can you get mpeg1 quality on a vcd?

[stephen@kanza.net]

I have burnt 2 vcds from a mpeg1 file both play in my standalone dvd player and both are less vhs quality.
I used nero and nti cd-maker 2000, there was no difference
in quality (low). The mpeg1 source quality is high.
Trying to eliminate the media (verbatim) and the cdr (sony)
I bunt the mpeg1 file to a data cd format and played it
back on a different cdr (tdk) and it played back beautiful.
The data cd with the mpeg1 file does not play in the standalone dvd (pioneer). Am I missing something?
I have read that vcd are vhs quality, is this wrong, or am I
doing something wrong?

_________________
crashnburn

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: stephen@kanza.net on 2001-11-26 13:39:09 ]</font>

[cruffino69]

Forgive me if this is the wrong assumption, but if you're comparing the quality of the VCD between playback on a computer monitor in a little window vs. playback on a large TV screen, then what you're experiencing is probably completely normal.

VCD isn't really VHS quality; they're two very different storage mediums. They're only roughly equivalent in resolution, but even that's a stretch. I think you'll find most people here would agree to some degree that VCD is less than VHS quality.

I'm guessing that you're seeing lots of blockiness on the standalone playback on your TV. It's incredibly distracting, but that's the price you pay with low bit-rate MPEG files (it's the compression kicking in). It may not be as evident on your computer monitor, and it may be exacerbated by the differences in contrast/brightness, etc..

[ktnwin]

Or you could try XVCD. In my case, I use MPEG-1 resolution (352x240) and variable bit rate (0 to 2500 max), constant quality of about 80.

The resulting XVCD look great even on 50" big screen TV.
Of course, it does not match with the quality of my original VHS tape but it's much much better than VCD.
I never get VHS quality from a VHS source.

For source such as digital tape or DVD, it looks awsome (better than VHS tape, and last much longer too).

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 13:41:34, cruffino69 wrote:
Forgive me if this is the wrong assumption, but if you're comparing the quality of the VCD between playback on a computer monitor in a little window vs. playback on a large TV screen, then what you're experiencing is probably completely normal.

I should have added that 'I played the vcd back on my pc's
dvd player and the quality was poor.

VCD isn't really VHS quality; they're two very different storage mediums. They're only roughly equivalent in resolution, but even that's a stretch. I think you'll find most people here would agree to some degree that VCD is less than VHS quality.

I'm guessing that you're seeing lots of blockiness on the standalone playback on your TV. It's incredibly distracting, but that's the price you pay with low bit-rate MPEG files (it's the compression kicking in). It may not be as evident on your computer monitor, and it may be exacerbated by the differences in contrast/brightness, etc..
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct about the blockiness. The camera position
is behind the 'bride, groom and minister' and the groom's
father is in the first row (less than 5 feet back) and he is not recognizeable. His face is just blocks. I thought
the mpeg1 and the vcd would be the same. The origional
from a sony digital 8 camera recorder, I new I would not
get digital quality. The avi file was 4gig and the mpeg1
is 300meg with little loss in quality. The vcds are to low
quality.

thank you for your reply. If I got meg1 results I would be happy.
stephen

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 13:55:21, ktnwin wrote:
Or you could try XVCD. In my case, I use MPEG-1 resolution (352x240) and variable bit rate (0 to 2500 max), constant quality of about 80.

I am afraid you lost me, XVCD. Will it play on standalone
DVD players? How much time can I get on a XVCD.
Sorry I am new to this.

The resulting XVCD look great even on 50" big screen TV.
Of course, it does not match with the quality of my original VHS tape but it's much much better than VCD.
I never get VHS quality from a VHS source.

For source such as digital tape or DVD, it looks awsome (better than VHS tape, and last much longer too).


My source is digital tape. Also I have litterally hundreds
of vhs tapes I want to archive. But this quality issue
brought this to a stand sill. I shot my friends wedding
and burnt a vcd of it and it is so poor I don't even want to think about vhs would look like. I will read up on XVCD
so I can converse intelligently. Also I don't wnat to break
any rules, this sound like conversion, not burning exactly.

thank you for your reply
stephen
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[baker]

I find that vcd is better than vhs.How the hell could an xvcd not look as good as vhs!!?!!?!?!

Baker

[Dave B]

Stephen - I think we need to get a better understanding of what you're experiencing to be able to improve the quality of your VCD.

Are you saying that the MPEG-1 file, when viewed on your computer looks good but when the same file is burnt to VCD and played through your DVD player the quality takes a turn for the worse?

If this is the case then there is something fishy here as 99% of us find that VCDs look much better when played on TV (as they were originally designed to do) then on a computer monitor.

Have you played the MPEG-1 file full screen on your PC? Is the quality still acceptable?

Just to clear up some terms, there is no fixed MPEG-1 "quality" The MPEG algorithm allows a BITRATE setting to be set which is the major factor in perceived quality. Standard VCD specs say that this bitrate should be 1150kbps, what bitrate have you encoded your video in?

[doobster]

ok first off. when u first captured the mpeg1 file. what resolution did u cap at. bcuz capping at a higher resolution makes a big difference...if im capping a vhs i like to cap at 640x480 and stream it to mpeg1 or 2..and if u have lots of hd space to a loseless avi(although streaming to mpeg2 doesnt give me any loss on a fast computer)..then from there u encode that video with tmpgenc any way u like...

for anything other then tvrip is always best to cap at something x 480 as u get better quality...

just my two cents

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 15:31:03, Dave B wrote:
Stephen - I think we need to get a better understanding of what you're experiencing to be able to improve the quality of your VCD.

Are you saying that the MPEG-1 file, when viewed on your computer looks good but when the same file is burnt to VCD and played through your DVD player the quality takes a turn for the worse?

Yes I was saying that. But when you asked the question, I had not viewed the mpeg-1 in full screen (21inch viewsonic)
I did just that and the mpeg-1 is poor also ( to my defense
I made a vhs copy from camera direct to a vhs vcr S-video in
and it was vhs quality, average and when I saw my vcd poor I assumed my burn went astray).

If this is the case then there is something fishy here as 99% of us find that VCDs look much better when played on TV (as they were originally designed to do) then on a computer monitor.

It looks as bad on the tv as it does on the monitor
see my comments paragragh with a *.

Have you played the MPEG-1 file full screen on your PC? Is the quality still acceptable?

NO. see my comment on paragraph 1.

Just to clear up some terms, there is no fixed MPEG-1 "quality" The MPEG algorithm allows a BITRATE setting to be set which is the major factor in perceived quality. Standard VCD specs say that this bitrate should be 1150kbps, what bitrate have you encoded your video in?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

* I don't believe bitrate was an option. I used Ulead's
videostudio 5.0 the version that cam with my firewire card.
there is a version 'videostudio 5.0 dvd' that is a $130
tht comes with burning software. I am afraid that I have posted a question in the wrong area. Should I post a conversion question? I thought the mpeg-1 was good, neither
nero nor nti or the dvd player complained.

thank you for your help. If I understand correctly a good
mpeg-1 file is equal or better than vhs, right.
stephen

[Shabubu]

If your capping from a digital camera, then you've got close to DVD resoutions, I'd seriously suggest that you go for SVCD.

[Lamont Cranston]

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On 2001-11-26 17:02:11, stephen@kanza.net wrote:
* I don't believe bitrate was an option. I used Ulead's
videostudio 5.0 the version that cam with my firewire card.
there is a version 'videostudio 5.0 dvd' that is a $130
tht comes with burning software.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Your problem is the VideoStudio Mpeg encoder. The mpeg 1 encoder is very poor. I suggest you use TMPGEnc. You can find a link to the TMPGEnc encoder and a tutorial under the tabs at the left of this screen.

[threev]

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On 2001-11-26 13:55:21, ktnwin wrote:
Or you could try XVCD. In my case, I use MPEG-1 resolution (352x240) and variable bit rate (0 to 2500 max), constant quality of about 80.

The resulting XVCD look great even on 50" big screen TV.
Of course, it does not match with the quality of my original VHS tape but it's much much better than VCD.
I never get VHS quality from a VHS source.

For source such as digital tape or DVD, it looks awsome (better than VHS tape, and last much longer too).

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you had any luck with xvcd 2500 bit rate and say a higher resolution like 352x480 (I have read here that is the standard for chinese vcd's)

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 16:10:13, doobster wrote:
ok first off. when u first captured the mpeg1 file. what resolution did u cap at. bcuz capping at a higher resolution makes a big difference...if im capping a vhs i like to cap at 640x480 and stream it to mpeg1 or 2..and if u have lots of hd space to a loseless avi(although streaming to mpeg2 doesnt give me any loss on a fast computer)..then from there u encode that video with tmpgenc any way u like...

for anything other then tvrip is always best to cap at something x 480 as u get better quality...

just my two cents
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
I used Ulead VideoStudio 5.0 to capture the avi (4gig)
then I used same to create the mpeg-1 file choosing mpeg-1 for ntsc. I didn't havw any cap options. from what you gus are telling me I should go post my question on conversions.
is tmpgenc a conversion program?
thank you for your 2cents.
stephen

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 17:44:46, Shabubu wrote:
If your capping from a digital camera, then you've got close to DVD resoutions, I'd seriously suggest that you go for SVCD.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks I will check it SVCD's. do they play in standalone
dvd players and how much time will I get. I am sure the
answers to this in other forums.
stephen

[stephen@kanza.net]

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On 2001-11-26 17:47:40, Lamont Cranston wrote:
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On 2001-11-26 17:02:11, stephen@kanza.net wrote:
* I don't believe bitrate was an option. I used Ulead's
videostudio 5.0 the version that cam with my firewire card.
there is a version 'videostudio 5.0 dvd' that is a $130
tht comes with burning software.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Your problem is the VideoStudio Mpeg encoder. The mpeg 1 encoder is very poor. I suggest you use TMPGEnc. You can find a link to the TMPGEnc encoder and a tutorial under the tabs at the left of this screen.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks I going there now
stephen