    Anal and well oiled, hmmmm.

  30. Why, the guy just asked a simple ? and this post turns into total BS.
    Yes some people are having issues after installing SP2 and others dont have any.
    And no you dont have to run SP2 if you have other security options.
    And for them well oiled pc's LMAO if you want to call that a pc....




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