WTF is wrong with this world(revisited)?

[freestyler]

I'll have to be careful next time I screw women that buy pills at CVS pharmacy... Maybe I'll stock my own

[fritzi93]

George: "Bingo!"

I've been here, thought you'd deserted us forever. You've been stirring up trouble over in Politik, I see.

Check out the "Do you remember" thread, the old farts need some reinforcements. :P

[Doramius]

They sell a billion pills in 190 countries at a dime apiece, sell a million in the US at 10 bucks each, report a huge profit that quarter. Are WE getting fucked or no?

I agree that if a prescription won't be filled because of a pharmacist's moral standards then give me back the prescription and I will take my business elsewhere.

Yup we're getting fucked! In my opinion the medical field today are only interested in making the fast buck and forget about the patients. Look at how the Bush Administration is preventing the USA from getting medication from Canada. Why? Because it's the pharmaceutical companies that are pocketing the big bucks and the Bushwacked administration is behind the FDA so they won't approve medication coming in from Canada or any other country. Why? Because those Bushwackers are making money themselves. Sorry didn't mean to get political but that is the truth. It's all about MONEY and forget the people.

I had a pharmacist ask me why I was taking a particular allergy medication. When I replied to her, "Because that's what the doctor prescribed"! She then began to tell me shit which confused me. I then had to contact my doctor to figure out if I could take the damn medication. The doctor responded to me, " what the hell is the pharmacist trying to do become a store operated doctor"! I never went back to that pharmacy which is known for pharmacists that can't make the grade go to work there.

Careful there. That's a bit political and you're not stating what's being properly done by the presidential administration. If a pharmacy was interested in just the money, I don't see where there would be a problem in them filling the prescription. The moralistic beliefs (which are being followed more by the presidential administration) would keep the pharmacies from making money because they wouldn't sell a product due to moral beliefs. On top of that, the presidency is not the one trying to keep people paying high prices for Meds in the US. It's the insurance and medical patent offices that are doing it.

[CoasterCreator]

a good idea for a young stud is buy birth control pills in mass quantity so all the ladies can come to the house and get their needed dose of what they are looking for ...I have to ask my wife to see who she feels about that ...

[budz]

On top of that, the presidency is not the one trying to keep people paying high prices for Meds in the US. It's the insurance and medical patent offices that are doing it.

I disagree with you on the presidency part. I do agree with you that insurance companies have a hand in the high prices. I'll leave it at that.

[Capmaster]

a good idea for a young stud is buy birth control pills in mass quantity so all the ladies can come to the house and get their needed dose of what they are looking for ...I have to ask my wife to see who she feels about that ...

I bet I can guess ...the same as my wife

[gmatov]

This is not meant to be political, BUT:

"On top of that, the presidency is not the one trying to keep people paying high prices for Meds in the US. It's the insurance and medical patent offices that are doing it."

I do believe that the Prez is the leader of his Party, and his Party is the one which wrote the new MediCare law that forbade MediCare from negotiating prices for drugs with the Druggie pushers.

The LARGEST buyer of drugs in the world, MediCare, cannot, by LAW, ask Merck for a nickle a pill discount . GW admin forced that. So, you are screwed if you need one of the meds that cost a ton. Want a recall election?

Patent Office does not set prices. Patent Office will determine if you have a unique and new idea, process, whatever, which you shall be protected from infringement for a given period.. But they add a little something and get an extension, actually, a new patent, such as when it was proved that a bacteria caused ulcers, and bismuth and a regimen of antibiotics for 2 weeks cured them, the "ulcer medicines" patented a formula with bismuth, which you still have to take for the rest of your life, at 1500 bucks a year.

They been making these damned things for 40 years, all their expenses have been recovered many times over, they cost more today than they did 10 years ago.

Ah, shit, keep eating the fuckin' pills up, just make sure you invest your 401' in drug companies. You'll get rich quick. (maybe, fen-fen,vioxx, thalidomide (antique, but still)

Cheers,

George.

[Capmaster]

No politics ...please. This is a good thread and it'd be a shame to have to lock it.

[gmatov]

Budz,

You ever consider the Pharmacist might have your well being on her mind? That she knew some of the side effects better than the Doctor? That the Doctor was a little pissed that anyone would dare point out a screw up on his part?

You ever consider reading about the drug you are taking and comparing effects to the drug she might have tried suggesting.

Pharmacies are the front line, today, with drug interactions, they supposedly enter your meds into your file in a 'puter and it supposedly flags drugs that don't get along with each other.

Doctors were still prescribing Fen-phen right up until it was dragged off the market, Vioxx, the same, and Thalidomide wasn't pulled till enough babies with flippers were born to implicate it as the culprit.

Doctors are not gods. They get most of their info on new drugs from thre "Detail Men", the drug salesmen. The drug companies have 1 pusher per 6 doctors, so to make a 100 grand income, have to get each of those 6 doctors to push 16.666 grand IN PROFITS of drugs.

And the doctors get to go on junkets and get all kinds of nifty gifts, to boot. H'mmm, maybe they ARE more interested in getting you to take your medicine like a good little consumer.

Cheers,

George

Fritzi, where is the "Do you remember?" thread?

[budz]

Budz,

You ever consider the Pharmacist might have your well being on her mind? That she knew some of the side effects better than the Doctor? That the Doctor was a little pissed that anyone would dare point out a screw up on his part?

The pharmacist was basically a bitch. It was her tone of voice and telling me I shouldn't take that meds is what bothered me. Trust me she did not have my best interest in mind ok. The reason the doctor changed the allergy medication was because I had ear infection which needed to be treated with a antibiotic and allergy med. that has a decongestant in it. Instead of my sinuses draining through my nasal passage it backed up into my ears. Thus causing a inner ear infection where the decongestant would help to decongest my ears. Instead of telling me I shouldn't take that prescription she should have asked me how come or why? Not tell me I shouldn't take it. I didn't appreciate the bitch telling me what I should take or not. She didn't even know why I needed to take the decongestant allergy med. but has the nerve to tell me not to take it. She isn't the doctor.

Let's just say this I trust my family practice doctor who's taken care of me for 30 plus years who knows my medical history and oversees what is in the best interest of my health than some local pharmacist who knows nothing about my medical history. I even had a prescription filled once which was suppose to be a nasal inhaler and when I got home it was a freeking asthma inhaler. When I returned to the pharmacy the pharmacist questioned me are you sure about this. I took it out of the package and told him hey try shoving this thing up your nose. The store manager happened to walk by and he told the pharmacist to correct the problem. LmfaO!

George I appreciate the concern and offering me another way to look at that situation. In my earlier post I didn't want to give the entire details of what happened because it as you can see it is quite lengthy.

[vitualis]

Ah George...

What makes you think that pharmacists don't get kickbacks? Let's face it, they sell medications for profit. Doctors just prescribe it. Whether I prescribe a cheapie or an expensive one actually doesn't make much of a difference to me. I generally prescribe what I think will be best for the patient. Drug companies hire reps to make doctors think that THEIR product is the best.

However, where there are generics, or over the counter medication, the drug companies target pharmacies...

Regards.

[gmatov]

Michael,

I don't know about Australia, but, her, if I went into a druggist's and asked for a prescription of say Vicodin, I would be lajghed out of the store, if they did not call the cops.

But if I go to a doctor with a problem it is indicated for, I would get the scrip.

So, no, I would say doctors are the prime purveyors of drugs, and you are more likely to get the drug that the Rep with the best incentive program pushes.

How do you stand in re generics? I have argued that they are exact copies of the formularies with people who say,"Nah, they can't be the SAME, that would be illegal." Goes right over their heads that they are copies because patent protection has expired.

Many doctors will not prescribe generics. Some claim to not be familiar with the generic, though, again, as an exact formulary, how can they not be? They're usually the ones who insist the major brand lable makes it work better

On the other hand, most insurance coverage, here, requires generics whenever they are available.

Cheers,

George

I almost forgot, yes pharmacies sell meds to profit, but as above, they can only "push" OTCs. Can't even say, here, why don't you take a double batch? 17 pills prescribed, 17 pills delivered.

'Nother good one with drug prices here. Many are so expensive that some older and less well off people try to get half a scrip filled, as it is either that or not pay the utilities, or eat. Surprise. Say, 30 pills cost 50 bucks. 15 pills? How about 35 bucks. Screwed one way or the other. Now, that one I may have to attribute to the pharmacy.

[jimmalenko]

Aren't pharmacists doctors who didn't make it ?

I'll back my doctor any day of the week against any pharmacist you can supply, George.

[gmatov]

Jim,

More likely they decided to go into pharmacy because they wanted a paycheck rather then fees, and freedom from all the lawsuits the Reps say they are liable to if they go for an MD. Local Pharms grads have been offered 70 grand to go to underserved states with a commitment of up to 5 years. I am a Dem, so 70 grand sounds pretty damned good to me, as a (hypothetical) 27 year old, for his/her first job.

Well, actually, if I had a headache for half an hour and went into a drugstore to ask what they reccommended for fast relief, I would think they would suggest the house brand of either acetominephin, ar acetisalycilic acid.

Whereas, if I went to my doctor, he might prescribe a high priced pain reliever, or maybe an MRI or CAT scan, it's not normal to have a headache for a whole half an hour, 35 bucks co-pay, please.

If my head has been hurting for a week, I would go to my doctor.

Ah, well,

Cheers,

George

[vitualis]

There are a lot of drugs that are off patent. In Australia, if I say write a script for "Amoxil" (i.e., amoxycillin) and I don't check the box that prevents the use of substitutes (and I would very very rarely do so), then the pharmacist can dispense any brand of amoxycillin they want... not just "Amoxil".

There are a lot of standard/common medications that are off patent and many companies make the same thing. Most pharmacies would have deals with specific drug companies to push THEIR brand of medications rather than others in terms of generics.

And then there are over the counter (OTC) medications... e.g., simple analgesics, topical creams and medications (e.g., anti-fungals), etc. Ask a simple problem, and your local pharmacist can recommend an OTC medication. The difference compared to your DOCTOR, is that the pharmacist makes money on his or her recommendation, including the brand. If you see me with a clinical problem, I prescribe what I think is indicated. I make money from the consultation, not from prescibing you something.

[hech54]

That and one more thing.
We will NEVER see a cure for Aids or Cancer. The drug companies will NEVER allow that to happen. There is more money to be made from treatments.....if they put out a cure....their meal ticket is gone.
How long have they been looking for a cure for cancer? Do you really think nobody has found one by now? There are literally 10's of thousands of Cancer Treatment Clinics in America which would become obsolete if someone puts out a cure.
And those are just clinics....then you have the ordinary hospital and it's cancer treatments.....and it's bills for the cancer treatment to the patient, the patient's insurance company and Medicare.

On a lighter note.....how about High Blood Pressure. Has anyone ever tried my answer (cure) for high blood pressure?
Take Some Out....

[gshelley61]

It's a conspiracy, I tell you! It's the Bildebergers, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Masons, Skull and Bones...

[vitualis]

Cancer is not one disease. It is hundreds. And some cancers can (BTW) be cured. Sorry hech54, but I think you need to learn a little bit more about cancer before making a blanket statement like that.

Also, your sentiment is not consistent with history. One of the most profitable line of medications for drug companies used to be for peptic ulcers. Back then there was no cure, it almost always came back, and you felt better taking the medications.

Then H. pylori was discovered and a one week course of antibiotics and acid suppressants will cure it in most people (all the meds, BTW, are off patent too).

Regards.

[NamPla]

This pharmacist probably puts pins through all the condoms too!

I remember the dirty looks I used to get when I bought frangers... back when I was 10, 12, whatever...

Phuck pharmacists!

[hech54]

Cancer is not one disease. It is hundreds. And some cancers can (BTW) be cured. Sorry hech54, but I think you need to learn a little bit more about cancer before making a blanket statement like that.

Also, your sentiment is not consistent with history. One of the most profitable line of medications for drug companies used to be for peptic ulcers. Back then there was no cure, it almost always came back, and you felt better taking the medications.

Then H. pylori was discovered and a one week course of antibiotics and acid suppressants will cure it in most people (all the meds, BTW, are off patent too).

Regards.

That's not how it works here in America son.... Everybody in the world (except America) could buy the non-drowsy wonderpill allergy medication Claratin (Claratyne for Oz) over the counter AND at least 1/4 the price....and here you needed a doctor visit (also paid for by you) to get it.
Me?....I had to drive to Canada to get mine because my medical coverage did not cover prescription costs.
As soon as their next money maker...Clarinex....was approved by the FDA for prescription sales....THEN they took Claratin off of prescription.
Here in America the drug companies, tobacco companies and alcohol companies have lobbyists who badger politicians night and day to make laws and regulations go "their" way.
That is how it is done in America. It happens every day and nobody wants to hear it or see it until it is their grandmother taking a bus tour to Canada because she can't afford her medication that Medicare won't pay for. Come on up here for a while and see REAL ******** at work....the drug companies and their lobbyists in action.
******** In Action
Peptic Ulcers?....what the hell year was that....1960's....

[gmatov]

Ulcers required Pepcid and the like until well after 1982 when Dr. Barry Marshall, from Australia, proved that h.pylori was the culprit, and that an antibiotic, plus bismuth, not, not, I repeat, an antacid,as per more Pepcid, would cure it. The bismuth was a slug of Pepto-Bismol, OTC, 2 bucks a bottle.

The drug companies fought him tooth and nail. The medical profession, at least till a few years ago, said bullshit, too.

Even today you will find Doctors who will say, nah, you need Zantac. I don't believe in that. I have had that with my daughter, when I asked my, at that time , family phyician, to give her a test for the gas,the farts from the bug, same as sobriety test blow through the tube test. "I don't believe in that."

Well, **** you,Jack, he is no longer my family MD.

Oh, yes, Pepsid and Zantac and the rest have all added bismuth to their formularies. So take these for the rest of your life, now, 1500 bucks a year, please..

Cheers,

George

Michael,, h pylori just may well be implicated in most forms of cancer between the mouth and the rectum, which is most of the body. At least the most important parts not counting the brain..
I'd have to go get a 3 year old mag to quote, but can if necessary.I saved that one.

[loconess]

are any of you pharmacists?


dont be like in california
where people are being forced (state tax) to pay taxes on something they believe is unethical (embryonic stem cell research)

as pharmacists, they(as well as i am) have that right, undisputed right.
after all its a free country, if you dont like it, its your right to take your buisness elsewhere.

dont blame the pharmacists for standing up for what he/she believes.

although, your prescription is your property from the doctor
so, you should keep it.

finally:
you never "have to" take any drugs,
you always have the "natural" route.

[vitualis]

Helicobacter pylori (at least some strains of it and through chronic infection) is associated with gastric adenocarcinoma and gastric lymphoma. I would say that all other associations between H. pylori and other cancers are WEAK...

Association is one thing, causation is another. There is an association in populations between toothpaste and breast cancer as well. That hardly means that toothpaste causes breast cancer (or breast cancer causes increased usage of toothpaste). Both are simply higher in Western countries.

As for bismuth based compounds, they are not new. The American view of PUD (traditionally) has always been on acid reduction (hence the H2 antagonists and then the proton pump inhibitors). The European view has been more based on mucosal protection (hence things like misoprostal and bismuth compounds). In OZ, we have traditionally followed the American treatments in this regard.

H. pylori has changed PUD management though. In Australia, it would be unforgivable to NOT treat someone with proven PUD with antibiotics and I would imagine that it would be the same in the US. NOT giving antibiotics leads to H. pylori eradication in only 10-40%.

Using one of the combination regimes (e.g., in OZ we have something called "Losec Hp 7" which has amoxycillin + clarithromycin + omeprazole) which generally involves combining an antibiotic or two with either a PPI or bismuth leads to eradication rates of over 90%.

@ hech54: IMHO, one of the serious problems in the US is direct consumer drug advertising (which is illegal in Australia). Have you ever wondered why you think Claratyne is a wonder drug? How do you even know its name? There are many other non-sedating oral antihistamines out there not to mention, they probably aren't the solution for you if allergic rhinitis is a chronic problem.

@ loconess: as a member of a profession, there are certain professional standards that you have to uphold not to mention an obligation and duty to the community. Any pharmacist can think whatever they want but they have to act in manner appropriate for their society. Denying someone their prescribed medications is WRONG.

As for the "natural" route... Yes, health care is not a right, it is a choice. You can engage with the wonders of modern health care where you can live longer and healthier than ever before in the history of the human species, or take the "natural route", which objectively means that most of you should have already died from an infective illness.

Regards.

[hech54]

@ hech54: IMHO, one of the serious problems in the US is direct consumer drug advertising (which is illegal in Australia). Have you ever wondered why you think Claratyne is a wonder drug? How do you even know its name? There are many other non-sedating oral antihistamines out there not to mention, they probably aren't the solution for you if allergic rhinitis is a chronic problem for you.

Loratadine....I think that is the correct spelling...I know it well. And I sampled some of my ex-girlfriend's supply while it was still under prescription....she is a pharmacy tech.
I remember e-mailing her from Adelaide asking if it indeed was the same thing as our prescription version...she of course said yes.....and of course she was also appalled that it was available over the counter in Oz as well as Canada.
I myself call it a wonder drug because it is one of the few that does what it says it will do and does nat make me feel like a walking zombie on Halcion. My allergies only occur at the beginning and at the end of summer....other than that I am fine.
Advertising is a SMALL problem in America....make sure you check out my ******** IN ACTION link in my previous post....you'll see the BIG problem with American drug companies and their hired guns.

[vitualis]

Corporate America screwing over the public... that's news?

The Australian PBS (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme) is actually a very good system at curtailing costs from medications although people here are forever saying that's it's falling apart. We don't get the best and latest medications (which isn't really bad as most of the latest drugs aren't that great and cost a hell of a lot more) but most important medications are available at a reasonable cost to everyone. Seeing a GP in Australia doesn't generally cost much either (if they bulk bill (probably around 60-70% of practices), it is free at point of contact.

Regards.

[hech54]

See there....things(medical care and prescription care) are MUCH better in Oz than they are in America.....which was my point all along...
It's ALOT better in most places than America....but people just don't want to hear it.

[Sillyname]

Remember the Pharmacist's name and file child support on their ass. Even if they are a woman, they will be the cause of you eventually lugging around a child, as a single mom. The guy that originally got you that way, shouldn't be blamed, if you tried to get the morning after pill. The blame needs to be on the Pharmacist that screwed you. If they're beliefs are strong enough, then surely they can take on the responsibility of supporting the child, too. I'm only being fair here.

[vitualis]

The US spends more on health (as percentage of GDP) than any other Westernised nation by a large margin. And yet, somewhere around 20% of your population do not have access to general practice care...

Regards.

[NamPla]

Yeah 99% of the Western World's population takes Zoloft. What does that tell ya?

[vitualis]

Regards.