Using two or more DV codecs

[qlizard]

My process for analog capture is to use pass-through on my TRV-33 camcorder. I capture with premiere, edit, and output the .avi file, then import into virtualdub for filtering. I output another .avi from vdub which I encode using procoder. This sounds like an obvious use for frameserving, but I can't get it to work from vdub to procoder. I've got plenty of hard drive space, so I haven't worried much about it.
My question is this. Am I damaging the quality by using two different DV codecs? I think premiere uses the MC codec, and I am using the panasonic in vdub. With either of these, you should be able to go through several repetitions without quality loss, but how about switching from one to another?

[BJ_M]

read this

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240038&highlight=

[vhelp]

I too, have ben wondering about this also.

When I capture my DV through firewire, the fact remains.. the format is DV.

However, the container that will house the captured DV is another story.
Because, each "container type" will have slighte differences. An example
would be, how one container handles the cross-hatch (or RED bleed) while
another one doesn't, and leaves them in, making the source suffer in those
areas (ie, RED) of the DV .AVI files.

My biggist issue is this ...

If I open my DV avi file inside vdub, the Panasonic DV codec will be used
(because that is what I setup my system for, and how vdub calls each CODEC
to "decode" the given avi file) The only time I open in vdub is for the
purpose of post-processing it through the IVTC method I use. I will re-save
the source file to another (at 23.976) and I will choose the Panasonic DV
codec as my "compressor" (under compressor, inside vdub) But my beaf is,
or question..

* Is it re-compressing again ??

I strongly believe that it is re-compressing the source. But that remains
to be researched for trueth and

-vhelp

[guns1inger]

If you use full processing mode and have applied filters than it will reencode as the source has changed. One of the pros to DV is that a good DV codec will allow multiple reenocdes with minimal degredation. I have read comprisons that suggest the Sony DV codec (used in Vegas) is one of the best, and go up to 10 generations without serious damage being done.

[mikesbytes]

If you are not enhancing the picture, ie just cliping out the bit you want, then use the direct stream option. Virtual dub will save the video without decompressing and recompressing.

As per guns1inger, the degrade by processing in DV isn't that significant. There is a small difference between the DV codecs, they produce slightly different types of results. Read the reviews to determine which one you want. I use the Panasonic DV codec but thats personal choice.

[guns1inger]

If you are using virtualdub then I believe the Panasonic DV codec is the only choice as it is the only one that virtualdub can see. I have a number of different DV codecs on my machine (Sony from Vegas, Mainconcept, Panasonic, Canopus) and Panasonic is the only one that virtualdub recognises for writing to.

[qlizard]

read this

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240038&highlight=

Thank you! This works and has pretty much solved my situation. I can now frameserve to procoder and save a bunch of time and HD space. My only complication is that using a temporal smoother is more difficult. I guess I'll live with that. I still wonder about switching codecs though.

[BJ_M]

If you are using virtualdub then I believe the Panasonic DV codec is the only choice as it is the only one that virtualdub can see. I have a number of different DV codecs on my machine (Sony from Vegas, Mainconcept, Panasonic, Canopus) and Panasonic is the only one that virtualdub recognises for writing to.

the main concept codec also works perfectly well in vdub

[BJ_M]

read this

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240038&highlight=

Thank you! This works and has pretty much solved my situation. I can now frameserve to procoder and save a bunch of time and HD space. My only complication is that using a temporal smoother is more difficult. I guess I'll live with that. I still wonder about switching codecs though.

the temporal cleaner in PC2 works well - though really difficult to judge settings

[qlizard]

the main concept codec also works perfectly well in vdub

BJ_M, I know you are a vegas user, and this has probably been asked a million times, but do you know if the premiere DV codec is the mainconcept one?

[BJ_M]

the main concept codec i was talking about for vdub is the stand alone one you have to buy ...

the DV codec in vegas is by sonic foundry and not by main concept ..

I understand (but no personal knowledge) that premiere pro uses the mainconcept dv codec ...

[qlizard]

the main concept codec i was talking about for vdub is the stand alone one you have to buy ...

My point was, if premiere uses the MC, and I decide to output DV from premiere, would I be better off using the MC in virtualdub than the panasonic since it may "match" better.

[BJ_M]

i doubt it makes much diff......

[vhelp]

The reason why vdub uses the "Panasonic DV" codec by default is because:

a) - Your source DV avi file has a *common* fourCC string written to it.
...... .
...... Its the standard "dvsd". There is another one, that is also in
...... use, though seldom. That one is the "cdvc". This is the one that
...... Canopus uses.

b) - By coinsidence, you may have already had the PAN codec on your system
..... and vdub defaults to this codec, even if you have others that use this
..... *same* fourCC string of "dvsd" in the avi file structure.
..... .
..... If you want to use another DV codec (w/ this "dvsd" string) you have
..... to desable the PAN codec first, (make use you have another DV codec
..... installed) and then vdub will use *that* codec for decompressing.
..... .
..... You can also *change* the fourCC string using an avi util that only
..... changes the fourCC inside the avi file. Because DV is a standard,
..... there shouldn't be any issues with altering that aspect of the avi file.
..... The name slips my mind, as to what the app is called. Its a very tiny
..... tiny, tiny app that just changes the fourCC - nothing else. That's all
..... you need to do if you want to use the Canapus DV codec. vdub *will not*
..... use it, even if you remove the PAN codec or any other codec because the
..... fourCC is "dvsd". So, using an avi util to change this fourCC will or
..... should work then.

If anyone knows the name of this util ... ?? if not, it's probably not important
to this user anyway

Thanks,
-vhelp

[gastorgrab]

The application called AVI FourCC is located at;
http://www.inmatrix.com/files/avic_download.shtml

I've been using it with a combination of the Canopus and Panasonic DV codecs to frameserve with AviSynth. (Convolution3D uses YUY2)

Is this what your referring to?

[vhelp]

@ gastorgrab

Thanks for such a quick resonse Really appreciated.
Yes, this is the util.

Some notes with my quick test ...

This trick does not seem to work (as I though it would) vbudMOD (shows the
fourCC and Codec name) shows the new fourCC name writen successfully, but
the codec name is still the same. In my example test run, I changed the
"dvsd" to "CDVC" but its not working as I thought it would, and in fact,
wont play the reviesed source file, though it will show the specs at least.

Hmm.. interesting.

-vhelp

[gastorgrab]

I always change the FourCC in both;



The first one seems to be just a label, and has no impact on file decoding.

(i eventually got tired of the hassle and bought the MainConcept DV Codec)