How much does file increase in TMPG DVD Author?

[alandla]

Hi all. I was wondering if there was a rule that states how much an MPEG2 file would increase when it is opened in TMPG DVD Author?

I tried to fit 6 short files onto a DVD so I divided the 4438MB limit by 6 to get 739MB per file. I encoded the 6 files to 739MB each (3 hours in TMPGEnc Plus) but when I added them to TMPG DVD Author, I ended up be over the limit by ~210MB because it would increase each file size.

I then just added the files one at a time, noticing how much was being added and re-encoded the files to a file size that was this amount smaller.

This is obviously time consuming so I was wondering if there was a better way. I thought about bitrate calculators but they would only work for 1 file/DVD.

While we are on it, why is the limit 4438MB when a DVD holds 4.7Gb (4812MB). If the extra ~400Mb is for menus and such, why does the file size increase?

Thanks for any help.

[redwudz]

Actually a DVD holds about 4.37GB. The 4.7GB is arrived at by using a different numbering system. (Such as 1000=1024. It's been explained a few times here before.)

Probably the overhead in TMPGEnc DVD Author is the menus and the amount of space set aside for folders and graphics. This would likely vary with each DVD.

You could also run the completed DVD file through DVDShrink before you burn it for some fine tuning on size.

[alandla]

I've read some of these "explanations" but they all refer to the 1000=1024 thing which I have also commented on (4.7Gb = 4.7 x 1024= 4812MB even larger than the 4438MB limit.

I understand that the actual size of the MPEG2 file may have to be limited to 4438Mb to allow for extra info to be burned on the 4.7Gb DVD but what I want to know is why 20-30MB is added on to each MPEG2 that I add in TMPG DVD Author?

Thanks for responding

[johns0]

Tda uses about 200mb of overhead for menus so before you start authoring make sure the source file size is 4.16 gb so you dont go over.

[Baldrick]

200MB???

9 menu pages gets about 5 MB when I author(and +5 MB for multiplex vob overhead). If you use big motion menus it will of course be biggger.

[jimmalenko]

I've read some of these "explanations" but they all refer to the 1000=1024 thing which I have also commented on (4.7Gb = 4.7 x 1024= 4812MB even larger than the 4438MB limit.

No.

4.7 GB * 1000 * 1000 * 1000 = 4 700 000 000 bytes
= 4589843.75 KB = 4482.27 MB = 4.377 GB.


I think your size issue is because of the menu that is automatically seleced by default. Change the menu setting to no menu and see what happens. Irregardless, drop your clips in and author anyway. Then use DVDShrink or DVD2One to shrink it back down to size. As a general rule I subtract 50 kbps off the required video bitrate to allow for menus

[alandla]

Thanks for the info. It makes some sense now although I would like to know who came up with the idea of using 1000 instead of 1024 for conversions as 1024 is the correct number. I understand the desire to make things simple but if it isn't correct, then it isn't correct.

Also thanks for the recommendations. I will try to change the menu to see what happens (although I do like the clouds 1 menu) to file size.

I'm not in front of my home computer now (on the road) but I'm not sure if TMPG DVD Author would allow me to create the DVD if I went over the file size limit. If this is true, how can I create my desired DVD so that it is in the proper format to be shrunk?

Do the shrinking programs re-encode? If so, are they as good as TMPGEnc? Would it be bettre to try and set the correct size in TMPGEnc in the first place or just create the file in TMPGEnc with a good bitrate regardless of its size and just shrink it later

Thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.

[steptoe]

I've done exactly what you have done, using TMPGenc DVD Author, let it create the oversize DVD, and just ran it through DVD Shrink in 'Full Disk' mode

TMPGenc DVD Author is nothing more than software used to create the files needed for a DVD and also create menus to make you're life easier to navigate the DVD

It can also do very basic editing before creating the VOB files and related data, but thats about all its designed to do

[alandla]

Thanks Steptoe. I'll try it when I get back home.

I know what you mean about TMPG DVD Author but it is exactly all I need and works like a charm. As far as editing goes, it's actually better than most other programs that I have tried.

[jimmalenko]

Ideally, it is best to hit your target size when encoding in TMPGEnc. However, TMPGEnc DVD Author will give you a warning about creating an oversize DVD. Just click ignore, and it will proceed as normal. Then load this into DVDShrink or DVD2One. These 2 programs are transcoders, which are different from encoders. It is quite an explanation regarding the differences, but let me assure you that most transcoders do an excellent job in very quick time.

marketers were responsible for the 1000/1024 thing. a) it makes the DVDs sound bigger and b) all the laymen understand base 10 numbering. base 2 numbering confuses the hell out of mr & mrs average.

[johns0]

200MB???

9 menu pages gets about 5 MB when I author(and +5 MB for multiplex vob overhead). If you use big motion menus it will of course be biggger.

I just checked tda with a dvd project with no menus and it still takes 200 mbs for overhead,for me that is.

[alandla]

I got back late last night and I had to try adding my MPEG files into TMPG DVD Author but I chose no menus. The amount of free space never changed.

I agree with ~200 Mb overhead. I had 6 files with about 30MB added to each. I also checked smaller files. When I added an 89 MB file, it added about 5MB to the file size. Since you could fit about 45 files of this size onto a DVD and assuming it always added 5MB per file, there would be an extra 225MB added.

I think that the next thing to try would be to add a full size file (4438Mb) and see how much is added. Maybe it is proportional to the number of files?

Thanks for all the input.

[Matt D]

I've got to go with Baldrick on this one, no way should it be taking 200mb for menu's. Ten simple menu pages adds up to about 20MB on my system.

[johns0]

Not talking about menus taking up space,its overhead thats adds 200mb.

[Matt D]

Johns0- Whatever, I still find that the overhead comes nowhere near 200MB. Take this disc I just made for example. The original MPG files add up to 4,491,456,512 bytes and after authoring to disc with menus, etc the final size is 4,524,034,048, a difference of 32,577,536 bytes.

[rhegedus]

Use the bit-rate calculator in the tools section to configure the bitrate for the mpeg you want to encode to fill a full dvd.

I've noticed that even TMPGEnc overestimates file size by upto 5.3% when using the above bit-rate data.

Thus TMPGEncDVDauthor will do the same.

Just ignore the warnings - the bitrate calc will be correct all the time. If adding the menu overfills the dvd, just remove it using DVD2ONE.