USB Instant DVD Clip vs. Tmpgenc Encode Clip

[strep]

I just got the ADS USB Instant DVD device and ran a quick comparison with some of the other devices I have. I have wanted to encode at DVD resolution, so the comparison here is at 5000bps, Mpeg2, 720x480:

1. ATI AIW Radeon 32 capture with Avi_IO and Soft Encode with Tmpgenc
RESULT: Not worth mentioning

2. Sony DVMC-DA1 capture with Avi_IO and Soft Encode with Tmpgenc
RESULT: Best capture and encode method I've dealt with yet. The quality of the mpg is very very good (although I usually like to encode at 6k, I did it at 5k for the equal comparison with the ADS USB Instant DVD).

3. ADS USB Instant DVD capture directly to mpg2 (Best qualiyt=5000bps)
RESULT: I think it's just about as good as option #2 in my list. But of course, it has the major added advantage of not requiring a separate software encoding step. I really did not expect the mpg to be that great due to a variety of reasons inlcuding the ligos encoder and limited USB speed, but this device managed to impress me.

I'm about to start a big capture/encode project so, I'm not sure whether to use the USB Instant DVD or my DV capture/Tmpgenc encode (6K, mpg2, 720x480) method.

I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about, when I say that my eyes are getting blurred after watching so many encoded clips on my TV (to test quality differences). So, if anyone wants to check out these encodes, I'd really appreciate it and would love to hear your input. Since I'm not sure of a place to put my clips up on, you can e-mail me or IM me (look in my user info) and I can send you the files.

Thanks,
Strep

[vhelp]

strep,

I don't recall reading "what" you encoded from, ie, DVD player, or
satalete for instance.

Also, 5000 mbits is obviously gonna get you good or great quality.
Heck, my PVR usb, at 4000 gives me greate quality, if not excellent
quality captures of my DVD(1) movies, in comparison to my
tmpgenc(2) encodes via DVD2AVI. DVD2AVI is a pain in the butt
sometimes, like with the Audio, pull downs, IVTC, Film stuff,
etc., etc. But, I'm after something a little more SVD'ish. No what
I mean?

I think we want to see something more in between/middle, ie,
as close to SVD specs. . . So, if you could run a couple of your capture
test clips AT 2520 (which is what I use for MY dvd captures via my PVR
usb) that would be interesting. . . .unless you already have, he,he...
. . .and quality sucked bigtime? he, he... Serious though, . . .

I hope I'm speaking for most people on the above 2520 (SVCD Spec)
for running your "close to DVD quality" comparison test/review.

When we make our CDs for (I hope) viewing on our TV's, we are MOST
concerned with the size or number of CD's we have to use - the less,
the better. And, if we can burn an average of 2 CDs (3 tops) per movie, that
should be the target or guage to aim for. When you use 5000... Holy
smokes, "Faget-a-bout-it!" . . .now how many CDs are will we need?
But, baring in mind, that "quality" is our main concern! If it takes 3 CDs,
than it will be such, but, provided we do go too far outside the SVCD
spec (2520) as much.

So, in short, two thinkgs:
a - 5000mbits... Faget about it! Nah, just kidding, he, he...
B - do a 2520 capture (give or take a few bits)
---- and if you do this, do 2 test, 1 for DVD and 2 for other, ie, Satalete
C - Until DVD-R (machine and media) prices go down a lot, I'll stick
with 2520 (SVCD) - give or take a few bits if need be

Heck, I've already started this with my PVR. Did a capture via
satalete sample of Star Wars Phantom Menace the other
night - 30sec clip at 2520.
Why don't you D/L it and compare it with yours, K? If you can straighten
out your storage problem, post it and I'll have a look'c's - that's
all of us would like to!

Will see you later on.

(1) (not talking/including about satalete quality)
(2) give or take a little (both methods have different settings)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vhelp on 2001-12-10 22:24:13 ]</font>

[strep]

vhelp...thanx for the response

You're right...I forgot to mention what my source was. It is composite from a VHS tape of Top Gun.

Tomorrow, I'll go ahead and do the SVCD encodes to let you know what the ADS USB Instant DVD unit is like. I can appreciate that you want to encode at bitrates that afford the possibility of using 2 to 3 CDs, but so far, I have not found an encode method with a bit rate that low that really makes me happy. Granted, I am a perfectionist freak when it comes to this type of thing...LOL. I need the mpg to look just like the VHS tape or the TV broadcast. If it's anyhting lower, I'd rather just watch the VHS tape to start with. Many of my friends have told me that I'm ridiculously picky when it comes to these things, but I think the only treatment to treat this type of paranoia is psychiatric help, and I'm not willing to commit to that yet..LOL

Anyhow, I'll do the SVCD caps tomorrow and let you know how it goes. BTW...Do you know a site where I can store files?

I have to admit, that I am just now getting into digital video and I am really reluctant to sacrifice encode quality so it fits on 2 CDs, especially when DVD-Rs are ~5 bucks a piece (still too rich for my blood) and dropping fast. Many people have said this before with regards to VCD, but I think it's true..."The writing's on the wall". There's maybe a year left before they are displaced.

Take care,
Strep

[vhelp]

strep,

Just don't forget to check out my PVR sample.
Note, I made a mistake (bobo) on my Spec columen. said encoder was tmep.
I used womble to cut out that piece of clip you're about to D/L , he, he...

Ok, as for blocks (your pickey'ness), I'm the same way, but I've faithfully
decided that there's a limit!! Period!! So, I ALLOW, a certain amount of
blocks in my satalete captures, via my PVR. When I want the best, I'll
cap it via AVI and then encode to SVCD, but with same spec, 2520..., and
the quality of great!! See my sample (ATI-TV Wonder, ie)

I did a few test caps of VHS movies, one on Star Wars Phantom Menace.
Though it Looked pretty good, it was nothing like the satalete broadcase
the other night! Again, that was with my PVR. I haven't nailed it yet, as
to why some TV Shows or Movies come out looking soo good, while others
come out fairly well. ...could be a "soft" filter they are using on the source.

If your unit (that you are testing) a PCI or USB or Other?

By the way, I try and keep my clips to short 30sec or less. aprox 10mb in
total size, then I use WinRAR to compress to multiple file, ie, rar/r00/r01
so you D/L a single file at a time. ...case you have bandwith trouble or like
trouble, you wont have to re-D/L the whole clip again.

Well, I'm going to bed. So D/L my PVR clip tonight while you sleep, and
let me know what you think of its quality. But, burn to CD (SVCD) cause
at 352x480, stretched to your monitor (1024x76 is not gonna look so
good, and color is off, but correct on TV. Must see for yourself.

Later.

[matt-o]

I just found out about this product and am very eager to hear more feedback on lower bit rate captures, svcd, vcd etc...
what is the software bundled?
what is the software used to capture?
can it capture with other apps?

[strep]

OK...I'm sorry for the long delay in getting these clips posted, but I came down with a bug the last few days. Anyhow, I set up a Yahoo Briefcase account with samples of a ~20sec clip from Top Gun (VHS Tap, Composite output). I created the mpeg at standard SVCD specs, in one of two ways:

1. Virtualdub DV avi capture with a Sony DVMC-DA1 box. I then encoded to Mpeg2 SVCD with Tmpgenc.

2. Direct Mpeg2 SVCD capture with the ADS USB Instant DVD unit.

I used Tmpgenc on both clips to cut out some of the video in order to make both mpegs the same video sequence.

Here's the link to my Yahoo Briefcase. You can download the clips there. Each clip is compressed in a 2 volume RAR format.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/strepstrep/lst?.dir=/Mpeg+Clips&.order=&.view=l&.src=bc&...c=bc%26.view=l

Anyhow...I hope this helps a little. If you want to see anything else, let me know. Maybe I can help

-Strep

[vhelp]

strep,

Now, here's a more interesting threa to read. I've ben waiting for
it. So, I'll be downloading it now.

Will let you know my honest opinion

PS: i've revised my website.

[vhelp]

strep,

It looks like it's gonna be a LONG while before I (and other) can get back to
to ya on your clip. Seems to be a problem with D/L'ing them.
Sometimes it craps out after 31k or less, or is just D/L'ing sooo slooowww!

But, I've also tried on my clips as well, being that they too, are on the
Yahoo Briefcase web site. I'm getting the same thing, and now I know
that people ARE NOT D/L'ing my clips - boo hoo! I wouln't want to
either. Seems, I'll have to continue looking for a storage site.

I think that, in the end, the only way to find a storage site is not to
look for FREE ones out there, because THERE AREN'T ANY!!
despite what people will (have) said here, you really can't find any
around that are for FREE. You have to pay for it. So, I think I'm going
to have to look into it.
I'd much rather go the Cable or DSL route and have my own server on
this PC, but I was informed that my area will NOT be having ANY such
Cable or DSL services in my area! Sucks the BIGist!!
I NOW realize that Yahoo briefcase is NOT efficiant for storage, being that
their throughput is so badly low. I have found two storage site, but my
only problem is that in order to get their service, I have to put out my
credit card info ONLINE - NOT gonna happen!
I'll find another means.
I did find another website for storage (100mb) BUT, their max file size
to UPload files to them are 1MB only.

What I need is a website that will offer, say, 100mb for storage and have
NO filesize limitation for UPloading.

If I find anything like that, I'll post here for you and others to see check
out.

Well, FYI, I'm given your clip (.r00) a once more try, it's at 420k so far.

[vhelp]

strep,

Just so you know, but sorry, didn't work!
downloaded the two files, but in WinRAR, I got an
"Unexpected end of archive" error message.
I don't know if this can be corrected, but since I'm
no expert on WinRAR, I'll stay away from that area.
I'll keep the two files I already D/L'ed, in hopes that
maybe someone else will read this and make a suggestion
on correcting it, unless these two files have to be scrapped
and I have to re-D/L your two files.

Note, I did try several times to D/L your files, but they are
just not working - sorry!
My guess, is that you had a few "bad" UPloads.

Later, for now.

[ejai]

I own the USB instant dvd and feel it's the best capture device I have used yet. The quality is sharp especially when it comes to SVCD. The VCD quality is very sharp as well but has a little too much artifacting around sharp edges. I've used the Terapin and even Broadway card. Both of these devices have their own set of problems. Also technical support for Broadway is terrible, they never like to respond.

I am very happy with The USB instant DVD, but I wish they had used another software package besides Ulead's VideoStudio. VideoStudio crashes alot even using XP and it has very bad audio/video sync issues.

Remember this is only my opinion. I must say one last thing I love the Uleads DVD Media Factory for making SVCDs and VCDs, I make perfect Discs with menus and no major problems.

[TomR]

I just took the plunge and ordered the unit a few
days ago (buy.com-$175 w/free shipping). Note I was
able to download your briefcase stuff at about 5k/sec
over my cable modem. I used extract now to decode the rar.
It did have an error, but I was still left with a 7.3
mg mpeg file. I was impressed with the quality. I will be
using the unit to covert 40+ hours of VHS (and other
things). After seeing your clip I think I will be very satisfied.

TomR

[sush]

I downloaded your clips and burned it on the svcd and played it on my pioneer dv-333. Awesome! Did you have to touch the captured file in any way?

I have just bought a P4 1.7 GHz processor and was all set to build a new system just for encoding. Now I am now thinking of returning it and buying the ADS Instant DVD. Wonderful!

Thanks

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sush on 2001-12-10 21:49:22 ]</font>

[vhelp]

sush,

Don't!!

It'll take a while, but before you know it, you'll be glad you didn't return
your new system. I wish I could have a 1.7g cpu!

But, I'm stuck with my Athlon T-Brd 900mhz cpu, but does a pretty good
job of pretty much everything I do - encoding. Just wish it were faster
at it!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vhelp on 2001-12-16 13:02:33 ]</font>

[sush]

vhelp,

Why do you say that? Wouldn't it be faster to capture to mpeg2 directly without the encoding hassels? Your input is appreciated!

Thanks

[vhelp]

sush,

I'm quite tired. But, I'll answer this last post, b4 I head ta bed-de-by

In short, I have the PVR. At first, I tested it out on a friends (for a while)
Turned out, that the "while" wansn't long enough. Anyways, so I bought it
and liked it very much. Did many more tests since. Still like it. But, I've
come to realize that I can't live with a few gliches/quirks it has.
* being that it's a USB device, it too slow to initialize (aprox 20sec every
time you load up the TV app)
CONS:
-------
* when I press the record and/or play button, there's a 5+ sec delay again.
* not every tv show I record is going to be acceptable enough for me to
warrant a complete change in my SVCD creation process.
* there's still a few steps to do after capturing straight to mpeg2
* no SVCD template (USB version)
* only hack available is the one THAT I CREATED (and shared here an on
my website) for the Mbits settings.
* sound has slight buz sound, but not too bad - can live with it
* audio has to be MUXed with other apps before successful SVCD

PROS:
-------
* great quality when capturing from DVD - great quality!!!
* good quality when capturing from Satalette - good quality, but still
some blocks though not too bad.
* no need to MUX audio (when used with Womble's MPEG2VCR)

This is the best I can come up with on short notice, and tired eyes.

I said don't, because sooner or later, you'll start to feel that maybe
you were wrong, or not so right on some things (as I have found for
myself) and so you'll wish you hand't give up you fast system.

When you get a capture card, IMO, you really have therally test it out
on everything you can feed it. ...and then some. As for me, I thought
I did, he, he.... Apparently not!

But, I love my PVR. Does a great job on my DVDs @ 2520Mbits. No
need to go high, like 5000 for best quality. 2520 does quite pefect
for me.

Again, you have to have standards or consistancies that you can live
with for a while, and not change today, later on, tomorrow, always
changing. Find a good process that works, and stay with it, w/out
finding a need to change here or there a little at each project.

So, don't give up your new fast system, but do go out and give this
"USB Instant DVD thing a worl !!

The above is all based on my true experience! I'm sure I left out some
things here or there, but I'm tired, and I promised myself I'd start going
ta bed earlier, and it looks like I broke that one. Oh well. . .

Good night.

[sush]

Thanks a bunch vhelp! What you say makes sense. I have ADS Pyro IEEE 1394 card which I use to capture AVIs. But I thought if I could capture to the quality of MPEGs made by strep, then it would be wonderful! May be I will get the Instant DVD from a local store (with a good return policy) and check it out.

Good Night!

[Stelios]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-04 12:00:38, ejai wrote:
I own the USB instant dvd and feel it's the best capture device I have used yet. The quality is sharp especially when it comes to SVCD. The VCD quality is very sharp as well but has a little too much artifacting around sharp edges. I've used the Terapin and even Broadway card. Both of these devices have their own set of problems. Also technical support for Broadway is terrible, they never like to respond.

I am very happy with The USB instant DVD, but I wish they had used another software package besides Ulead's VideoStudio. VideoStudio crashes alot even using XP and it has very bad audio/video sync issues.

Remember this is only my opinion. I must say one last thing I love the Uleads DVD Media Factory for making SVCDs and VCDs, I make perfect Discs with menus and no major problems.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Hi
I just purchased the USB Instant DVD but when I capture from my VCR in the SVCD format, the picture is with stuttering. I use Ulead Video Studio 5. What must I check. What settings do you use? I used Ulead before to capture DV from my camera via firewire and the quality was very good.
Regards
Stelios

[Anonymous65]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but what chip is used for the hardware encoding in the ADS Instant DVD USB box? Also, I would like someone to clarify if the audio is captured by the USB unit, or the audio just goes through it and into the line input of the sound card, which is actually doing the audio capturing. I know the audio is software compressed by the CPU, but where is the A/D converter? And lastly, I would like see some VCD captures with this unit. I have seen SVCD and it looks fine, but the question is VCD. VCD captures seems to be the problem with all the hardware encoders that can do both mpeg-1 and 2. Mpeg-2 looks fine, but mpeg-1 VCD captures *sucks*! I have not seen ANYTHING that can come close to the PV23X card for VCD captures...

[Cootie]

It's a Stream Machine SM2210 chip.
http://www.streammachine.com/products/products.html

The audio is captured via your sound card.