GOP Too Large (Long?) Error AGAIN in TMPGEnc DVD Author

[hech54]

I have done everything I know to get this to stop happening but my current project has me stumped.
I ripped individual videos from a concert DVD with DVDShrink. Imported them into TDA....got the famous error message (shown above).
I actually re-authored all of the videos into one DVD with the AUDIO and VIDEO_TS folders then imported.
SO....I opened them(the individual videos - VOB's) in MPEG-VCR and saved them as MPEG's....imported to TDA...same result.
I tried MPEG-VCR's GOP Fixer....it says my GOP's are withing the limits when I scan them.....NO Errors Found.
Then I seperated the video from the audio....imported to TDA....same GOP Error.
My next trick is to glue my keyboard UNDER my desk and try standing on my head while doing it....
I could just burn the videos with NO menu....I wouldn't mind it too much BUT....6 of the videos were taken from a 47 minute portion of the DVD that I needed to use MPEG-VCR to cut out....these vids are NOT with the folders created with DVDShrink.
I have 21 vids taken via DVDShrink....and 6 more edited via MPEG-VCR.

Any suggestions as to what to do next.

Oh and when I import the MPEG's to TDA....ignore the message....and have TDA create and output....the output files are also SMALLER than what TDA says they will be....OF COURSE.
The audio is AC3 and it is from a factory pressed DVD....the new Phil Collins double live DVD.

[Forum Troll]

You might try opening the VOBs directly in VideoReDo, make the necessary edits, save them as MPEG-2, then import the new MPEG-2 files to TDA. Or, take the files you created previously and run them thru VideoReDo's Quickstream Fix tool. Plus, the newer revision adds this (which might be what you need):

GOP Reducer added to Tools>Options>Advanced Streams. When enabled, VideoReDo will reduce the size of a GOP to be DVD compatible.

[hech54]

Will the trial(?) version allow me to test your theory?
I wish they would say exactly "how" trial a version is before you download it...

[Forum Troll]

The VideoReDo trial is fully functional for 30 days.

[hech54]

The Quickstream Fix tool turns my segments GREEN and makes them 12 seconds long when loaded to TDA....and trying to open an MPEG file in VideoReDo locks the program AND my computer (XP Pro).

[hech54]

OK....VideoReDo AINT making it....uninstalled.
Anybody else run acorss this problem that can shed some info?

[FulciLives]

Please note that if the video was imported from an original DVD yet you get the "dreaded" error you are getting that in fact it is probably most very likely A-OK and you are only getting the error because the MPEG/VOB header says the video bitrate is at the MAX when it really is not.

I wouldn't worry about it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LisaB]

Why are you so concerned about this error? Just ignore it. Thankfully, TDA lets you ignore the GOP constraints, because they are very nitpicky, and 99 percent of players out there will play everything just fine anyway.

TDA is notorious for playing it safe with respect to output size. It is usually 100 MB off, and even more when you are authoring from VOB's. Trust me, this would be the same even if your sources were "compliant".

[hech54]

The actual output size ends up 2.1gigs....when in fact TDA says it will be damn near 4gigs. I too would ignore the error message if it was not for this output size thing as well.

[LisaB]

woh! that's crazy! I've never seen TDA off by that much....

But if you have corruption in your source, then TDA will just truncate it and not tell you about it. How big are the source VOB's you're using?

Actually, your comment makes no sense...do you not know how big your source VOB's are? I mean, really, just author 4.2 GB of VOB's (ignoring TDA's size predictions), and if it still comes up way less, then you have some serious truncating going on, and you need to fix your video.

How many audio streams are in your VOB's? TDA will only author one audio stream, but it may count the total VOB size in its estimate...this could explain the discrepancy.

If you want to eliminate the bad size predictions, then use something like VobEdit to demux all the elementary streams out of the VOB's and then use the elementary streams.

[hech54]

These are the files:
against all odds(live).mpg 145842 KB a
against all odds.mpg 123202 KB a
another day in paradise.mpg 166446 KB a
can't hurry love.mpg 97900 KB a
can't stop loving you.mpg 158608 KB a
dance into the light.mpg 170468 KB a
don't lose my number(rap).mpg 86808 KB a
don't lose my number.mpg 208140 KB a
easy lover.mpg 166292 KB a
groovy kind of love.mpg 132728 KB a
hang in long enough.mpg 193814 KB a
in the air tonight(live).mpg 175062 KB a
in the air tonight(with henry mancini).mpg 72480 KB a
in the air tonight.mpg 160708 KB a
missed again.mpg 123010 KB a
no way out.mpg 130138 KB a
one more night(elvis).mpg 38412 KB a
one more night.mpg 172036 KB a
seperate lives(country).mpg 102174 KB a
seperate lives.mpg 146440 KB a
something happened.mpg 207938 KB a
sussudio.mpg 190968 KB a
take me home.mpg 218160 KB a
true colors.mpg 161026 KB a
two hearts.mpg 142232 KB a
Total files size: 4180 MB

EVERY mpeg shows up GOP Too Long when added to TDA....even after running ALL of them through Womble(as VOB'S - then saved as MPEG's)
That is problem one.....problem two is the output file size being HALF of what they are supposed to be.
I made a DVDRW of the files I first ripped with DVDShrink(prior to Womble)....it burned fine but studdered on playback in my PC....played fine on my Philips DVD Recorder. That is what made me put them into Womble to do the save as trick to MPEG format.
Still hasn't helped.

[FulciLives]

I don't understand why you just don't rip in FILE MODE then import directly into TDA.

That would make things much easier and if you still get a GOP ERROR then it really isn't an error like I said.

You might be doing something "screwy" to the files the way you are doing it now though.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LisaB]

okay, your problem intrigues me, because I use TDA all the time.

1. I don't think GOP too long is your problem. It is not the "cause" of the shuddering, nor is it the reason you're getting a size discrepancy.

2. Forget about Womble.

3. if I were going to author these files (music videos), i would put *each* one in its own track. there are a few reasons for this. first, this means that each video will be its own title, and so if you want to go into the VIDEO_TS folder later and check things out, then each video will be its own distinct VOB, instead of being all joined together in a few 1 GB VOB's. second, each title can only have a single audio bitrate, so when you add lots of different things to a single title (TDA calls them tracks), then TDA will have to re-encode everything to the specifications of the first thing you added....this could also possibly explain a size differential.

Take advantage of the fact that TDA offers multi-title authoring...this is primary reason I use TDA and not DVD-Lab!

4. Now, after you've authored the DVD (putting only one video per track), COMPARE the VIDEO_TS folder with your folder of mpg's. They should line right up, and you can see which ones are being truncated (if that is, indeed, what is going on)

5. Now, if there is a big size differential between an mpg and its corresponding authored VOB, then something funky is going on...

6. here is what you do for each "funky" mpg:

a. download and install TMPGEnc Plus if you haven't already.
b. goto MPEG Tools in the file menu
c. goto Merge & Cut tab
d. add the funky mpg (not the VOB, but the mpg)
e. the type dropdown will "automatically" adjust to the appropriate setting, so don't worry about it.
f. choose an output filename
g. click "run"
h. this isn't actually merging or cutting anything, but it will "thoroughly" remux your mpg, adding sequence headers if necessary....the regular multiplexing doesn't add sequence headers. if there is corruption in the mpg, then the file will be truncated! basically, if your mpg is truncated using Merge & Cut, then your mpg will be truncated if you try to author with TDA! This is a great little analysis tool, plus it is the only tool I know of that will add proper sequence headers to a program stream.
i. now play the funky mpg and the TMPGEnc'ed mpg in a media player...if your mpg was truncated, then they will have different durations.
j. if the mpg's have the same duration but a very different size, then that means your original mpg either had more than one audio stream, or a junk padding stream.

7. If you have bad mpg's (truncation using merge and cut) then that is tricky problem. MPEG-1's can sometimes be fixed using VCD Gear, and MPEG-2's (probably what you have) are another matter entirely.

Well, try the steps above and let me know how it goes.

Lisa B.

[LisaB]

let's reconsider what I said in step 6j. If the size changes but the duration doesn't, then scratch what I said about more than one audio stream, because Merge & Cut will preserve the number of audio streams (but remember that authoring with TDA will only keep the *first* audio stream).... But you can always check out your streams by going to the "De-Multiplex" tab in TMPGEnc Tools, and adding your file....you'll see all the streams....

[hech54]

I've even taken ONE of the videos.....directly from DVDDecrypter.....File mode - demuxed to a video and audio file....put that one video into TDA....same error message.
I've done it this way MANY times before without a problem.....what the FVKK is up with this DVD(set)?

I'll try LisaB's recommendations today. Not a big fan of putting a 4 minute music video into each track but I'll give it a whirl....ignoring the GOP message. I'll put my Oversized GOP Colored Sunglasses on before I start....
Thanks for the advise....MUCH appreciated. I'll post my results.

[FulciLives]

I've even taken ONE of the videos.....directly from DVDDecrypter.....File mode - demuxed to a video and audio file....put that one video into TDA....same error message.
I've done it this way MANY times before without a problem.....what the FVKK is up with this DVD(set)?

I don't see why you just don't import DIRECTLY into TDA from the DVD Decrypter set of files.

There is no real need that I know of to demultiplex the VOB before inputting it into TDA so why the extra step? ... especially since it might be doing something "goofy" that is causing the error you are getting!

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[hech54]

a. download and install TMPGEnc Plus if you haven't already.
b. goto MPEG Tools in the file menu
c. goto Merge & Cut tab
d. add the funky mpg (not the VOB, but the mpg)
e. the type dropdown will "automatically" adjust to the appropriate setting, so don't worry about it.
f. choose an output filename
g. click "run"
h. this isn't actually merging or cutting anything, but it will "thoroughly" remux your mpg, adding sequence headers if necessary....the regular multiplexing doesn't add sequence headers. if there is corruption in the mpg, then the file will be truncated! basically, if your mpg is truncated using Merge & Cut, then your mpg will be truncated if you try to author with TDA! This is a great little analysis tool, plus it is the only tool I know of that will add proper sequence headers to a program stream.
i. now play the funky mpg and the TMPGEnc'ed mpg in a media player...if your mpg was truncated, then they will have different durations.
j. if the mpg's have the same duration but a very different size, then that means your original mpg either had more than one audio stream, or a junk padding stream.

Lisa B.

No such luck:

[hech54]

I don't see why you just don't import DIRECTLY into TDA from the DVD Decrypter set of files.

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

What the **** is the difference between ripping with DVDShrink and ripping with DVDDecrypter? With 5 minute videos you still get one vob for each video using BOTH programs.
27 videos....27 vob's....BOTH programs....VOB's from either program will NOT load correctly into TDA with material from this DVD.
I have disc 2 from this set on my HD already ripped with DVDDecrypter when I used DVDShrink (1 in the drive - one on the HD) to take the videos from BOTH discs of the set.
Either way I STILL end up with GOP error messages AND the resulting output files from TDA are undersized and/or WILL NOT PLY WITHOUT STUDDERING....even when I play the output files in PowerDVD.

AMBIG (Any More Bright Ideas Genius) - this is NOT my first time working with ANY of these programs.

[FulciLives]

AMBIG (Any More Bright Ideas Genius) - this is NOT my first time working with ANY of these programs.

Buy another copy of the DVD and forget making a back-up ... if it is that precious to you that you can't stand the idea of the original getting damaged and then not being able to find it again ... well ... better buy a second one now when you still can.

I have 2 of some of my precious stuff like: LPs, LaserDiscs, toys (one MIB and one out-of-box on display), etc.

If this one DVD is that important to you then just buy another and stop worrying about why this one DVD will not back-up properly.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LisaB]

I never said the tools I suggested would get rid of the GOP Errors. I said not to worry about the GOP Errors. GOP errors have nothing to do with your stuttering problem, and nothing to do with the size discrepancy problem.

The fact that you get GOP Error dialog just means that your mpegs don't have compliant GOP lengths, but that is no big deal. The *only* way to change GOP lengths is through re-encoding. You can remux, change from mpg to vob, and fiddle around with your video streams all you want, but that isn't going change the size of the GOP's. Apparently, the Vobs on your original disc have too-long GOP's, so there is nothing you can do about that unless you want to re-encode, and I would advise against that simply because there's no point.

Now if you'd tried what I suggested you could have figured out where all those missing bytes are going...

That was the problem I was most concerned with.

[hech54]

Here's the scenario:
Two disc concert DVD Set (Phil Collins Final Tour).
Concert spread across both discs. I have successfully taken the concert from both discs in DVDShrink to make a "just concert" disc....losing all the silly menu crap....no menu though...just burn the folders....works perfect.
Also on the discs are the MTV style music videos. THOSE are giving me the problems for some reason. It is a pain in the ass navigating through the menus to switch between the concert and the videos.
I have taken just the videos from the two discs in DVDShrink and burned with no menu....but the resulting DVD's video seems to play in short bursts....nowhere near in sync with the audio.
Same result in TDA....ignoring the GOP error.
I'm going to re-read your post LisaB and try to grasp it a bit more.
There is also one more weird thing about this DVD set. At the VERY end of the second DVD.....after the credits and everything....there is a mechanical "hand" on the screen....with a handle in the side. The handle is winding UP the middle finger and then I get "The Finger" for a brief moment then the DVD is officially over....Hmmmm. Dirty buggers.
I'm attempting a screen shot of it today.....if nothing else it is pretty funny....

Also....#1 Audio DVD Ripper failed miserably on the original....it worked fine on the "concert only" DVD I made with 5.1 audio. It also did not work from the DVDDecrypter rip of disc two of the set that I have on my hard drive.

[LisaB]

1. If you're going to rip files or vobs or whatever from the DVD to your hard drive, use DVD Decrypter and not DVD Shrink....ripping files is the specialty of DVD Decrypter, and it is by far the best tool out there for such things. The specialty of DVD Shrink is shrinking...i.e., transcoding the video.

2. If you can't get the ripped VOB's to play nicely on your computer, then your stuttering problem has nothing to do with TDA, and you shouldn't expect TDA to fix this. If I were you, I'd try to use DVD Decrypter to rip a single video off the disc, remux with TMPGEnc MPEG Tools, and then make sure it plays fine in your media player. If you can't do that, then there is no point in going any further, since authoring something to DVD isn't going to magically fix whatever is causing the stuttering.

3. I would also download and install G-Spot, so you can analyze your mpg/vob and make sure it is being played back using the appropriate media filters.

[hech54]

The VOB's always play perfectly on the computer....whether I take them with DVDShrink or DVDDecrypter. I only use DVDShrink because I can actually SEE what I am taking.

[hech54]

Just an update:
If I burn the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders of the videos I took from both DVD's to a DVD....the DVD plays perfectly in my player but cannot go to the next video via the remote because the videos are all titles and not chapters....it's fast forward only.
If I try to re-author the vob's with TDA....both the folders played in my computer player AND the burned DVD folders that TDA creates DO NOT PLAY. You can hear the music perfectly but the videos stop and start continuosly...it is unwatchable.
Also one of the music videos(Can't Hurry Love) always shows up as an "extra" when you load it back into DVDShrink(I did this just to try to figure out just WTF was going on) and for some reason one of the videos is missing from the VIDEO_TS folder when loading into TDA....but not Can't Hurry Love.
This DVD set is a pain in the butt....