Freezing freezing freezing, how come ?

[90blackcrx]

Sorry I edited my post and you did not catch it, so what would be the better thing to do

Encode like I did causing 2 files so this way I don't have to extract audio, or should I just encode video. If I encode video and audio together into 1 file then extract it, that won't be right becuase the video file will still have audio in it right ?

On another note, if I do it either way, will the quality still be just as good ? Will I run into any audio synch problems ?

Also I put the first file in dvd author and I pick the ac3 sound file, well when I go to load the 2 file I get this error

Linear pcm audio is not comatible with current track, it does not do this when I add the first track so is this because I changed the first tracks audio ?

[daamon]

Encode like I did causing 2 files so this way I don't have to extract audio, or should I just encode video.

Use AVICodec on your source files - these are the ones you're loading into TMPGEnc (please, just once would be nice... ). Post the info here for the audio. Depending on what it is, depends on how you can do it...

If I encode video and audio together into 1 file then extract it, that won't be right becuase the video file will still have audio in it right ?

If you do that, you'll have a footage.mpg that (as you say) will have both video and audio. No need to extract the audio from the source as long as you're happy to have MP2 audio in the footage.mpg file.

From here, you can take the footage.mpg into TDA to author as it'll pick up both the elementary streams.

if I do it either way, will the quality still be just as good ? Will I run into any audio synch problems ?

Negligibly less than the original - not enough to notice, so nothing to worry about. The improvement in video is much more beneficial.

No, shouldn't get any synch problems.

[90blackcrx]

I'll do it to the orignal file but let me tell you what I'm doing because I'm pretty happy because I actually think I did it.

Ok I had 6 mv2 and 6 wav files

I converted the wav files to ac3

I loaded the files into tmpge author, the problem that I think was happening was, the first file I put as ac3 audio, but when I loaded the 2nd video tmpge author was trying to use the wav file. So anyways I loaded all the ac3 files where they should be.

Not dvd author says the file is gonna be about 4,000 gb.

Did I do good ? I think I did but hey maybe I did not.

About the mp2 file, which one would take up more space ? The ac3 audio or the mp2 ? It does not matter that there seperate files does it ? I mean, right now I have to add the ac3 file to tmpge author, but if the video file already had the audio in it, would it be smaller ?

Also another thing that had me thinking, when I encoded this I set the audio bite rate to 1536. Well when I converted the wav file to ac3 is that still the audio size, if so is it just that wav files take up more space ?

[90blackcrx]

Ok make sure you read the thread above, I don't want to edit it and get caught in between. I ran the original file and came up with this

Audio : 268 MB, 1536 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, 0x1 = MS PCM, Supported

File : 268 MB (268 MB), duration: 0:00:00, type: DSH, 1 audio stream(s), quality: 72 %

I also ran it in g spot and it says under stream type it says wav but audio codec it says pcm audio.

Also I got this when I tried to author it
*The capacity of the DVD is exceeded.

The estimated size of the DVD folder you are about to create is 4627MB.
This exceeds the capacity of a 4.7GB DVD of about 4437 MB.

Is that really big ? I thought if the file size was 4627mb that it would only be 627 mb over. Maybe I got the mb=gb alittle wrong. Any comments on the size ? Or wait, is the 4437 number the amount of mb on a dvd disc. I think I read that wrong.

[daamon]

I'll do it to the orignal file...

OK - I'll wait for your post... EDIT: It's in the one above, I'll read then post.

Did I do good ? I think I did but hey maybe I did not.

Yeah, I'd say you did very good. You ended up with 6 files with compressed audio fitting on to one DVD disc, burned and watchable and happy with the quality. Good going for a self-confessed newbie... Well done.

About the mp2 file, which one would take up more space ? The ac3 audio or the mp2 ? It does not matter that there seperate files does it ? I mean, right now I have to add the ac3 file to tmpge author, but if the video file already had the audio in it, would it be smaller ?

Bitrate and running time are the only two things that dictate filesize - video or audio. So, they should both be the same size - as long as they're at the same bitrate. Even if they're not, the difference won't be worth worrying about...

No, doesn't matter that they're separate files. Any good authoring program will accept elementary streams (separate audio and video files).

Adding in AC3, or having the audio in a footage.mpg file - no difference.

Also another thing that had me thinking, when I encoded this I set the audio bite rate to 1536. Well when I converted the wav file to ac3 is that still the audio size, if so is it just that wav files take up more space ?

Mmmm.... I'll answer the question by explaining how bitrate and file size and codec are linked:

WAV is uncompressed. It needs 1,536 kilobytes per second of audio (kbps) to store all that uncompressed info.

Applying a codec, like AC3 or MP2, is a set of rules that (very basically) says "chuck away the stuf that you can't hear (or see for video) and use this fancy algorithm to store what's left in a smaller file" - a bit like zipping only the stuff that's needed.

The parameter that sets how much to chuck away / how much to compress is the bitrate.


So, that's why WAVs take up more space and why AC3 or MP2 is very very close (in terms of quality) to the original, but a much smaller file size.

[daamon]

Audio : 268 MB, 1536 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, 0x1 = MS PCM, Supported

Your source file contains WAV audio. You can (should be able to) load your source file into ffmpeggui - no need to extract the audio with VitrualDub. If ffmpeggui don't like your source file, you'll have to revert to VirtualDub.

Also I got this when I tried to author it
*The capacity of the DVD is exceeded.

The estimated size of the DVD folder you are about to create is 4627MB.
This exceeds the capacity of a 4.7GB DVD of about 4437 MB.

Is that really big ? I thought if the file size was 4627mb that it would only be 627 mb over. Maybe I got the mb=gb alittle wrong. Any comments on the size ? Or wait, is the 4437 number the amount of mb on a dvd disc. I think I read that wrong.

No, it's only slightly over. Yeah - The final product (video, audio, [b]menus and subtitles[b] etc.) is estimated at 4,627Mb and the total available disc space is 4,437Mb.

I'd guess that it's your menus etc. that are taking you over the max. You either have to go for simpler menus (so taking up less room), no menus, or re-encode the video at a slightly lower bitrate.

Of course, on this one occasion where you're learning / experimenting, you could cheat and use DVDShrink coz you won't need much of a compression to get it to fit... The quality will still be good, and it'll probably be quicker.

Just out of interest, what bitrate did you use for your AC3 audio? Did you go for the 192kbps I suggested?

[90blackcrx]

Actually the menu only took up 2mb nothing big. I watched the new authored files on my computer and it still seems blurry. I'm gonna burn it and compare it to the other dvd I burned that I had to shrink.

When I file has to be shrunk down by dvd shrink, what does it make smaller, the bitrate ?

[daamon]

Strange - Something is wrong somewhere then... Did you get the running time right and so the right bitrate for the video?

You didn't say what bitrate you used for the audio...

Yes - In effect, DVDShrink reduces the bitrate to get the files to fit. It's more complicated than that, but that's the nuts 'n' bolts of it... Look up "transcoding" if you're interested...

[90blackcrx]

Strange - Something is wrong somewhere then... Did you get the running time right and so the right bitrate for the video?

You didn't say what bitrate you used for the audio...

Got the running time right.

Audio bite rate was set at 1536 because thats what tmpge was putting it at, when I used the bitrate calculator I put 192 because thats what I thought you told me to put.

I watched the new video I made, it does still seem a little blurry but it could just be the video. The video is from the net and ment to be played on the net. Its a drag racing video so its not like it was original a dvd video. But I have downloaded other videos like this and they seemed to be a little clearer.

So next time encode it, the audio bitrate will be at 192 this time, also can I do everything the same, and just convert the wav file into an ac3 file, anything wrong with doing it that way ?

[daamon]

Plugging 192 into the bitrate calculator is right.

As it's downloaded material, I'd point my finger at that for the blurryness. I use the exact same process as I've talked you through, but use DV AVI and my results are always nice and clear.

Yep - Do everything the same. Convert either the extracted WAV, or put your source into ffmpeggui if it accepts it and then produce your AC3.

I'm still niggled by why you're only ever so slightly over the limit after authoring. The causes are:

1. Using WAV by mistake instead of a compressed audio (when you meant to).
2. Using too high a bitrate on your video. Always check with the bitrate calculator.
3. Putting too low an audio bitrate into the bitrate calculator, compared to what you actually used.
4. Not leaving enough room for menus / subs etc.

Can't think of any others...

Good luck.

[90blackcrx]

I'm still niggled by why you're only ever so slightly over the limit after authoring. The causes are:

1. Using WAV by mistake instead of a compressed audio (when you meant to).
2. Using too high a bitrate on your video. Always check with the bitrate calculator.
3. Putting too low an audio bitrate into the bitrate calculator, compared to what you actually used.
4. Not leaving enough room for menus / subs etc.

Can't think of any others...

Good luck.

1. Used all ac3 files for sure

2. The bitrate calculator actually told me I could go to 7,2** but I went down to 7,000 so I actually went down.

3. This is where I think the problem was, tmpge encoding said the audio bitrate was gonna be 1536, well you told me to put 192 in the calculator. So I did, thats probably where the problem happened, don't you think ?

4. My menu only took up 2 kb, nothing major, I actually put no menus and it still went over.

I really think number 3 is where it went wrong. I'm not blaiming you, just want to find the problem on where it happened. So what do you think ?

Also whats the difference between ES and system stream in tmpge encode, I swear last time I had it on system video+audio but this time its set at ES. Really wondering what this means and does it matter at all.

Also I had at the end to have audio and video file as one, I think it said mp2 and mpg. If I did it this way would I have to convert the audio files at all ?

[daamon]

1. OK.

2. Yes, I got the same.

3. Mmmm... I'm still not so sure on this one. See, if you've got a video.m2v then it doesn't matter what you did with the audio in TMPGEnc. You did the audio externally to TMPGenc, so it's of no influence.

This is gonna sound paranoid, but can you double check the running time of your video footage, and the fact that you put it into the bitrate calculator properly? Sorry...

4. 2kb or 2Gb. The fact that you did no menus and it still went over let's this one off the hook...

As for ES and System Stream - re-read my posts, I've explained it a few times...

If you get an file.mpg from TMPGEnc with the setting as "System Stream (audio and video)" it'll have MP2 audio in so no need to encode audio separately.

Or, if you chose "Elementary Streams (audio and video)" you'll get separate files video.m2v and audio.mp2. Again, no need to do audio conversion with ffmpeggui.

That's me for tonight, and probably the weekend. Have a good'un...

[90blackcrx]

Or, if you chose "Elementary Streams (audio and video)" you'll get separate files video.m2v and audio.mp2. Again, no need to do audio conversion with ffmpeggui.

That's me for tonight, and probably the weekend. Have a good'un...

Well I got mpeg audio file, I'm still gonna convert it to ac3 because I did that before.

The movie file could be a tad bigger I'll check

I know I did not do the 2 -pass vbr because I figured it would take a lot longer. Will this make the quality lesser ?

Edited from before, no need to convert to ac3 because the files are gonna be the same. I'll post in a few secs to see if I went over this time. And I just made another movie and yes it went over but I was told this movie was 88 minutes long when really its about 90. The file is 4653 big, does that sound like the 2 mins I did not calculate made me go over ?

By the way, just for fun, whats the smallest bitrate you should go when it comes to video and whats thie highest you can go ?

Oh yeah one more thing, ok so once I burn this movie onto a dvd, say my friend wants a copy. Whats the best way to go about this, can I just put the dvd in my dvd player on my pc and then use dvd shrink to burn it ? Or can I use dvd decrypt to extract the files and just burn them. Are these 2 ways ok ? Which one would be better, sometimes my pc does not recognize dvd's in my dvd player so that's why I have to use dvd decrypter sometimes.

[daamon]

If you didn't use 2-Pass VBR, what did you do?

Was it 1-pass VBR (not sure if that would even work)?

Did you do CBR at the 7,000 bitrate? That could be why it went over, though unlikely.

Did you do CQ? Never used it, so not sure how that'd affect the filesize.

I'd say to set off a 2-Pass VBR running overnight at the calculated bitrate... And, yes, the extra 2 mins could make the difference.

The smallest bitrate for full D1 resolution and 1/2 D1 resolution - I've already covered rough figures in an earlier post.

Copies - As long as it's not copyrighted material, you'll be OK doing it (from a legal point, physically it's still do-able).

Just do a straight DVD to DVD copy using Nero (a version that supports DVDs). Or, failing that, copy the folders and files using Windows Explorer and burn using your favourite burner. No need to rip as it's not encoded.

[90blackcrx]

I used the cbr set up, and by using that it takes all night to encode about 6 files. I think it went over because the movies were a few mins longer.

How much longer will it take if I do the 2 pass if 1 pass takes about 9 hours for 6 files or about 1 hour and 40 mins per file.

Also nero always fails to copy a dvd when I do it, don't know why either.

And I looked over thie thread and you did mention 5000 is about the min for video bitrate, but what is the max. Is there

[daamon]

In theory, CBR and VBR at the same bitrate should produce the same filesizes. However, due to the complexity of the compression algorithm's involved, this isn't always the case - though they're not too far apart.

Likewise for the estimated filesize for a given bitrate (be it CBR or VBR) - it's not always dead on, but always pretty close.

2-Pass VBR at the same bitrate will take twice as long as the single pass CBR (or thereabouts).

Not sure why either - could be you need to upgrade... But, at least there's a work around as I said in the previous post.

The max allowed by the specs is in the "What Is... DVD" link in the top left of the page. In summary:

9,800kbps for video
1,536kbps for audio
Noting that the "total bitrate including video, audio and subs can be max 10.08 Mbps (10080 kbps)"

[90blackcrx]

I see, ok thanks

You ever run into a problem or hear of a problem with tring to encode to many files at once, like a batch I mean.

TMPGE gives you the option to, well I tried doing 7 files and the program started to give me weird stats like on the 7th file, like it was telling me it exceded the regular dvd disc by 1223343454546656 the number basically never ended. Could I just put to many files in for it to encode ? I would have to think this was the reason. I tried putting in a different file but it still yielded the same result. It also automaticly kept changing the resolution also, instead of 728 it was the one lower.

Also is there any easy way to change the stats so I don't have to keep re-entering them, probably in the options but I thought I would ask.

[daamon]

Hi,

No, I've never encoded more than one file at a time so haven't used the batch function - I compile all my clips in Premiere (where I do my editing) and then frameserve to TMPGEnc.

Though, I am surprised that it can't handle more than 6 files. Have you scanned the 7th file for bad frames? Use VirtualDub...

Not sure what you mean by "changing the stats" - I'm guessing you mean the resolution, bitrate settings etc. - the user defined stuff? If that's the case, save as a template as suggested in my post of "04 Nov, 2004 11:03".

[90blackcrx]

It turned out to be the file, for some reason it was corupted or what ever you want to call it. I'll mess around with the templet option.

This thread has really been a ton of help, thank you. If I remember anything else I'll ask it here.

[daamon]

It's usually the source rather than the process - for the main reason that so many people do things a similar way with the same or similar tools and have no problems. The only variable is the input files...

I'm glad you've found it useful - I've enjoyed helping. By all means do...

So, where d'you stand now? I'd hope that you can encode both audio and video, author it and get it on one disc with good (acceptable) quality without having to shrink...

[90blackcrx]

Yep I can get them on a disc and they do not freeze well none have yet.

I was just wondering, what is the average video bitrate of a dvd from the stores ? Just want to see what I have to shoot for.

[daamon]

Yep I can get them on a disc and they do not freeze well none have yet.

Success then?

I was just wondering, what is the average video bitrate of a dvd from the stores ? Just want to see what I have to shoot for.

I'd say, from what I've seen, around 5 - 6,000kbps. If your DVD player has the facility, get it to show the bitrate while it's playing.

If you're wondering how they get such good quality at that bitrate - it's coz they're commercially made with TONS of cash thrown to ensure the best quality at each stage of the film making process. Suffice to say, they don't use miniDV cams...

[jimmalenko]

I'd say, from what I've seen, around 5 - 6,000kbps. If your DVD player has the facility, get it to show the bitrate while it's playing.

I think you'll find that the average is somewhere around this mark (easy to work out with a bitrate calculator), but the instantaneous bitrate fluctuates quite a bit. A good test is to use PowerDVD and turn on Show Information. This shows you in realtime the fluctuations in bitrate, or if you are into graphs, check out Bitrate Viewer.

If you're wondering how they get such good quality at that bitrate - it's coz they're commercially made with TONS of cash thrown to ensure the best quality at each stage of the film making process. Suffice to say, they don't use miniDV cams...

Naturally, the hardware encoders they can afford are much much better than any that are available for the consumer in either hardware or software.

[90blackcrx]

I see, I would of really thought the bitrate would of been higher.

So is higher video bitrate always better ? Tmpge always has it set at 8,000 so that seems to be where its at but I really don't know.

[jimmalenko]

I see, I would of really thought the bitrate would of been higher.

Which one ?

5-6,000 kbps is where the average normally sits (If your film goes for 100 minutes, you can easily plug this into Videohelp.com's bitrate calculator and find the average video bitrate if you know the audio bitrate. The maximum values these films get up to is generally in the high 8,000's, some even into the 9,000's. And like I said, they have the best equipment, so their equipment doing something at 5,000 kbps is possibly comparable to our equipment and software doing it at 7-8,000 kbps.

See the difference ?

[90blackcrx]

Yep. thanks