AVT8710 Sharpness - Should I be able to see it work?

[tonyp2]

I've been testing out my AVTool AVT8710. It all seems to work, except that when I adjust the Sharpness control (I'm looking at a VHS Preview in VirtualDub) I can't seem to see it doing anything. Is this a subtle control, or does adjusting it give the same kind of obvious changes as the other controls?

[lordsmurf]

On live action, yes it will be very subtle. Put in some cartoons for the best testing. Easier to see lines and edge correction taking shape. The simpler and slower action in the toon, the easier to see.

But yes, this will be limited in function compared to a powerful detailer unit.

[tonyp2]

Thanks LS. I will try some of my Simpsons stuff that I have on tape.

[lordsmurf]

Perfect show to test with. Fat black lines, slow action.

[tonyp2]

The Simpsons... is there anything they can't do?

[gshelley61]

When applying sharpness and detail (enhancement) to a video source, adjust until you see improvement in the edges and the clarity of things like grass, leaves, patterns in fabric, hair, etc. Avoid over-enhancement... be subtle. Otherwise you will wind up with too much grain, video noise and right-edge ghosting.

[tonyp2]

Thanks gshelley. I was fortunate to get a Detailer III with its instruction manual, and your advice is also spelled out in the suggested operating method of the Vidicraft.

[zanos]

I had this at one point and quickly returned it. It's a piece of garbage much like expensive tbcs as well. You are better off with a sima color corrector.

[Marvingj]

Not True at all, Sima is just a color corrector, TBC's will always help in picture quality etc., etc.

[tonyp2]

I had this at one point and quickly returned it. It's a piece of garbage much like expensive tbcs as well. You are better off with a sima color corrector.

Hmm, I can't say that I agree with this, zanos. In the short time I've used it the Detailer III has shown itself to do a good job at image enhancement. It is easy to go overboard with it, and of course it does nothing for color correction (like the Sima), but I have an AVT8710 for TBC and color correction functions. The combination of the two is proving to be an effective way to perform color and image detail processing on incoming signals.

[gshelley61]

The Sima is not a bad unit for the money, but is cheaply made and certainly does not have the image quality or accuracy of Vidicraft, SignVideo and other pro level processors. I can't directly comment on the AVT-8710 or the TBC-1000 since I personally have not tested them, but many people on the forum have them and are very happy with their output quality.

[zanos]

I've used the datavideo 1000. This is another piece of garbage especially for the money. As a tbc it may even do less than the avt8710 and that does nothing. The only "true" tbcs exist in high end jvc svhs vcrs.

[lordsmurf]

I've used the datavideo 1000. This is another piece of garbage especially for the money. As a tbc it may even do less than the avt8710 and that does nothing. The only "true" tbcs exist in high end jvc svhs vcrs.

We've already debunked your complaint here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246006

A line TBC (JVC, Panasonic, etc) and a full-frame TBC (DataVideo, AVT, etc) are majorly different.

I suggest you do some research on what they are, and what they are meant for. The JVC TBC is great, but it has patented/embedded DNR circuitry.

[zanos]

I had this at one point and quickly returned it. It's a piece of garbage much like expensive tbcs as well. You are better off with a sima color corrector.

Hmm, I can't say that I agree with this, zanos. In the short time I've used it the Detailer III has shown itself to do a good job at image enhancement. It is easy to go overboard with it, and of course it does nothing for color correction (like the Sima), but I have an AVT8710 for TBC and color correction functions. The combination of the two is proving to be an effective way to perform color and image detail processing on incoming signals.

No not the detailer, the avtool. As a tbc it's ineffective. At it's best it's no better than the sima. At it's worst it'll make videos you're looking to fix look even worse with it connected. In the end it's just a waste of money.

[zanos]

I've used the datavideo 1000. This is another piece of garbage especially for the money. As a tbc it may even do less than the avt8710 and that does nothing. The only "true" tbcs exist in high end jvc svhs vcrs.

We've already debunked your complaint here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246006

A line TBC (JVC, Panasonic, etc) and a full-frame TBC (DataVideo, AVT, etc) are majorly different.

I suggest you do some research on what they are, and what they are meant for. The JVC TBC is great, but it has patented/embedded DNR circuitry.

Neither you nor anyone has debunked a thing I have said. No one has proven to me that standalone tbcs like the avtool or datavideo are effective devices for regular consumers who just want to convert their vhs to dvd without "problems." I already know what they do and did my research way back when I needed to. Whether it's a line or full frame tbc they're both supposed to actually do something and I have never gotten a full frame tbc to do anything but be a paper weight. At times it can make a video look worse. Bottom line is they're ineffective at the consumer level. We're not av professionals working in some studio. If you want to argue their use in that enviroment then I will gladly stay out of it. However this thread isn't about that.

Btw I made a typo. I tried the datavideo 3000, not 1000. Not that it makes much difference.

[vico1]

Well...I can`t speak to Datavideo or Sima units as I`ve never tested them.
But I do have an AVT8710 (working in line now as we speak) and find this
unit to be very useful.
Converting old VHS to DVD via my LiteOn 5005, this unit does do what I want it to do.
Very happy with it.
That`s what it`s all about isn`t it?


*******************************
The Devil`s always.....in the Details!

[richdvd]

I've used the datavideo 1000. This is another piece of garbage especially for the money. As a tbc it may even do less than the avt8710 and that does nothing. The only "true" tbcs exist in high end jvc svhs vcrs.

We've already debunked your complaint here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246006

A line TBC (JVC, Panasonic, etc) and a full-frame TBC (DataVideo, AVT, etc) are majorly different.

I suggest you do some research on what they are, and what they are meant for. The JVC TBC is great, but it has patented/embedded DNR circuitry.

Neither you nor anyone has debunked a thing I have said. No one has proven to me that standalone tbcs like the avtool or datavideo are effective devices for regular consumers who just want to convert their vhs to dvd without "problems." I already know what they do and did my research way back when I needed to. Whether it's a line or full frame tbc they're both supposed to actually do something and I have never gotten a full frame tbc to do anything but be a paper weight. At times it can make a video look worse. Bottom line is they're ineffective at the consumer level. We're not av professionals working in some studio. If you want to argue their use in that enviroment then I will gladly stay out of it. However this thread isn't about that.

Btw I made a typo. I tried the datavideo 3000, not 1000. Not that it makes much difference.

It looks like you are one of the few here with that opinion.
Not sure what I would do without my Datavideo TBC-1000.

[gshelley61]

Analog videotape has sync timing problems due to the mechanics of the system, period. When duplicating one tape to another (or copying to a DVD), a TBC is generally necessary to prevent vertical image distortion and frame drops, except perhaps when the source tape is first generation and in very good shape (and a TBC will still help in that case to prevent sync errors in the copy). I mean, why do you think nearly all DVD recorders have a line TBC built into them? To avoid the problems I mentioned.

TBC's don't alter or improve the image in any way and they're not supposed to. However, many TBC units also have chroma noise and Y/C filtering (as well as Proc Amp picture controls) that do affect the image. Noise reduction circuits in particular tend to soften the image a little bit.

zanos, if you don't want to use a TBC, more power to you. However, your conclusion that TBC's are ineffective and useless is just simply incorrect and uninformed. No offense.

[davideck]

zanos - If you can successfully transfer VHS to DVD without a full frame TBC then you are truly one of the fortunate few! I also have a TBC-3000 and find it absolutely essential for avoiding audio/video skew when capturing 1 to 2 hour MPEG2 files. A TBC is not supposed to enhance the video, it is supposed to stabilize it and guarantee continuous sync/burst signals regardless of the condition of its video input. The TBCs in JVC VCRs do a great job of stabilizing chroma phase and luminance detail on a line by line basis, but they are not full frame TBCs and do not provide uninterrupted sync/burst throughout a dropout region. My audio and video get progressively more out of sync if I capture a long segment with dropouts along the way (as all tapes will have) without a full frame TBC. The TBC-3000 COMPLETELY eliminates this problem.

[zanos]

I don't use a capture card. I don't have the hard drive space for it. I have successfully transferred over a hundred vhs tapes ranging from second to sixth generation and possibly beyond using a panasonic dvd recorder and at times a sony one without any synch or signal problems whatsoever. The fact that you get them so often is indication that maybe you should try a different method for transferring vhs to dvd. I've used the datavideo 3000 and avtool and it is actually much more likely that they'll cause you more problems than help them. I have no experience with them connected to capture cards so I won't comment on that but if you need a nearly $300 dollar paperweight simply to correct synch/signal errors, etc. because you're using a capture card to transfer tapes to dvd then maybe that's not exactly the way to go.

[gshelley61]

Your Panasonic consumer DVD recorder has a relatively effective line TBC that works pretty well as long as the source tape is not copy protected. That's probably why you have not experienced any noticeable problems.