Cheapest PAL output DVD player w/o quality sacrifice

[CaZeek]

Hello,
I started talking about this in a previous thread a few days ago concerning PAL -> NTSC conversion, but I got some mixed answers, so I'm giving it a shot in its own post. Basically, I'm looking for a DVD player that will output PAL DVDs without a quality loss. I don't need any exciting features or anything fancy. I would just be using this for the sole purpose of playing PAL DVDs into a digital standards converter to convert the DVD into NTSC. Any suggestions for a nice, cheap player that will do simply what I'm looking for? Keep in mind, I need it to have an S-Video out.

Here's one I'm looking at: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?tab=1&type=product&id=1077624500910&skuId=6373...oryId=cat03013

[lordsmurf]

You cannot. The "PAL" output is not PAL output. It's NTSC-50. If you want true PAL, you need to import a unit from a PAL country.

[hech54]

If you want true PAL, you need to import a unit from a PAL country.

WRONG
If the player starts to play the PAL DVD without any prompting you to change anything....then yes it is most likely how Smurf says.
Just take the PAL DVD with you to Best Buy and stick it in an Apex.



This is a letter sent to a friend on mine in the US regarding her conversion inquiry.
Dear Kim,
Thank you for contacting Apex Customer Service Center, with your inquiry
regarding the conversion of the PAL to NTSC format in the DVD player. Most of the Apex DVD players can convert PAL to NTSC format. Please note if there is a 'P/N' button in the unit's remote control. However, if you could send us an email with the correct model number of the product, we will be glad to research and assist you better.
This machine is a truly multimedia device made for the world to enjoy and
we hope that you will have a wonderful experience with the unit. Please feel free to email us for further clarification. Thank you for choosing Apex for all your Electronic needs.
Regards,
Bryan Curtney.
Customer Service Department.
Apex Digital Inc.

[CaZeek]

We went through this whole conversation in the previous thread. The result of that discussion was that outputting an NTSC source in an NTSC capable PAL unit will give off a quasi-PAL signal, but this is not the same for playing a PAL source in a PAL capable NTSC unit, where the PAL will still be pure PAL. The evidence I found seemed to have backed this up, as I could not find anything about a quasi-NTSC signal, but I did find several articles discussing the opposite. Of course I'm always open to new information

[lordsmurf]

If you get a player that is an "all-world" type player (example: Cyberhome 300), where you can change the output type, and it registers as true PAL, then you're fine (I've not tested mine, but it looks to be true PAL). Most of these all-world units are not marked as such, tend to be cheap (in cost and quality), and sometimes have the option available only in hidden menus or with hacks. Note that quite a few of these refuse to let you actually change it to PAL unless it senses a PAL tv or output device (rolling B&W signal on NTSC tv).

If this option is not available, then the output is not PAL, it's quasi-NTSC.

Hech54, that person at Apex is an idiot. The units do not convert. That would cost a lot, probably in the $300 range. The most it can do is as I explained above: to play a signal as native, or to quasi-output it.

And while a VCR may not be too picky about quasi signals, digital equipment is. Quasi signals are easy to spot: they're jerky to a small degree, have interlace oddities, may have ghosts, color is too saturated, may have hissy audio (from PAL MP2 spec), and are generally cropped video resolution (not resized). With a true converted signal, you do not get these problems (well, some minor interlace oddities may still exist).

[hech54]

Hech54, that person at Apex is an idiot. The units do not convert. That would cost a lot, probably in the $300 range. The most it can do is as I explained above: to play a signal as native, or to quasi-output it.

Then how do you explain my $50 Apex clone Skantic DVD Player converting on the fly TO MY PHILIPS DVD RECORDER....which does not record a quasi signal?

Here is a DVDDecrypter screenshot of a project I did for my brother. It is a DVD of an NTSC Only VHS Christmas with Vince Gill. First I put the NTSC tape to DVD with my Philips. Placed that NTSC DVD into my Skantic....set it for PAL output....then recorded it again to an RW....again back into my Philips.
As you can see...it is now PAL.

[mikesbytes]

What you need is a DVD that doesn't convert the video. Most DVD's have the option of playback in PAL or NTSC (and will convert to the target, usually with jerky results), what you want is one that also has the option AUTO. This ususaly means that it outputs the format that is on the disk. The next thing is to ensure that your TV will accept PAL input. Most modern TV's will accept it.

[CaZeek]

I understand where people are getting what I'm saying mixed up now. I understand that I do not want a play that does "on the fly conversions". I'm looking for a player that will actually play a PAL disk and output PAL.

Note that quite a few of these refuse to let you actually change it to PAL unless it senses a PAL tv or output device (rolling B&W signal on NTSC tv).

The external converter I'm looking at allows you to manually select the input signal, so I could set it to PAL, so that the player would sense the PAL device.

So back to the original question now. Given this information, I am looking for a player, as I tried to state before that will take a PAL disk and output PAL. The cheapest player without a quality loss would be fine.

Thank you =)

[lifeisfun]

KiSS 500/508 will do that but it ain't cheap

[lets]

I am looking for a player, as I tried to state before that will take a PAL disk and output PAL

Philips 642 wiil do it. You have to change output to PAL in setup. it's NTSC by default when you get it from BestBuy.

[CaZeek]

That sounds great then. After I posted, I noticed that that model seems to be extremely popular around these boards. Hopefully that's a good sign

[lifeisfun]

The ESS chipset isn't the greatest in quality of picture but the price is right

[lifeisfun]

Also Yamada 6000 or 6600 with MTK chipset will do what you need ....

[MOVIEGEEK]

You need a "multisystem" DVD player:
www.110220volts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DVG-3000N

[CaZeek]

I honestly don't know much about DVD players and their output quality.. what is making one player better than the other? I'm not talking about features, I'm talking about pure picture quality. I'm not understanding why I'm looking at this website with a bunch of different players, all at different prices:
http://www.world-import.com/dvd.htm
These are all region-free, multi-systems players. They range in price from around $40 to $1200.

[lifeisfun]

It is similar to video cards in computers....
Brand name, progressive scan component out
and s-video out is also handy ....

[hech54]

Philips 642 at Best Buy

Philips 642 at World Import.com

One is $70...the other is $110

You need to think about BOTH Region coding (code free) and it's ability to output both PAL and NTSC....don't forget.
Take a PAL disc with you to Best Buy....Circuit City....whatever and tell them your intentions. If you can't even recognize what DVD is playing at that store....it is outputting PAL and it likes the region code of that disc.
You don't need to spend more money to get what you want....what you need is patience and determination.

[CaZeek]

I understand what I need as far as features.. what I'm trying to get at is that I do not want a quality loss when I play the disk. No one has really commented on the quality level of output, other than lifeisfun, who is saying that the 642 isn't the best of quality. I'm assuming the 642 will output PAL (I will test it before I buy it anyway, as you suggest), but keep in mind, picture quality is important. What's the point of spending hundreds on a video converter to maximize quality if I'm going to sacrifice quality with the player I'm using to run into the converter?

[lifeisfun]

I doubt that you be able to see it on PAL TV in Circuit City or Best Buy
I own 642 and 508 KiSS and can tell you that picture on the 508 is way better

[lordsmurf]

The Cyberhome 300 does this okay.
The LiteOn 5001 DVD recorder is supposed to do this quite well also.

Both units are bound to R1, but remote codes fix this.

The Cyberhome will give you a PAL output signal (rolling B&W) on an NTSC tv set.

[CaZeek]

Let me first of all thank everyone for dedicating time to this thread

Secondly, let me try to finish up, and solve the issue with one simple poll. If you were in my situation (as described ad nauseum in this thread and another one a few topics down in this forum), which of the following players would you buy. Keep in mind, I'm looking for the best picture quality of the following players (all under $130):

1) Cyberhome 300
2) Philips DVP 642
3) Philips DVP 520
4) Pioneer DV 275-S
5) Pioneer DV-366-k
6) Daewoo DVG-3000N
7) Add a different reccomendation

Thanks again, and I hope this will get to the bottom of it =)

[lets]

I know only two models - Cyberhome 300 and Philips DVP 642. I tested both on PAL TV. The problem with Cyberhome is that it didn't play some DVD-Rs and even one "real DVD", but Philips played those disks without any problems. The best picture quality is not easy to determine if you have nothing to compare with.

[hech54]

I've been trying to track down this Akai DVDP5851 locally for a few weeks now as a replacement to my aging Skantic. I've come very close....there MUST be one around here somewhere. I think I've found every Akai model number except this one...

[macleod]

The apex line does, IMO, a great job. They are in the sub $40 range. On most of them, you can play VCD/SVCD/CVD, etc. on them. I think that the dvd palyer section on the left has a spot for PAL/NTSC "conversion".

[Richard_G]

Rather than trying to get a player in the US that might or might not give the correct output, why not get a genuine PAL DVD player from a supplier in PAL land? This will play PAL DVDs and output PAL, they will also play NTSC DVDs and output either PAL60 or NTSC depending on how you set them.

This one will do the job very nicely It's a Dabs branded Ronin P215.

http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/homeentertainment/homeaudiovideo/productView.htm?quicklinx=2SQ9

[jman98]

Various Apex players and the Philips DVP642 will output a true PAL signal. As far as quality goes, you need to be the judge of that. I see people posting about how the DVP642 is not that good and frankly, I think it is pretty good. Quality is totally subjective and you need to go to a store and try out some players and make up your own mind.

[Severity]

The 642 does have less than good picture quailty. If you paln to play on a big screen than quailty is not an issue. But if you plan on playing on a tube or high def. set, you will see a difference, unless you are blind.

[lordsmurf]

The Apex players are quite bad, because they usually crop the signal, whether or not the output is set to true PAL or not. Thus, it's not really true PAL output.

[CaZeek]

Just found some reviews at Cnet and links/info from consumersearch.com for the Pioneer DV-578A-S. It's getting great reviews for audio and video quality (as well as compatible with almost all formats). I also know that Pioneer is known for its compatibility, so this seems like it may be the way to go. It's available at Best Buy for 99.99 (though it's out of stock at the website, you can purchase it at local stores). As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it's going to be hard to test the true quality of players at the store unless they plan on hooking up several players to a digital TV- not sure if they do that, but we'll see

[lifeisfun]

Divx on Pioneer sucks
Also NO firmware upgrades .....