Freezing freezing freezing, how come ?

[daamon]

Hadn't thought of that . I guess that's the problem with living in different time zones!

I suppose, in a way, you are encoding twice. But I've done it loads of times and it doesn't negatively affect the quality of your audio. The end result will be audio that you can't distinguish from the original and will be in a compressed format that is OK for DVD and won't (shouldn't) have any synch issues.

No need to download the calculator - click on the link and it takes you to a page in this site that does it for you.

[90blackcrx]

So for this bitrate calculator, should I add up all the files for how long they play, or should I do it one at a time ? I'm guessing add up all the times or else the calculator will max out for the 1 file thinking it has more space.

[daamon]

I'm guessing add up all the times or else the calculator will max out for the 1 file thinking it has more space.

Exactly that... Don't forget to plug in the correct audio bitrate.

When you come to encoding, reduce the bitrate by about 50kbps - this will leave enough space for menus during authoring, if you're gonna have them that is... I guess you are.

[90blackcrx]

I'm guessing add up all the times or else the calculator will max out for the 1 file thinking it has more space.

Exactly that... Don't forget to plug in the correct audio bitrate.

When you come to encoding, reduce the bitrate by about 50kbps - this will leave enough space for menus during authoring, if you're gonna have them that is... I guess you are.

Where do I find the audio bitrate of the files ?

[90blackcrx]

I clicked properties and came up with this

bitrate 1536 kb
audio sample size 16 bit, is it 16 then ?

[daamon]

In that case, that's most likely an uncompressed WAV file.

Plug this into ffmpeggui to convert to either MP2 or AC3 (see previous posts for info on these). Then you'll have a compressed audio file that's acceptable in the DVD format for your region.

When authoring, you use the video output from TMPGEnc and the compressed audio from ffmpeggui as your input sources.

[90blackcrx]

But I know the audio is already compressed and I know the audio will work in a dvd player because I did a sample burn, should I still do that thing ffmpeggui

I think with the bit calculator I'm gonna leave what the audio bitrate is set at, and then just go between the max and min bitrate, does this sound good ?

Also you said

Don't think in terms of equal Gb per file - it all depends on the length of time and the bitrate. Two AVIs could run for the same time, but the resultant encoded MPEGs could be different sizes if they require different bitrates.

See I was getting cofused about the calculator because it just ask for time and not size, but you said all you have to do is look at length and time. So as long as I follow the calculator I should be good correct ?

[daamon]

Use AVICodec or GSpot on your audio file - post the info from that.

What's the extension of the file? Is it the result of extracting it from the AVI using VirtualDub?

Even if it is compressed (of some kind) a bitrate of 1536kbps means that it'll take a lot of valuable space that could be used by the video element, meaning that the video will have to be at a lower bitrate and so a lower quality than you could achieve.

So, if it's a WAV definitely run it through ffmpeggui to compress it to AC3 or MP2 at around 192kbps.

As an experiment, put the audio at 1536 in the bitrate calculator and see what bitrate you get for the video.

Do the same, but with the audio at 192 - the bitrate for the video will be higher meaning better quality.

[90blackcrx]

Just to clear things up, those last stats were the wrong file. I was getting the stats from the file that was not encoded or authored yet.

The file is an vob file, I tried using gspot but it does not support the type of file. When I put the file in tmpge to encode the audio bit rate is set at 1536

I'm really just trying to save a few steps, if I don't have to mess with the audio that would be great but it looks like I'm gonna have to. Can't tmpge do any of the audio stuff ?

Let me ask this though, I posted this before and I kept editing my post so you might not of caught it.

Quote:
Don't think in terms of equal Gb per file - it all depends on the length of time and the bitrate. Two AVIs could run for the same time, but the resultant encoded MPEGs could be different sizes if they require different bitrates.

See I was getting cofused about the calculator because it just ask for time and not size, but you said all you have to do is look at length and time. So as long as I follow the calculator I should be good, will the files fit on a disc ?

[daamon]

The file is an m2v file, I tried using gspot but it does not support the type of file.

Use AVICodec - that will be OK. Problem is file.m2v is video, so you had the right file in the first place - I'm guessing it was a WAV because of the 1,536kbps.

I'm really just trying to save a few steps, if I don't have to mess with the audio that would be great but it looks like I'm gonna have to.

You don't have to, but if you don't your video quality will suffer, or you'll be able to put less video on one disc. Your call... It's really not that hard.

See I was getting cofused about the calculator because it just ask for time and not size, but you said all you have to do is look at length and time. So as long as I follow the calculator I should be good, will the files fit on a disc ?

Yes.

I'm gonna do a separate post to summarise where we're at and what you should do - we've explored a lot of things and I think it'll be of use. Give me a few mins to type it out...

[90blackcrx]

Little thing to fix up, the file that is gonna be burned that has been authored is a vob file. Also when I put the original file to encode it said the audio bit rate is set for 1536, can I change that anyway in tmpge ?

[daamon]

Little thing to fix up, the file that is gonna be burned that has been authored is a vob file. Also when I put the original file to encode it said the audio bit rate is set for 1536, can I change that anyway in tmpge ?

Yes - If you use TMPGEnc to encode the audio you'll get it in MP2. Not sure of the bitrate, you can probably set that - but it'll be well lower than 1,536kbps.

[90blackcrx]

Yes - If you use TMPGEnc to encode the audio you'll get it in MP2. Not sure of the bitrate, you can probably set that - but it'll be well lower than 1,536kbps.

Well in tmpgenc it has the audio bitrate set at 1,536 and I put that in the calculator and it says max video bitrate 8360 but that can't be true because I encoded all my files at 8,000 bitrate last time and there to big.

[daamon]

Well in tmpgenc it has the audio bitrate set at 1,536 and I put that in the calculator and it says max video bitrate 8360 but that can't be true because I encoded all my files at 8,000 bitrate last time and there to big.

That's the source TMPGEnc is telling you about. And, to get a bitrate of 8,360 what running time did you put in? Rhetorical question - don't answer it, jut have a think about it.

Let me do the summary and we'll get you a checklist to follow... Take your hands away from the keyboard...

[daamon]

Summary:

1. You've 6 files that appear to have WAV (uncompressed) audio in.

2. You want them all on one DVD.

3. Add up the total running time and plug this total, along with an audio bitrate of 192 into the bitrate calculator.

4. If the bitrate comes to less than around 5,000 you're gonna need to split it over more than one disc, or reduce the resolution to 1/2 D1. If you go for 1/2 D1 then the bitrate that's calculated can be around 3,000 kbps. Any less and you're gonna need to split anyway.

5. Encode your files with 2-Pass VBR

Full D1 = resolution 720 x 480 / 576 (NTSC / PAL): min = 500, average = XXX from calculator, max = 8,500.

1/2 D1 = resolution 352 x 480 / 576: min = 500, average = XXX, max = 5,000

If you're doing video only - select "Elementary Stream (video only)".

6. Either:

A) Extract the audio from the source files as a WAV using VirtualDub. Then encode to either MP2 or AC3 using ffmpeggui.

or,

B) Encode the audio in TMPGEnc when encoding the video. Select "System Stream (audio and video)". This will give you audio in MP2 producing a file.mpg with audio and video in it.

7. Author with TMPGenc DVD Author using either the file.mpg (audio and video) or separate video.m2v and audio.ac3/mp2 as your inputs.

I'm now off for the afternoon to drink beer / champagne and watch some horse racing (and loads of pretty woman).

If you've got a question, post it real quickly...

[90blackcrx]

Where did you come up with 192 for the audio bitrate ( I know tmpge was putting the audio rate at 1536 )? Anyways I put that in the calculator and the bitrate said I could put 7,000

But do I put 7,000 for each file or do I have to add up all 6 files to get to 7,000 ?

[daamon]

I'll explain 192 another day - trust me, it's fine...

See 3 above.

Right, I'm off. Good luck...

[90blackcrx]

I'll take your word on the bitrate but the last thing that number 3 does not explain.

If my bitrate for the calculator comes out to 7,000 , can I make each of the 6 files that big, or do 6 of the files need to add up to that ? Anyone answer that ?

[90blackcrx]

I'll take your word on the bitrate but the last thing that number 3 does not explain.

If my bitrate for the calculator comes out to 7,000 , can I make each of the 6 files that big, or do 6 of the files need to add up to that ? Anyone answer that ?

Anyone know this, please explain the 192 when you come back ? I am gonna listen to you with the 192 on the calculator even though tmpge says its 1536. I'm encoding all the files with each file getting 7,000 video bitrate. Hopefully this will work. I kind of reread over the replys and it seems like the calculator, calculates the bitrate for each file rather then the hole file. Hopefully I'm making sense. If not please someone correct me. Also the first screen of tmpge I was getting confused but I understand it now accept one thing, there were 2 options for audio. I forgot the two options but one said it could burn up to 255 mins and the other said something like 155, anyone want to shed some light on that ?

Ok I found a pic, see the box in the lower right corner, when its clicked on ntsc dvd it says something different in the pic, anyways anyone tell me which one to pick ?

[daamon]

Hi 90blackcrx - I'm back...

But do I put 7,000 for each file or do I have to add up all 6 files to get to 7,000 ?

3. Add up the total running time and plug this total, along with an audio bitrate of 192 into the bitrate calculator.

Having re-read this, I could have added "and use this bitrate for each file" to make it clearer. Sorry...

...please explain the 192 when you come back...

When encoding from any uncompressed file to a compressed one (be it audio or video) this is done by the use of a "codec" - see the "Glossary" for a better explanation than I'm about to give...

Basically, a codec (compressor / decompressor) is a set of rules or algorithm that are followed to get (in your case) the audio to a smaller size whilst minimizing the effect on the quality. Different codecs achieve different levels of quality.

Part of the rules need to know by how much to reduce the quality. Without going into technicalities (coz I don't know them), the bitrate effectively sets this. There's more to it, but that's the nuts 'n' bolts of it...

A figure of 192kbps is generally accepted (by Joe Public as well as "the experts") to be a good trade off of quality vs. filesize.

Screenshot: From that, I'd guess you're using the wizard. Go way back when you asked for a guide and I provided one... Well, ditch the wizard and configure TMPGEnc manually. That way, you have total control over the settings. Read the guide carefully, and follow it closely - there's loads of very useful info in there and it's easy to miss it...

When you find a configuration you like, save it as a template. Don't over-write an existing one...

I'm off to bed... Good luck.

[90blackcrx]

I'll try messing with tmpge a little more, I tried doing the thing where you load a new templet, but I probably messed up some where, because it was not working. I actually was reading the tips and trouble shooting guide from this site. I unlocked the audio setting on tmpge but it will not let me change the audio bitrate, anyone have a clue why ?

I want to make sure where talking about the same thing on t he 192 bitrate, when I put the file to encode in tmpge it said the audio bitrate was 1536, so I thought I would put 1536 that in the calculator but you told me 192 so I did.

Maybe we are talking about the same thing and I need to reread what you put.

Also I just went to author the files, and it says the files are 7001gb big, I am hoping dvd shrink will be able to shrink this enough to fit on a disk. Do you know the max size a file can be that dvd shrink can shrink ? I am expecting dvd shrink to shrink the files I just hope it will with this.

[90blackcrx]

To add to what I said above, dvd shrink can shrink it. It says 54.9 %, pretty sure thats how much it shrinked it. I am gonna see if the quality comes out good, I am almost sure it will because I think I have shrinked something before like this.

So another thing, when I was using nero to burn a dvd, if it was to big I would turn down the bitrate, sometimes getting as low as 2700 for the bitrate. So the way I did it this time, with me encoding it and authoring it, should be a lot better looking correct ?

[daamon]

If it looks good to you then it's a solution - but, to me, you're still over-complicating the process.

You're gonna have to help me to help you... As I've asked before, use AVICodec or GSpot on your source files and post the details here. If they're the same, only post one. From that, I'll be able to tell what your source is and what best to do.

Also, post the running time of each of the 6 files and / or the total running time (in minutes). I need that too...

In the meantime, I shall try to find time to look at TMPGEnc at home to see what you're referring to regarding it reporting the audio bitrate. Can you post a screenshot?

I don't know why you've got a 7Gb file - it could be due to having uncompressed WAV still, or the bitrate used in encoding was too high somehow... EDIT: I came across this thread and wondered if that was your problem. It hints at the solution in there too...

Use AVICodec on the VOBs (not sure if it works) to see what the audio format is. If it doesn't, I think playing them on your PC with something like WinDVD or PowerDVD and right-clicking allows you to access file info.

Seriously, if you follow my steps in the "Summary" I gave earlier (I'd recommend doing video only in TMPGEnc and the audio with VirtualDub then ffmpeggui as AC3) then you'll be fine and you want have to use DVDShrink...

[90blackcrx]

Ok I'll do some of the things you have said. And I'll post back

But to add, I just finished burning the dvd and it came out good, I did not get to watch it fully but I went threw all the chapters and before if there was an error some where, the movie would not get past it. But this movie went all the way to the end, well just about. Like I said I was not able to watch it all. Quality seems good, I'm gonna compare it to the other dvd I burned but it was just 2 chapters I burned before, so there was no shrinking.

On another note, for some reason the menu did not burn, I made the menu with tmpge author. Its just not there. Don't have any clue why either.

Also the movie is 1 hour and 22 minutes so thats 82 minutes.

[90blackcrx]

When I loaded the file into avicodec it said

lpcm audio streams not yet handled

I copied this from the program


File : 1023 MB (0.0 B), duration: 0:00:00, type: MPG, 0 audio stream(s), quality: 88 %

Video : 1023 MB, 7000 Kbps, 29.970 fps, 720*480 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD), Supported

Also in the other post the guy said
I guess you have selected PCM audio on the first page of the wizard.
Change it to MPEG-1 Layer II Audio (MP2).
Yep I have it set to pcm audio, so if I switch to mpeg-1 layer II audio what will this do ? Will the file be smaller ?

Also here is the pic, see the audio bitrate, mine was set at 1536 and I could not lower it at all. I unlocked it but still could not change the number



I will add, if this means anything. After I encoded it, in the folder there were the 6 m2v files but there was also 6 wave files.

Also the movie does seem a little blurry so I guess I shrunk it to much. So I encode just the video, then extract the audio from what file ? The original ? Then run it threw ac3. I also was messing with tempgenc and now I can change the audio bite rate to 192, will this make the files a lot smaller now ?

Also you said before

A) Extract the audio from the source files as a WAV using VirtualDub. Then encode to either MP2 or AC3 using ffmpeggui.

or,

B) Encode the audio in TMPGEnc when encoding the video. Select "System Stream (audio and video)". This will give you audio in MP2 producing a file.mpg with audio and video in it.

Will the file come out to be the same size either way, or if I encode just the video and use virtual dub will the file be smaller ?

[daamon]

You got me really baffled now...

The results from AVICodec state that the file is an MPEG2 @7,000kbps - a DVD compliant file. Then, the screenshot is for a VCD - what's going on?

Also, I asked for you to use AVICodec on your source files. If you did, then they're already DVD compliant and can be authored as they are - of course, you won't get 6 to a DVD disc as they stand...

Changing the audio to MP2 will give you a much smaller audio file, meaning that you can can more video = more bitrate = better quality.

[90blackcrx]

You got me really baffled now...

The results from AVICodec state that the file is an MPEG2 @7,000kbps - a DVD compliant file. Then, the screenshot is for a VCD - what's going on?

Also, I asked for you to use AVICodec on your source files. If you did, then they're already DVD compliant and can be authored as they are - of course, you won't get 6 to a DVD disc as they stand...

Changing the audio to MP2 will give you a much smaller audio file, meaning that you can can more video = more bitrate = better quality.

Sorry the screen shots I took from this website.

I did the avicodec thing, this is what it produced.

lpcm audio streams not yet handled

I copied this from the program


File : 1023 MB (0.0 B), duration: 0:00:00, type: MPG, 0 audio stream(s), quality: 88 %

Video : 1023 MB, 7000 Kbps, 29.970 fps, 720*480 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD), Supported

So since I already encoded it and have the video file and a wav file, do I need to encode again or can I just convert the wav file to mp2.

[daamon]

OK - I think I'm getting it together again...

It looks like you've encoded the source at the right bitrate (based on the timings you gave and using compressed audio), but have ended up with WAV audio aswell (because of what you set in the wizard).

You've got 6 x video.m2v and 6 x audio.wav files. Next time, choose "Elementary Stream (video only)" in TMPGEnc and you should only get the video.m2v files.

Luckily, the audio files are separate. Just take each WAV file and run it through ffmpeggui to get an MP2 or AC3 audio file. Encode at 192kbps for now (no more than 224 for a really good source).

You're framerate and resolution indicate you're in NTSC-land (Hint: Update your profile with your location...) - I'd suggest go for AC3 over MP2 coz MP2 isn't in the NTSC specs, even though the majority of NTSC players are OK with MP2, it's not guaranteed.

[90blackcrx]

So let me get this straight, so now I take the wav file and convert it to ac3 correct. Then I reauthor and reburn and I should be good ?

See I thought when I encoded them, the audio and video would be combined. Oh well, so next time I just pick es video and then etract the original audio from the source file and then convert ? I shouldn't do it like I did this last one, where it made it into a wav ? This way I would not have to extract the video just convert.

[daamon]

So let me get this straight, so now I take the wav file and convert it to ac3 correct. Then I reauthor and reburn and I should be good ?

Yes.

See I thought when I encoded them, the audio and video would be combined.

Only if you choose "System stream (video and audio)" - resulting in one file, a "System Stream".

I'm guessing you had "Elementary streams (video and audio)" - resulting in both video and audio, but not combined. - i.e. 2 x elementary streams.

Oh well, so next time I just pick es video and then etract the original audio from the source file and then convert ? I shouldn't do it like I did this last one, where it made it into a wav ?

Correct on both counts.