Unhappy with compression of DVD Shrink

[wgb113]

I've backed up three of my DVDs so far. I only copy the main movie and one of the surround soundtracks.

Two of the three have not required compression and I am satisfied with the result. I burned a third that did require compression and even after a deep analysis and the other quality enhancement checked there are still a lot of compression artifacts. The disc in question is "A Concert For George". I burned it onto LinkYo 4X media at 2X using Roxio and my NEC ND-3500A writer.

Any suggestions?

Bill

[ricky1756]

quit using drugs

// This is unnecessary. Next time, yellow card warning.
// -- moderator lordsmurf

[johns0]

Try a program such as DVD Rebuilder or dvd2svcd that will encode the movie instead of transcoding,this will give you better results but take more time.

[bugster]

Buy a Dual Layer burner perhaps
Oh, and don't forget the dual-layer media to go with it.

[macleod]

I dont know what you are watching the video on, but on my 32" Toshiba TV (about 2 years old), transcoded (sometimes to 50%) look really good on my TV.

there is a thread on this site (or another one - cant remember) where some of the folks here have conducted their own analysis on movies using the 4 AEC settings.

Deep Analysis, I believe does 2 things. matches the target size closer and determines levels of transcoding based on scenes.

[adam]

I hear ya wgb113. There is only so much a compressed domain transcoder can do. Unless there is a very small amount of compression being done, I find the quality unaceptable too. You could try cutting the credits if you are willing or you could try a different transcoder, but if you want real results then take the advice of johns0.

[Gregg]

The truth is you can compress some movies up to 50% and not notice the difference while if you compress other movies even 15% you can already notice artifacts. One advice: Stop watching the/for pixels and enjoy the movie!

[wgb113]

Sorry if I've offended DVD Shrink fans, I just want this stuff to work!

I use DVD Decrypter to rip the file to my external hard drive. I use DVD Shrink's ReAuthor mode to select the Main Movie file and, in this case, DTS 5.1 soundtrack. I burn using Roxio Easy Media Creator at 2X onto LinkYo 4X media.

My writer is an NEC-ND3500A which has dual-layer capability. DL media is still too expensive, I might as well BUY another DVD for use as a backup at the cost of $10.

Playback is via a Denon DVD-2900 onto a Mitsubishi WS-55411 HDTV via component video connections, progressive output selected.

In what respect would a program like DVD Rebuilder take longer? Is DVD ReMake a good alternative?

Thanks,
Bill

[budz]

I burn using Roxio Easy Media Creator at 2X onto LinkYo 4X media.

use better dvd media and better burning software. in my opinion roxio is junky software to use to burn dvd media. download a trial of nero burn. DVDREBUILDER makes better quality dvd backups. your cpu is a pent 4 1.8 ghz chip so it would take you about 5-7 hours to use DVDREBUILDER. the process is long but the end result will have stunning video quality. I have a 8 year old SONY XBR 32 in. tv which my DVD REBUILDER backups look great and so do my DVD SHRINK backups.

[wgb113]

budz,

How bad is my CPU affecting my backup process? It took almost 2 hours to re-encode this particular movie with my CPU running at or neear 100%.

Why does ReBuilder take so much longer?

Bill

[Sabro]

Ever tried a different burning pgm? Honestly, I've never heard, or even said good things about Roxio products.

BUT - I did kinda have the same problem even with DVD Decryptor (burning), so I switched to Alcohol 120% to do the burn and perfect everytime even with the same files!

Just a suggestion...

Sabro

[DEMEN]

wgb113
Are u willing to replace DTS 5.1 w/AC3 2ch/5ch...
I know DTS 5.1 takes a lot of space... if u're willing to replace DTS 5.1 w/AC3... u'll have less compression or in some case u don't have to compress it at all...
Goodluck!

[wgb113]

Sabro,

I'll likely give in and pick up Nero 6 Ultra Edition, the only reason I'm using the Roxio is becuase it came with my NEC burner.

DEMEN,

I went back and forth on this particular DVD and chose DTS because I prefer it but if it will help the picture quality by requiring less compression then I suppose I could live with Dolby Digital for a backup.

Bill

[adam]

Why does ReBuilder take so much longer?

Bill

Because it supports the option for a full decode and re-encode. DVD Shrink is a compressed domain transcoder. It skips the coding of motion vector data which is the most time consuming process of encoding mpeg. It is essentially a shortcut to compressing video information and that is why the quality is inferior to a complete re-encode, though it can still be quite good.

Read this FAQ for an in depth description of the differences between encoders and compressed domain transcoders. If you want the highest quality then you must re-encode, period.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=63587

[wgb113]

adam,

I figured DVD Shrink was too good to be true. for those concerned with quality. I still want to tinker with it and try to get the best out of it before I move on to something more advanced like ReBuilder.

I'd be afraid my CPU (1.8G P4) couldn't handle the 5+ hour process DVD ReBuilder requires...

Bill

[steptoe]

If you're already using DVD Decrypter to rip and DVD Shrink to transcode, then why not just set the options needed in DVD Shrink, and let DVD Decrypter also burn the DVD for you

Thats the method I use for DVD's now, check my guide for the settings needed and how I manage to backup a full DVD or movie only DVD

http://www.thescrapyard.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/files/video/using%20freeware%20utilities%...r%20movies.htm



I used to use Nero for burning the DVD, not any more, I learnt the hard just how bad Nero is at creating DVD-Video's, after eventually getting fed up of the regular stuttering and pausing, even with good quality branded Ritek G04, changed to DVD Decrypter, not one glitch !!

So all those that said how buggy and rubbish Nero is at burning DVD-Video's were right, BUT some find Nero the best, some find Nero terrible, before we get loads of "But nero's the best", I've been using it for years, just not any more for DVD-Video. My personal choice

[Jah_Rankin]

quit using drugs

My thoughts, exactly

[Jah_Rankin]

I've backed up three of my DVDs so far. I only copy the main movie and one of the surround soundtracks.

Two of the three have not required compression and I am satisfied with the result. I burned a third that did require compression and even after a deep analysis and the other quality enhancement checked there are still a lot of compression artifacts. The disc in question is "A Concert For George". I burned it onto LinkYo 4X media at 2X using Roxio and my NEC ND-3500A writer.

Any suggestions?

Bill

U r asking for trouble up in here How old is your burner if u don't mind me asking?

[wgb113]

Jah Rankin,

Brand new, an NEC ND-3500A. Asking for trouble because I'm asking for help with a popular product?? That's pretty lame.

Bill

[guns1inger]

I have an AMD Athlon 1800+, and can quite happily run DVD RB with CCE at 3 passes and process a two hour movie in less than 3.5 hours. You should be looking at a similar timeframe on your machine.

[budz]

wbg113 wrote:

Jah Rankin,

Brand new, an NEC ND-3500A. Asking for trouble because I'm asking for help with a popular product?? That's pretty lame.

Bill

To wbg113: Ack! don't pay attention to what Jah Rankin has posted. :P he's just being lame because he could never get DVD REBUILDER installed correctly on his computer and couldn't get the program to work for him. your new NEC 3500 burner has nothing to do with the DVD SHRINK problem you've encountered. try out DVD REBUILDER if you need help with installing the program just ask for help in here. you can use DVD REBUILDER with a trial version of CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER (CCE).

[DereX888]

I burn using Roxio Easy Media Creator at 2X onto LinkYo 4X media.

use better dvd media and better burning software. in my opinion roxio is junky software to use to burn dvd media.

While I agree with you that roxio is crap, I cant just pass on this another favorite common misconception of mine

Blank DVD*R media is not a VHS tape! "Better" DVD*R will not give you better picture quality ROTFL! Its either error-less or with errors if it comes to discs...

[SaSi]

DVDShrink, DVD2One, Nero Recode and all the popular transcoders all suffer from quality loss when compression ratio increases.

It also has to do with the way the original movie was encoded. Several DVDs seem to have been encoded with an overkill bitrate, so transcoders can do a fine job chopping off the fat.

Of all transcoders, DVDShrink seems to be the worst in picture quality although it is the best in features and versatility.

You should perhaps try Nero Recode, which is the new incarnation of DVDShrink since Mr. DVDShrink got a job from Nero. Quality there is much better.

[skebenin]

Blank DVD*R media is not a VHS tape! "Better" DVD*R will not give you better picture quality ROTFL! Its either error-less or with errors if it comes to discs...

True, but only if the drive can read the media well. If the media is dodgy and the drive can only just barely read it, you'll get all varieties of artifacts from minor picture corruption to major blocking, picture stutters and freezes, audio drop outs, and player hang ups.

Since many set top players will do their damdest to read a disk, you really do get bad video quality with bad media (where you'd probably be better off if the player just told you the media was unreadable).

[jimmalenko]

I'd swap the DTS for DD 2 or 5, and you should see an improvement because there'll be much more space for the video and therefore less compression. The other thing that might be a factor here is your HDTV. I have commented in one of Jah_Rankin's "DVDShrink Sux" threads that my boss has a projector, and gets very poor results when DVDShrink goes below 90%. Because of the resolution of your TV, what might look good on a standard 27" could look pretty poor.

You have a couple of options - 1 is to re-encode (I'd use TMPGEnc 352 * 480/576 2-Pass VBR and AC3 2.0 with ffmpeggui), 2 is to try DVD2One, 3 is to do a 1:1 backup to Dual Layer. I sense that HDTVs might require DL backups for acceptable results in the future unfortunately .

[wgb113]

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone. I guess I'm going to have to find my "compression limit" with DVD Shrink before I give up on it. With the other two movies that required no compression the results were fine. This particular one I couldn't get the compression ratio to more than 68%.

Using the DD 5.1 over the DTS should help quite a bit as it's nearly half of the size.

I think the 55" HDTV is obviously making things much more noticeable. I'm having it professionally calibrated in two weeks so bad sources might even look worse then.

What's the general consensus on how far the $ of DL media will drop and how fast? I suppose I could always use that for backups that are that important.

Bill

[RickTheRed]

68% is a big compression ratio, that I tried to avoid.

IMO, use two SL dvds and keep the DTS, full movie, and even extras.
My guess is the original "I do not know who's this george" is very long (2.5 hours and more). In this case, it's less of a problem to have two discs.

[ybeard]

People have already selected DVD Rebuilder several times. It does do a much better job with backing up DVD's than does DVDShrink, but it comes at a price. Speed. If speed isn't a concern for you, then set up Rebuilder for around 4 passes or so and let it run overnight. A big DVD might take 6 hours or so, but the quality is pretty darned good and since I'm sleeping, it's no big deal.

If time is a concern and you don't want to Shrink it because of quality, I'd simply suggest playing your original if it is not backing up to your satisfaction.

[Jah_Rankin]

DVDShrink, DVD2One, Nero Recode and all the popular transcoders all suffer from quality loss when compression ratio increases.

It also has to do with the way the original movie was encoded. Several DVDs seem to have been encoded with an overkill bitrate, so transcoders can do a fine job chopping off the fat.

Of all transcoders, DVDShrink seems to be the worst in picture quality although it is the best in features and versatility.

You should perhaps try Nero Recode, which is the new incarnation of DVDShrink since Mr. DVDShrink got a job from Nero. Quality there is much better.

Wrong, recode produces macro blocks as well

[Jah_Rankin]

Jah Rankin,

Brand new, an NEC ND-3500A. Asking for trouble because I'm asking for help with a popular product?? That's pretty lame.

Bill

there's a lot of people here that think shrink is the best thing since slice bread, however I differ by far because of the same problem you are having. I prefer Instant CD/DVD 8 latest version for my back up.