Widescreen to fullscreen

[edDV]

Not all movies exist in fullscreen, if they did there wouldn't have been any need for this thread because I wouldn't have any widescreen DVDs. I asked if there was a way to make them fullscreen, that doesn't sound like ranting to me.

Other ways may exist but Sony Vegas 5 or Adobe Premiere can easily do it off a 720x480/576 DV source or MPeg2 converted to DV. Each scene would need to be framed and if you want to get fancy, keyframed horizontal scans can be done within fixed frames.

Thats how the pros do it but they they get better results since they are working directly off film or from D1 videotape transfers.

[handyguy]

"I personally don't understand how anyone could stand having up to half the picture chopped off,"

It depends on the person that did the film & their concept of the action. Some films you can do without the extra info, because the camera work sucks.

[samijubal]

Not all movies exist in fullscreen, if they did there wouldn't have been any need for this thread because I wouldn't have any widescreen DVDs. I asked if there was a way to make them fullscreen, that doesn't sound like ranting to me.

Other ways may exist but Sony Vegas 5 or Adobe Premiere can easily do it off a 720x480/576 DV source or MPeg2 converted to DV. Each scene would need to be framed and if you want to get fancy, keyframed horizontal scans can be done within fixed frames.

Thats how the pros do it but they they get better results since they are working directly off film or from D1 videotape transfers.

$500 and $700, I don't want them fullscreen that bad, ouch.

[edDV]

here's a cheap labor intensive program that tries to do it

http://www.riverpast.com/en/prod/videoperspective/index.php

Unfortunately it appears that software just chops the sides equally and doesn't seem to allow horizontal panning plus they just stretch vertical resolution. Very crude and will look bad on a decent TV set.

[samijubal]

Tries, does that mean it isn't very good at it?

[edDV]

If you are just viewing on your computer monitor, Cyberlink Power DVD 6
has various scaling tricks to expand the center and compress the edges to fill 4x3. Its a cheat but try for yourself.

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/6/video.jsp#multi

[adam]

It depends on the person that did the film & their concept of the action. Some films you can do without the extra info, because the camera work sucks.

I disagree entirely. Each part of the frame contributes to the overal shot, even if its not the part that is supposed to draw your attention. Simply put, framing shots are impossible to maintain during a P+S conversion. You just can't do it. Even if you keep the principle action you've lost the frame, it totally changes the makeup of the shot. Effects shots are also almost always ruined during the conversion. Composited images almost always rely on background images to introduce scale. Without it, you lose the shot. All of the basic tools that a director uses go out the window when you have to arbitrarily chop off large sections of the frame.

Now some directors do shoot with P+S "in mind," just meaning that they center in on the action and leave more head and footroom so there is more to work with when they open the matte. But converting to P+S destroys the composition of every scene in the movie, regardless of who shot it or how it was shot. I don't know any other way to say it except that a rectangle doesn't fit in a square. You can force it to, but it just won't be the same.

[samijubal]

If you are just viewing on your computer monitor, Cyberlink Power DVD 6
has various scaling tricks to expand the center and compress the edges to fill 4x3. Its a cheat but try for yourself.

http://www.gocyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/6/video.jsp#multi

I don't watch anything on a computer, ever. 4X3 televisions.

[edDV]

well this as you can see is a philosophical composition vs. practical viewing on a poor TV discussion.

The practical arguements boil down to

1. 16x9 on a 4x3 screen requires that you move closer to see what is going on.

2. if the screen is small, you need to move in very close to see that the picture sux...

3. even if your screen is large, when you move closer, you mostly see that your set lacks adequate resolution for a pleasing 16x9 picture unless you have a modern EDTV or HDTV monitor.

If you buy a digital EDTV or HDTV monitor, many manufacturers offer compomise modes that play with crops and aspect ratios allowing you to choose your favorite depending on 4x3 or 16x9 sources.

and so it goes.

[gll99]

I always buy widescreen when it's available because I can always construct my own fullscreen but not the other way around. You can fake it but can't add the cut portions. The problem with widescreen on my 32" 4:3 tv is that the aspect ratio of some movies is like cap described, looking through a slit. I compromise a little with those and modify them manually.
The simplest method I found is to use dvdx 2.3 and make a custom aspect ratio. I don't go fullscreen but lessen the slit effect top and bottom. This method allows me to chop less from the left and right while maintaining a reasonable height to width ratio. This is entirely a personal call on my part. Each movie may vary slightly. The examples shown by others above are extreme and I would never adjust a movie that drastically but leaving a moderate top and bottom border allows a lot more play. I'm working on The day after tomorrow and my first test is not too bad. It's not like I'm destroying the original.
When I decide to buy a projector and set up my own home theatre this problem should take care of itself. I know the issue of 4:3 vs 16:9 still exists with projectors but with a 8-10' + screen who cares

[edDV]

here is one calculator to determine ideal viewing distances for various screen sizes.

Even if you have a 50" plasma, your maximum viewing distances for 16x9 should be

5.6 ft THX (36 degree viewing angle)
to
6.8 ft SMPTE (30 degree viewing angle)

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

another way to look at it for a 19" 4x3 computer monitor, maximum viewing distance for a 16x9 movie should be:

1.8 ft THX (36 degree viewing angle)
to
2.2 ft SMPTE (30 degree viewing angle)

[RickTheRed]

I just went to the widescreen web site.

I did not know that widescreen was a "cause" and needed to be justify.
Gee, I think I will stop working and let my kid die for malnutrition. I will volunteer for the widescreen "cause".

I really love when someone is comparing poor VHS shoot with super nice DVD capture. You can see in almost every capture that the FS shoots lacks color and are poor in color.THis is sooo stupid. Like I know I am missing something but my tv does not get bigger when I put the WS.

If you are to compare screen, do it with the same proportion. The following shots make me, until I have something bigger than 27" prefer FS:

[Darth Paris]

Any Babylon 5 fans in here? The B5 movies(I don't know about the show) were shot in widescreen, but to save money they were shown in full screen so F/X for the edges wouldn't have to be created. The DVD's are widescreen, so any shot with effects is actually missing the top and bottom to maintain the widscreen ratio. This is still better then the whole thing being in full screen.

[edDV]

Any Babylon 5 fans in here? The B5 movies(I don't know about the show) were shot in widescreen, but to save money they were shown in full screen so F/X for the edges wouldn't have to be created. The DVD's are widescreen, so any shot with effects is actually missing the top and bottom to maintain the widscreen ratio. This is still better then the whole thing being in full screen.

Good production backgrounder on the Babylon 5 series is here. Only "The Gathering" was shot 4x3 and had edges added for the DVD.

see http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ReviewID=1364 and scroll down to Transfer Quality

" The Gathering was originally shot in 1.33:1 and not 16x9 enhanced. This is the only episode of the entire series and all subsequent movies shot in this aspect ratio. A decision was made early on to cater for HDTV and all episodes from then on, including the movies, were then shot in 1.78:1 and 16x9 enhanced (a decision of great foresight). In the Beginning is presented in an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 and is 16x9 enhanced."

[Darth Paris]

Good production backgrounder on the Babylon 5 series is here. Only "The Gathering" was shot 4x3 and had edges added for the DVD.

Yeah but the others had edges added during the effect shots. Anyways my copy of The Gathering is still in 4x3. The Box says the following " The Gathering: Standard Version presented in a format perserving the aspect ratio of its original televison exhibiton"

[Noahtuck]

I just went to the widescreen web site.

I did not know that widescreen was a "cause" and needed to be justify.
Gee, I think I will stop working and let my kid die for malnutrition. I will volunteer for the widescreen "cause".

I really love when someone is comparing poor VHS shoot with super nice DVD capture. You can see in almost every capture that the FS shoots lacks color and are poor in color.THis is sooo stupid. Like I know I am missing something but my tv does not get bigger when I put the WS.

If you are to compare screen, do it with the same proportion. The following shots make me, until I have something bigger than 27" prefer FS:

Not a cause that need's Justification
& just out of curiosity.... what does vhs vs. dvd have to do with it ?? I think the whole point was seeing the whole picture in WS vs. half in FS.

& before i get slammed for it.....

Believe it or not, there was a time many years ago when i HATED WS!!!!

If they are not important enough to be centered then IMO, chop them off tongue.gif

& yeah, but like i said earlier, there is alot of that extra that gives more depth to scenes..... obviously not the few seconds of the one you posted but for the vast majority of that film, along with others, the extra adds a lot to the visual depth.... IMERO....