Anamorphic encoding from sky tv in TMPGEnc Plus

[uriel23]

Heres the background.
I read somewhere anamorphic widescreen is better quality than letterbox, so called poor mans widescreen because it only has to be stretched one way. DVD's are sometime slated for using the old letterbox method for this reason. As a result I use the anamorphic method with my Sky box and widescreen tv.

I capture from Sky TV in the UK (Pal) using the ADVC-100 and Scenalyzer Live, I then cut, join in Premiere pro, interpret this footage in premiere pro to expand the anamorphic 4:3 image out to 16:9.
I then export the audio and video seperately and import the video into Tmpgenc plus for encoding. I then add the audio which converts to AC-3 when authoring.

The resulting DVD is still anamorphic which can be stretched on a widescreen tv, but on the computerscreen in win dvd and on a 4:3 tv its still squashed.

This I am willing to live with for 16:9 broadcast capture if it is better quality. Though bought DVD's work on both displays without using letterbox widescreen.

There are settings in Tmpgenc I am not sure of in this instance.
First is in MPEG Settings - at the moment showing 4:3 Display.
Second is in advanced - Scource aspect ratio.

Be most greatful if anyone can advise?

Uriel

[yoda313]

Hello,

I didn't think 4:3 could be anamorphic???

Anyway, try 16:9 display instead of 4:3 and still use the keep source aspect ratio. That should help keep things anamorphic and not stretched. Good luck

Kevin

[bugster]

I sometimes do a similiar thing, excet use a DV camcorder to to capture. Then edit and save, still as 4:3. I only set 16:9 as the aspect ratio in TmpGenc. I am not sure if this is 100% correct, but it works for me!

So, in TmpGenc, advanced tab, source aspect ratio is 4:3 625 line (PAL), on the video tab Aspect ratio is 16:9 625 line (PAL)

[energy80s]

Make sure that the input DA is set at 4:3 fullscreen and the output DAR is set at 16:9. This will keep the 4:3 anamorphic settings in the finished MPEG. All software DVD players should play this correctly, although Win Media Player probably won't.

[uriel23]

Thanks guys for your speedy replies. Encoding I will get mmmmm. He must learn patience..... or get a faster machine ha ha thats for yoda 313. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers again, much appreciated.

Archangel Uriel

[uriel23]

Ok finished encoding.
I set the input DA to 625 line (Pal 704x576) as wasn't sure which one of the 4:3 options was the 4:3 fullscreen you were talking about. I asumed this was the source res. I then set the output DAR at 16:9.

The result
Again this works fine on a widescreen tv because it can be stretched, however I hooked it up to a 4:3 portable and DVD player. I know this DVD player can letter box anamorphic DVD to view a widescreen movie on a 4:3 TV.

I popped in "Wild things" first of all it was anamorphic squashed on the screen. I set the letter box option on the machine and this worked.

When I tried the DVD I just authored no joy it was still full screen squashed. Tried it in PC with Win DVD 4 same result, the funny thing is played the vob in Windows media player and it worked, it had stretched the image and now there was black bars present.
Maybe it should be flaged in scenalyser live for 16:9 or maybe I'm doing something wrong in premiere pro.

In there I open a widescreen work area. When I import the avi capture it is anamorphic 16:9 compressed into 4:3 screen. Viewed in the widescreen playback window with black left and right sides, so I interpret the footage as widescreen which pulls the pic out correctly. This is then exported.
I'm stumped

Uriel - lost angel in South Wales

[bugster]

What are you using to author. The authoring proggy may need to be told that your material is 16:9.

[uriel23]

I'm using TMPGEnc DVD Author, haven't seen anything in there. Version 1.5.20.62

[bugster]

I'm using TMPGEnc DVD Author, haven't seen anything in there. Version 1.5.20.62

Sorry, don't use it myself so can't help there but I know other authoring apps have a 4:3 and 16:9 setting. Also I know that IFO files contain this info. You could try changing the setting with Ifoedit after authoring but before burning.

[uriel23]

Tried it again on another authoring project and it now works, even in win dvd. Didn't do anything different, don't ask. One for the X-Files! Thanks for all your help on the other settings. Think I may choose a different authoring progy, the menus always seem very faint when I make a background image in photoshop and import it in, and when I make a graphic holder with text then put it into the movie in premiere pro the final dvd txt flickers slightly (text is black on white background), maybe something to do with interlacing,also does it with thin blue line on black background, something for another forum topic unless I find it at the site first.

Keep up the good work, couldn't have got my showreel off to film companies without your help.

[SatStorm]

Only 720 x 576 is supported for 16:9
704 x 576 or 352 x 576 are not officially compatible with 16:9

So you capture and encode at 720 x 576, author and then you may have 16:9 or letterbox (from your DVD)

[Beldvd]

I use TMPGenc DVD Author with 352 x 576 input from 16:9 source..
I author the DVD using the files "as is" and I use IfoEdit to edit the properties of the VOBs to change from 4x3 to 16:9. Works fine !

[SatStorm]

So Do I, but that doesn't make it "official"
The problem is about those few players that love "official". If you are lucky enough to have one of those, then or you change standalone (the easy way) or the way you encode / author your stuff...

[vhelp]

Thanksgiving day.

Well, as one put it.. what app did you author it too. Anyways.

Some of these apps (if not most) do not properly set the AR correctly when re-encoding to VOB's.

The only app (freeware) that did NOT mess the AR up was ifoEdit.
Its the only app will I can use (and I love it) and get perfect
AR in my encodes (through powerDVD ..remember to setup the AR
in this app for widescreen view. And, my AD-1500 player)
Note, WinDVD does not play *true* widescreen. (ie, it does not play an
1.85 and 2.35 in true aspect ratio view (wider) ) Only Powerdvd does,
but you have to set it up properly to do so)
.
Here's a sample clip from a Star Wars request. Remember to use winRAR v2.90 to extract MPEG file.
--> 1123.1

Also note. That dvd players usually comes w/ three options to set
for widescreen / panscan / letterbox (in any order your player issues)

About the closest approach to correct AR (though TMPG) is to use
the crop feature. Most prefer to use an AVS script or vdub and
then frameserve this into TMPG. But you still have to prepare
TMPG never-the-less.., for the encode. Then, its up to the sofware
player to supply the "widescreen" feature

When you capture a 4:3 source. Most sources are. Examples:
TV; Cable; VCR; Laserdisc etc etc. There are no devices that will
give you Anamorphic capture (unless you setup your DVD player to
proper AR and you capture from your DVD player - that's the only
medium you'll have success with, *unless* your tv station aired a
given source in an anamorphic view (shorter black bars))
(IMO) it is not *true* anamorphic, because the resolution is far
to low to get a smooth and clean stretch back to 16:9 widescreen
view. But many people attempt it anyways. Heck.., just finished
up on my Star Wars laserdisc encode (on one project) and did just
this. Oh yes.., as I was saying..

You capture a 4:3 source that is widescreen. chances are, it is
a 4:3 letterbox view. If you know the true Aspect
Ratio of a given source (ie, 1.778; 1.85; 2.35 are your most common
AR numbers) .. if you know your source is a 1.778 AR for instance,
you would crop the black bars (60 at the top and 60 at the bottom)
and encode that w/ TMPG, but using the Video Arrange Method
setting as "Full screen (keep aspect ratio)" as your setting. And
make sure you set you Aspect ratio: [16:6 Display] as such.

The above is just one example for a 1.778 AR source.
But remember.. you *MUST* know the sources true AR number first,
before you attempt to re-comvert to a given AR.

My brain is hurting now.

Cheers, and happy Thanksgiven Day :P (usa folks)
-vhelp

[Beldvd]

So Do I, but that doesn't make it "official"
The problem is about those few players that love "official".

True. But problems only arise if one's try to read 16/9-encoded material on a 4/3. Otherwise, you can still manually "strech" the 16/9 picture to fill your 16/9 TV

[bugster]

You capture a 4:3 source that is widescreen. Cheers, and happy

Thanksgiven Day :P (usa folks)
-vhelp

No. We are talking about Sky TV in the UK, which does transmit quite a lot of its material in true 16:9. So your capture card doesn't know this and treats as 4:3 (everbody looks tall and thin). Simply encode with a 16:9 DAR and this is corrected.

You have to remember that 16:9 widescreen TV's are a lot more popular and widespread in the UK (and much of europe I believe) than they apparently are in the US. Sso a lot of broadcast material is 16:9 also.

[vhelp]

oops I ment past PAL 'land (hehe) and assumed it was
NTSC. Anyways.

I'm pretty sure I said that source would still be 4:3 (after you capture it)
and that you would have to crop boarders off and stretch
using TMPG (or other means) to make a final 16:9 MPEG.

From my point of view, everything you capture is always going to be 4:3 (unless
you have a device that also captures (through means of cropping/stretching on the
fly) but I haven't seen or heard of those tools) and that's why you have to use the
technique of cropping the boardsers and resizing (depending on the AR in question)
For example. For a source that is 1.778 AR, you don't have to resize. But, for a
source that is either 1.85 or 2.35 AR, chances are, *you must* resizing (after cropping)
.
If I'm off a little.., its just a little

Now, the reason I say (elswheres in my post above) "..unless DVD player.." in so many
words.., is because with a DVD player, it will stretch the source as either a:

* letterbox, or
* anamorphic

view. If you set your DVD player to letterbox (or LB) it will be more on the 4:3 AR
and you have to crop, but use MASK and encode to 4:3 (not 16:9) to keep the AR and
letterbox look.
.
But, if you set your DVD player (not software) to anamorphic (usually 16:9 mode in some
DVD players or in others, Widescreen) you would crop the all the boarders off
and resize your source to nn x 480 (or nn x 576) because that will re
stretch it back to correct AR. But, there are two AR's (wider views) that you have
to account for. They are:

* 1.85, and
* 2.35

Other than that, the results should finalize to correct re-production of AR video.

I think that DJrumpy has a dedicated thread on AR reproduction (though probably more
accurate then my measily explanation above)

-vhelp