ADS DVD Xpress - My experience so far.

[vhelp]

*** ** ADS DVD Xpress (USBAV701) ** ***



This is just a brief review of my experience with this unit.
I felt my experience was a positive one (though I'm experiencing a set
back, due to my OS limitation or bug in my system drivers conflicting
with other drivers and directX 's I just installed, throwing this out
of wack now - I'm working on it) But I'm including my first-time successful
test runs I had, before the nonsense started w/ my system bug.

Although the DVD Xpress was given a minimum system requirement of 98SE,
I took the plunge and gambled that it would work under Win 98 Gold, and
to my surprise, it did (until I blundered w/ my bad move) Anyways.

Basically, I'll let the sample speak for itself. I'm not saying that
this is the GOLD of GOLD, but its definately an additionl alternative
(that you can add to those Hardware MPEG-2 capture cards/devices)
to Analog Capture cards, and Software encodings, or when you are just to
lazy to deal with the long haul and feel that this unit's MPEG output
is acceptable quality to Author and Burn to DVD media. All those full
screen tv shows would be perfect for this unit.

Also, I want you to know that the MPEG-2 streams that this unit puts out
seems to respect DVD compliancy. I was able to take small sample clip MPEG-2
capture (see below) and using TMPG's MPEG Tools "De-Multiplex" (aka, demux)
and separate the audio/video and using ifoEdit to Author it to VOB successfully
and w/out any hint of issues, and finally play it in PowerDVD 3.0 w/ flying
colors.
.
The software (CapWiz v3.1 (beta v3.5 is avail for D/L) ) offers you the
option to capture to .MPA / .MPV files during capturing (to be used in your
Authoring app (ie, ifoEdit used these perfectly))

Regarding my experience with USB-2 ...

As far as I know, I'm running full throudle at USB-2 under Windows 98 Gold,
(but only w/ a dedicated USB-2 pci card, though I'm using 98SE drivers)
When I used it w/ my onboard USB (mobo supports 1.1 / 2) Capwiz 3.1 would
report a warning message at every capture, to inform me that USB limit is
4mb due to 1.1 speed or something. I guess I needed a dicated card for
this, and now I can capture w/ out this warning message, at 2.0 speeds.
But, I'd just like to say, that even at 1.1 speed, I was capturing at
720 x 480 and with no problems that I could make out.., though they were
not 1/hr long captures.., rather, short burts instead.. FWIW.

I think that this unit could serve really well in those quicky gotta-have-it
right away TV Shows and things.., when quality or IVTC is not necessary or
critical, or for when you have a source that is Film but badly Telecined,
and you don't want to deal with it, and feel that this unit will do a fair
to better (or great) job of that given project. Even if you *know* you
can do better via Software, you may at times just want to forgo it, and
turn on this unit. (oh, there's NO on/off button)

Very briefly, I did a quicky test run on a commercial VHS tape. And I was
pretty amazed at how it came out. I was pretty satisfied with the results
and quality (though mainly for others out there who are looking for an
alternative w/ good quality - by word of mouth/experience)


* Note, this is a snap-shot from inside vdubMOD and saved as
* lossless .PNG file. This is what the untouched MPEG-2 looks like from
* this unit.
.
* Sorry for the size of the pic D/L. I wanted to give you as acurate and
* untouched experience.

In the sample clip I posted ...

Below, for your curiostiy, is a 4.6MB sample file that I made from this unit.
It's no prize winner, but I can U/L more small samples like this one if you
like. Just ask. Even w/ noisy signal, it did pretty well. It did even
better w/ VHS source

You are all welcomed to D/L it and taste the sample for yourself, to see what
it has to offer, and if it will sufice in your every-day projects and things.
It's a tv commercial that was Telecined (3:2 pattern) but is a tipicle messed
up pattern - not consistant. These as well as pure Interlaced are perfect
candidates for excuses to using this unit to capture with.., when you don't
want to bother with complex algorithems to eleminate IVTC from a badly done
Telecined source. There are lots of tv shows that are like this, and using
this unit is a good alternative.., specially when the source is clean..,
unlike my Antenna signal.
(This was captured from my antenna, though its pretty noisy.., I would never
apply any filtering to it ( and ruin it ? ) no way)

DOWNLOAD using winRAR v2.90 to extract.
--> vts_01_1.rar

* I used the Custom Settings, and set a bitrate of 8000 and CBR
* I set a resolution of 704 x 480 (I thought I had set it to 720 size)
* No audio is present.., though needed to create this VOB.
* The source was pretty noisy - Antenna, but for my use, and since I'm
.. strapped w/ this source type, ..is a comprimise, and I put up with it.
.. Based on the sample clip U/L 'ed, you can see, it's not *that* bad in
.. quality.., considering the noise. I think its as noisy as VHS (if you
.. consider VHS on the noisy side)

Edited: 11.02.04
** Apparently, DVD Xpress is not totally MV disabled.
**
** Some tapes may exhibit color-flashing (normal to pink, though very faint) colors.
** My applogies, for missleading everyone that the unit is totally MV - free.

Cheers,
-vhelp

[Saltydog]

vhelp,
forgive me if I missed it in my quick read, but when you say you sent VHS to this unit are you talking 'home' or TV capture? I have a bunch of VHS-C tapes of my kids growing up and want to convert them to DVD. After buying an Avermedia card I became convinced that a standalone was the way to go (GShelley had some good words on this topic, esp with regard to quality vs effort!). However, what seems to put out the best results is a $300 JVC, which is a bit pricey for me. So, that is what is driving my question regarding this machine. I was on the verge of one of the LiteOn clones, but your post caught my eye. Thanks,
SD

[snafu099]

The ADS DvdExpress, ADS InstantDvd2 and ADS InstantDvd +DV all bypass macro vision, accept any analog input (s-vidio or rca) with the +Dv also accepting DV input.

Excellent qualtiy output IMHO
On occassion, the Express unt has been sold for $49 after rebate
All lack tv-turner, pvr capability

AVOID the InstantDvd ver 1 device, it did not hardware encode the audio with the video and thus suffered from sync problems, like all other devices that do not somehow "lock" the two together

The latest capwiz version 3.5 has an option for DTD, direct to disc, that is true DTD and does not use any hdd space, burns authored capture direct to media in real time + 2-5 min for initilizeing and finalizing disc. You can set auto chapter points, very handy for projects that do not need any editing.

[BJ_M]

why does it look as it is encoding VHS as progressive in the pic above ?

[Capmaster]

If my Snazzi started turning out captures like this, I would send it in for servicing Horrible :P

But that's no surprise to me. I have long considered everything ADS sells as cheap junk ...suitable only for the Fisher Price crowd, but that's just me Your results may vary ....but I doubt it :P

And ...this isn't news so I'm moving it to the Capturing forum. I'll try to do that without glancing at that awful cap grab again ...... oops ..too late

[BJ_M]

ADS firewire cases and cards are very good -- i have no idea on anything else they make ..

[Capmaster]

ADS firewire cases and cards are very good -- i have no idea on anything else they make ..

That's true. I meant their video hardware.

The original USB Instant DVD was a huge POS. Based on the Cirrus CS92210 reference design, it utilized the PC sound card for audio capture And ...to save a few bucks in parts, they left out a chip that would have dramatically improved lip sync ...an analog multiplexer. The Cirrus reference design has the mux, but ADS chose to leave it out.

Instead both audio and video free-run. I'd love to have a discussion with the moron that made that decision.

Instead they chose to put a settable delay in the Capwiz application so you could dial in the offset between video and audio. The problem is since there are two different timebases used for video and audio, the delay is never uniform, and good lip-sync is only a wet dream ...or an incredible accident. What a POS that was.

I've heard reports from buddies from the old forum that the newer, supposedly improved Instant DVD models are even crappier inside ...marginal fab techniques, poor quality solder, flux smears all over the board (wasn't cleaned or otherwise degreased ...board mold is then an issue). SMDs that look like surplus, the cheapest, thinnest insulators ...etc. Garbage products. :P

I hate to think how quickly the electrolytics dry up in those things

[vhelp]

@ BJ_M; Capmaster; Saltydog

The capture (pic and samplel clip) I made was from a noisy antenna source.


@ snafu099

I agree with you too. Qualtiy is Excellent. Specially with clean sources.
Even VHS
Whatever changes/revisions they made, the past in history when it comes to
the DVD Xpress unit. I'm *very* impressed with its quality. Very.

My thoughts and experiences with VHS tapes ...

The statement I made about VHS is true.. that it does a fantastic job on it.
These are the commericla VHS tapes I have. I haven't done any of my other tapes
that were pre-recorded from my previous VCRs just yet. But, I'm sure they will
come out just as good too.

As far as macrovision goes, I throw in as many tapes that I knew of that had MV in
it, and all worked without any hint..., just crystle clean through out.

Fullscreen Commerical VHS Movies are a treat for this device. You won't be
disapointed. If you have lots of those (as I do) you'll love doing them with
DVD Xpress. All the hard part is taken out. The encoding that is.
There is no IVTC steps here, because it captures streight 29.970 fps. Too bad
they didn't incorporate a feature like Inverse Telecine / IVTC in this device.
It would have ben the bomb.. IMO.

But, I can't say for sure how it will handle VHS-C tapes, because I never came across
any in my video endeavors so far. But, from my understanding/knowledge of CAM's
and things, they are Interlaced, and as such, your mileage will vary when using
DVD Xpress with them.
.
Because your those sources are home-made and so not Cinema equipment and handled by
the pros, don't expect Gold results. All I can say or recommend, is to try it out
for yourself, and see what you can get out of it all when using DVD Xpress.

(GShelley had some good words on this topic, esp with regard to quality vs effort! ).

Definately true words - or comprimise. The better the source (lesser noise) the better the
results. Just so true words. I'm still stunned by those VHS captures I made in my first
of many tests. If you like, I can post another sample clip of a scene, but from one of
my VHS movies in my library...

* bugs life; mosters inc; blade runner; contact; blue streak; jeepers creepers; and the
list goes on..

The DVD Xpress is a great alternative for when you don't want to spend the
time w/ IVTC methods/processes, or you just don't want to bother. Whatever the reason,
you wont be disapointed. Well, at least I'm not. It is a good alternative to my
usual other processes (analog captures to avi file) ..the long way, though it will always
be the better way

One day, I'm going to set this up w/ my other pc and let it hardware mpeg capture in
that pc, while I DV avi capture through firewire in another at the same time. Be a
little interesting to see the results eather way.

I'm still amazed at how well it does in noisy sources like my antenna reception.
I just captured "Smallville" and a brief bit of "Jack and Bobby" and the quality
IMO is very good (or great)
.
I'm curious to see how "Smallville" came out. I want to burn it on DVD, but I have
to cut the commericals out Just thinking about it makes me and lazy.
But, I would like to share my experience with a one our capture. No lip sync issues
either. I'm glad

-vhelp

[snafu099]

ADS firewire cases and cards are very good -- i have no idea on anything else they make ..

That's true. I meant their video hardware.

The original USB Instant DVD was a huge POS. Based on the Cirrus CS92210 reference design, it utilized the PC sound card for audio capture And ...to save a few bucks in parts, they left out a chip that would have dramatically improved lip sync ...an analog multiplexer. The Cirrus reference design has the mux, but ADS chose to leave it out.

Instead both audio and video free-run. I'd love to have a discussion with the moron that made that decision.

Instead they chose to put a settable delay in the Capwiz application so you could dial in the offset between video and audio. The problem is since there are two different timebases used for video and audio, the delay is never uniform, and good lip-sync is only a wet dream ...or an incredible accident. What a POS that was.

I've heard reports from buddies from the old forum that the newer, supposedly improved Instant DVD models are even crappier inside ...marginal fab techniques, poor quality solder, flux smears all over the board (wasn't cleaned or otherwise degreased ...board mold is then an issue). SMDs that look like surplus, the cheapest, thinnest insulators ...etc. Garbage products. :P

I hate to think how quickly the electrolytics dry up in those things

I agree that the original ADS InstantDvd (ver 1) was NOI a good value for the price it sold at, suffered the same audio sync issues that other cheaper capture devices had, however, the picture quality was excellent.

The current ADS hardware encoder line of products encode both audio and video with a "locking" method for sync.

Since myself and vhelp are reporting first hand use, not bashing a product supposedly based on someone elses experience, I think our posts are more revelant to the issue of quality.

I am NOT saying that these are the best choice for the $, (except maybe the DvdExpress for $49 on sale) but that the QUALITY of captue is EXCELLENT and yes I have other capture devices to compare to.

Note also, my IDVD-2 has been installed and powerd on since they came on the market, I did a direct upgrade purchase from ADS, with no hardware failure or issues.

Nothing is life is perfect, but I think the forum would be better served if bashing of a product were limited to first hand experience and that modified by corrective steps by vendor to address the issues. In this instance, ADS has updated the capwiz software, which in effect updates the firmware when it it run, to address issues as they are reported

Bottom line is the the current ADS product line of hardware encoders do what they claim to do and do it very well, thank you.

Features, versitility and price/value depend on what you need/want along with what you have to pay for it.

If you want to bash ADS fine, but exclude quality of capture, because IMO you do not know.

[vhelp]

Hi guys :P

ADS firewire cases and cards are very good -- i have no idea on anything else they make ..

..
..

Capmaster wrote:

That's true. I meant their video hardware.

I have their USB 2 drive kit (where you put your existing or replacement hd
or cd/dvd drive inside) and as BJ_M said, it very good at what it does.
The only thing I don't like about this drive, is that the syncrinazation of the
data flow during an uncompressed or huffy capture made by an analog capture
device causes the capture app to drops zillions of frames or stop all to gether.
.
However, doing firewire capturing is another story, when using this drive kit
as the place to capture to. I have a 40 gig hard drive that I firewire to.
And, because I can now use avi_io and fireiwre, I have the ability to send my
segmented captures to this drive. Firewire's through-put might be at
400 mbits/sec, (or 40mb/sec) but for DV, all it needs of ~3.6mb/sec to
transfer. More than enough for this USB 2 drive kit. Anyways. Just adding
to the comments

I'm not affended by the comments made from others here Really
I respect them all. But, the above experiences may be abolutely true.
However, I was just saying and sharing my experience w/ *this* new unit I
bought. Anyways.

I just wish I had Cable, so I could capture a little bit more cleaner source
I remember seeing another post somewhere's here, where a user had posted
some pics of his/her "digital cable" source. They were nice and clean, and
were made by the Hauppauge 250 (based on my memory) However, that
model is a PCI based card, and not external. I think that lots have changed
since my last Hardware MPEG-2 capture card. That was the first and
original PVR-USB model of its time:

** Model: 43201 REV D323 Lot #0116 **
** With: iTVC12-A2-A chipset **

and it only offered 352 x 480 captures and 3 bitrate settings. Also, it
blured interlaced captured (if memory serves me) ..But I do still have it
laying around somewheres.

All comments are welcomed. Good or bad. Its ok. Just remember though,
that my source is pretty noisy, when you are commenting on my pic and
sample clip

Thanks for reading,
-vhelp

[Capmaster]

I have to apologize for a bit of bashing. My experience with ADS and its products, and it's "User Forum" was such a bad experience for me I had to comment. It was a bad capture grab though in the first post

I have first-hand experience with the Instant DVD, and second-hand experience with more recent products. I'll reserve judgment on those since I haven't owned those particular models.

[lordsmurf]

I've been hearing good things about these units for a while now. Good to see a trend is steadily growing. I need to try one sometime.

[Capmaster]

I've been hearing good things about these units for a while now. Good to see a trend is steadily growing. I need to try one sometime.

That's a good thing. Maybe they got negative feedback from their first-gen USB capture devices 8)

[vhelp]

@ capmaster

Not to sound similar, but I felt the same way w/ my first pvr-usb experience.
I based my jugment on my past experience, and not on the current of today.
This is with respect to the pvr-250 card. But after seeing the pic in that other
thread (can't remember it) I felt shameful.

But, what really taints these cards, is the source that we use, when we
demonstrate them. Anything "digital" is *always* gonna have MPEG-2
artifacts (blocks / pixelation) in them. That's why I went back to analog sources.
.
My antenna signal is not the best, and I have few channels, but they are
horendous at quality - oh.. the areal noise you would see. But at least one
channel comes in pretty clear, *when you watch it on the tele*
That sample clip I posted earlier in my first thead was a good
example of what I am watching. But, it does not do it justice when you
watch that clip on your pc. When you watch it on your TV set, it's much
better.., probably because of the way TV sort of "hides" most of the noise
during it's resizing or whatever it does inside the mysterious circuitry.
It looks pretty darn close to what I am watching when I watch the areal..,
just a little pixelated in some areas after DVD Xpress gets done with
it. But I'm surprised at how much better it did against my much older pvr-usb
device.

I'll try and post a sample clip from a commercial VHS source later. I'm
sure others would like to see how it fairs. Then, you all could compare it
and test it up aginst your own devices (or toys) to your hearts content.
.
Course, nothing will ever beat the gold old slower way of capping to avi
and editing and encoding. But this device offers a vacation away from
those methods.

Cheers to all,
-vhelp

[freebird1963]

i tried d/l the file and get error about not having permsisions and the image does not load.
are they gone ?

[vhelp]

i tried d/l the file and get error about not having permsisions and the image does not load.
are they gone ?

First, sorry about that. And, no.., they are not gone. My provider sometimes
forget to send me an e-mail to renew my account before the website becomes
locked. Unfortunately, they are closed on the weekends. I found myself just
yesterday morning, when I was planning on uploading a new sample clip on
a VHS tape. But all should be back up on Monday

Thanks for holding on,
-vhelp

[trock]

I had an ADS Pyro A/V Link Rev C Firmware 3 that gave poor capture quality and I sent it back to ADS because it suddenly was not being recognized by my system. They sent me a replacement and to my surprise the capture quality of the new one was much better so it seems that they do indeed vary.

I have been doing a series of capture tests for my own education and on my system the ADS Pyro captures come out very similar to the ones done via DV passthrough through the JVC BR-DV3000 miniDV recorder.

You can see my tests at:

http://www.cybertown.com/codecs/codecs.html

trock

[vhelp]

@ Trock,

Great test page. I like it. I'm on dial-up and still waiting for the
pics and things to download, but that's ok.
Speed should never get in the way of research or progress

But, I only have one thing that keeps me from a perfect test scenario
when it comes to VHS. That's the noise in-between. Plus the noise
that the VCR might give.

*On mine* it gives very un-noticable noise, but I can still see them
(if I look for them real hard)
.
I think a more stable test (from VHS) would be if we had burned at highest
bitrate, say 15k and authord it to DVD. Won't be perfect, but the noise
will not be a factor anymore. Still "VHS source content" though.
.
I'm still rolling that inside my head, and I might give that a test run
(you all can do the same) with my AD-1500 since that (non-standard) unit
does pretty good at various bitrates.

Question..

Did you record "The Fifth Element" (my favoriate move, BTW) to VHS, or is
that the VHS tape ??

-vhelp

[vhelp]

.
Oh, and one more thing. About DV ...

Its my OP, that not all DV devices (cams and advc-100 and
dac-100 and others) are alike. Each brand has a varied
degree of "final" quality in a produced DV segment.
.
As an example, on my TRV22 vs. ADVC-100 tests, the trv22 puts
out better quality (IMO) then my ADVC-100 does in VHS captures.
I'm still researching this out, but so far, that's what I've
come up with.
.
So, I think that the DV chip inside these units varie to a
degree in quality. That means, that other cams (and devices)
will come to the same conclusion here. I've ben feeling this
way for some time now, maybe since January 2004 (cause I remember
doing something, and it caught my eye, but I was too busy in
other things to research this at the time) Anyways.

I just thought that was important to mention.
-vhelp

[trock]

Thanks vhelp, interesting about what you observed with the TRV22. I'm looking for a good analog to DV capture system.

Did you record "The Fifth Element" (my favoriate move, BTW)
to VHS, or is that the VHS tape ??

It's the VHS tape - my favorite movie too

trock

[vhelp]

Hay, I do have the VHS (fullscreen) of this movie too.
I'll do a couple of test runs on the same scenes you did
w/ my ADVC-100 and TRV22. I don't recall my DV units
ever giving me problems with text. Most be something to
do w/ your setup. I do know that DVD Xpress does a good
job of it. I'll post a sample with it too, when I get the
chance.

I really like the DVD Xpress for quicky stuff though. Yesterday,
there was a Quilt program on tv. Don't need the quality or
anything, so it was a perfect candidate for the Xpress.
Only problem was, I deleted the captured files by mistake

-vhelp

[trock]

Hay, I do have the VHS (fullscreen) of this movie too.
I'll do a couple of test runs on the same scenes you did
w/ my ADVC-100 and TRV22. I don't recall my DV units
ever giving me problems with text. Most be something to
do w/ your setup.

I'll be very interested to see your caps on the ADVC-100 and TRV22. There's quite a bit of info in these forums about DV not being good for text. Seeing all the raves about the ADV-100 I've been wondering if I got a faulty unit.

Since DV to PC is just a file transer, the other thing I've been wondering about is which of my various DV codecs is being used to play back the file and whether that is what is causing the degradation.

trock

[vhelp]

ok. I understand.

Hay, maybe if you start another post w/ your pics, (so that others here
don't get confused with this thread

I'll post back my results of my DV devices.. if you're still curious,
that is.. Only because this thread is about the DVD Xpress
(I'll see it in my "refresh" of the main page)

-vhelp

[trock]

Thanks vhelp. I'll do that (start another thread) but not yet as my webpage is a work in progress. Just today I tried the DV caps on an AMD machine that only has one DV codec and got much better quality (sharper) than the previous ones done on the P4. So I'm still researching.

trock

[Capmaster]

@ capmaster

Not to sound similar, but I felt the same way w/ my first pvr-usb experience.
I based my jugment on my past experience, and not on the current of today.
This is with respect to the pvr-250 card. But after seeing the pic in that other
thread (can't remember it) I felt shameful.

But, what really taints these cards, is the source that we use, when we
demonstrate them. Anything "digital" is *always* gonna have MPEG-2
artifacts (blocks / pixelation) in them. That's why I went back to analog sources.
.
My antenna signal is not the best, and I have few channels, but they are
horendous at quality - oh.. the areal noise you would see. But at least one
channel comes in pretty clear, *when you watch it on the tele*
That sample clip I posted earlier in my first thead was a good
example of what I am watching. But, it does not do it justice when you
watch that clip on your pc. When you watch it on your TV set, it's much
better.., probably because of the way TV sort of "hides" most of the noise
during it's resizing or whatever it does inside the mysterious circuitry.
It looks pretty darn close to what I am watching when I watch the areal..,
just a little pixelated in some areas after DVD Xpress gets done with
it. But I'm surprised at how much better it did against my much older pvr-usb
device.

I'll try and post a sample clip from a commercial VHS source later. I'm
sure others would like to see how it fairs. Then, you all could compare it
and test it up aginst your own devices (or toys) to your hearts content.
.
Course, nothing will ever beat the gold old slower way of capping to avi
and editing and encoding. But this device offers a vacation away from
those methods.

Cheers to all,
-vhelp

In all fairness, yes, you're right vhelp. The PC screen is an unforgiving judge Things always seem to look better on an interlaced TV, so I was a bit harsh judging the grab you posted.

What really counts is what you're happy with. If it does the job for you and you like the results, then hey, hard to argue with that, regardless of how us "armchair quarterbacks" judge the effort.

[vhelp]

@ Capmaster

That's the thing.., with these videos, when it comes to noise in
them and all. You never know for sure how things will turn out
till you try them. When I first saw how noisy the encoded video
looked (after DVD Xpress) I thought how awful it looked on my pc
monitor (for a moment) ..until I played it on my TV. Boy, was I
surprised at my *own* judgement (using longer sample clips)

Anyways, don't sweat it. The DVD Xpress is a good piece of hardware.
I'd go as far as to say that its a great hardware. But, what impressed
me the most, was the VHS quality. It's almost virtually indisting-uishable
at 8000 bitrate CBR mode. I was mainly showing how well it did with the
noisy antenna I have. Sometime, its a little better.

The two major things this hardware is missing are:
* IVTC
* Cropping and Masking

-vhelp

[vhelp]

@ freebird1963

My webspace is back up.
-vhelp

[vhelp]

EDITED: by vhelp
Cheers,
-vhelp

[trock]

Thanks, it looks similar to what I got today with the ADS Pyro.

trock

[vhelp]

EDITED: by vhelp
Cheers,
-vhelp