Womble MPEG editor filtering inconsistencies

[neuroslicer]

I've been editing/restoring episodes of My Living Doll using Womble's MPEG Video Wizard 2003 (I love this program!) but have noticed a quirk, or else I'm doing something wrong. So here's my question. After capturing the VHS tape with Pinnacle's Studio 8 (VHS player plugged into the A/D conversion box), I load the video file into MPEG VW. Because there is some video noise at the bottom and right side of the capture, I want to use the crop filter to edit that noise out and expand the size of the video to fill the entire TV screen. So I adjust how many pixels I want to crop out on top, bottom and sides, and then drag the crop filter to the video time line. (I then see the little filter icon appear on the timeline as it should). In the output window, I see that the video image has been successfully cropped. But when I export/render that edited video to an MPEG2 file, the new MPEG2 file is unchanged from the original. I know I am exporting properly, because other filters work fine (brightness/contrast, color balance, even the clipper filter). But neither the crop filter nor the translation filter seem to appear in the exported MPEG2 (although they appear in the output window). Anyone have any suggestions? I would use the clipper filter to delete the video noise but then my image is reduced in size.

[gshelley61]

Don't crop or filter in MPEG Video Wizard. Simple edits only. Filtering, cropping, transitions, etc. forces Womble to do a complete re-encode of the file, which is very undesirable.

The edge flaws you see in your capture are normal for VHS and are well outside the overscan area on televisions (you won't see them, in other words).

[JeffM]

Well, if you want to play them on your laptop or computer, you will see it, and I would say it
is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Does MVW have resizing and cropping tools? I thought it only had simple text and graphics
effects which can be inserted. Like you can place a black graphics bar over the bad pixels
or something like that.

[DaveS]

neuroslicer - what steps are you doing in S8..e.g. when do you convert to mpeg? If you are capturing an avi in S8, you are better off cropping it there and then converting to mpeg, as opposed to cropping the existing mpeg file (as per gshelley61)...what steps are you doing in studio? and, if you are just watching it on a tv, it's not worth the effor to crop usually

[vhelp]

The only time when you should crop is when you are encoding from an AVI file.
Why ??
.
.
Because *you* have total control of your final MPEG-2 final output, and also
because you can save a tadd here or there, in the final bitrate -to- quality.
.
.
But, when you are using a hardware device (ie, hardware mpeg-2 int card or ext
card; or one of those set-top DVD Recorder) these will be final, and they do
not offer any cropping (none that I know of) and as such, you would just leave
it as is, because in the end, you wont see it. Also, because most likely,
your Hardware Capture Device will be using CBR mode anyways, and since this
is basically a "constant" bitrate (with minor flux, depending on card) there
won't really be any bitrate savings or quality gains.
Some device (speaking of set-top DVD Recorders) might offer (in addition to
CBR) a VBR encoding mode too. But, I don't really know how well they handle
the quality.

After digging out my old Womble MPEG'er app ...

If you are using Womble's mepg app (I've ben playing around with it, after
capturing some stuff off the air w/ my DVD Xpress box) and when you make your
edits (and copy it to the container window to your left) you are suppose
to dbl-click that icon (edited clip) and then click on the barrell button at
the bottom of the mpeg window, and select (o) MPEG-2 Program Stream
and then press the [OK] button, and watch it save *that* cut to disk.

However, I feel that Womble is slightly effecting the mpeg-2 file because
BV (bitrate viewer) shows me somethign a little different on the graph, than
what my original complete mpeg-2 file looks like when I run it through completely
So, I'm a little skepticle about weather or not Womble is doing anything to
the mpeg-2 or not. We need a definate answer, but I'm not qualified to
answer that.

-vhelp

[gshelley61]

Well, if you want to play them on your laptop or computer, you will see it, and I would say it
is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Does MVW have resizing and cropping tools? I thought it only had simple text and graphics
effects which can be inserted. Like you can place a black graphics bar over the bad pixels
or something like that.

MVW does have a cropping feature. But, like I said, it has to re-encode the MPEG2 video when it is used. If someone wants clean edges from a VHS capture, it would be best to start with AVI, then crop and encode.

[Offroad]

Filtering, cropping, transitions, etc. forces Womble to do a complete re-encode of the file.

gshelley61: I'm using WMVW for editing captures from my JVC DVD recorder and I love it for cuts as its fast and accurate. On my home video captures this works great, but I have some HDNet concert recordings that I'd like to add fade in and outs between the songs I kept.

Womble doesn't recode the video except during the fade, but it converts the entire audio to either MP2 or LPCM. I have TMPGEnc DVD author with the AC3 plugin so I can convert back to AC3 for a completely compliant NTSC DVD but I'm probably degrading my audio a bit.

I've been letting Womble convert to LPCM during editing and then having TMPGEnc DVD Author convert back to AC3 during Authoring to minimize the audio quality loss. It seems like this would be better than AC3 to PM2 then back to AC3.

Is there some program that would join the AC3 clips I cut up with WPVW and not recode either the Audio or Video except during my fade in and outs?? I guess this would have to be an editing tool with Cut, Join and Transition features along with an AC3 encoder.

Any help is appreciated, Thanks.

[lordsmurf]

I've been cutting AC3 since I began using Womble MPEGVCR.

[gshelley61]

Any alteration of the video or audio file (other than simple cutting and joining) will force re-encoding of the entire file. Perhaps Sony Vegas can do what you want... but if you want fade ins and outs, I don't see how re-encoding won't occur.

[Offroad]

I've been cutting AC3 since I began using Womble.

Yes, both Womble MPeg-VCR and WMVW will cut and join Video with AC3 audio without any recoding of either Video or Audio as long as you don't use any transitions.

WMVW has a details button you can click on before you start the process and if you have selected fades, it shows that the Video is only recoded at the fade. You can see this when its writing the file, as it slows way down during the fade because its recoding the video during the transition. It fly's through the process until it reaches the next fade.

I don't mind a bit of lost Video and Audio quality "only" during the fade but would like to avoid having the audio completely recoded. I guess since Womble it doesn't have an AC3 encoder it must recode the entire audio when a fade is used. If I could come up with a program that would join my clips, add fades and only recode the Audio "AND" Video during the fade I'd be happy.

Womble is great for cutting out comercials from a program on broadcast TV, cable or satellite because there is a fade to black where there is no audio or video. What I'm doing is cutting out songs I don't want in the middle of a concert, since there is no fade to black to cut on I want to add my own.

Am I correct that converting from AC3 to LPCM then back to AC3 would be prefered over AC3 to MP2 then back to AC3 since the audio is compressed twice instead of three times??

Any other suggestions for a Video tool that will join clips, add fades and only recode on the transitions is greatly appreaciated.

Thanks.