JLWsales Epson R200 CIS Review

[jeff d]

What the hell, I've been holding off on this for too long so I just did it. =)

Things look good, but I'm not 100% sure it's good to go. The black line had something obstructing the flow so I worked that out by drawing the ink through with a syringe. (Good think I've got like 100 of these large ones!) I let more come through to "clear the line". In all it took 1oz of ink from all the lines to get them primed. I screwed up and ink did get all over with a few of the colors.

Last week I had done the waste ink mod as was happy to see it working. Man the ink SHOOTS out of there! Good 1/2 oz or so for the initial prime/clean setup.

Test images look pretty close to the epson colors. The only thing I notice is the reds are slightly less pronounced. I'm not sure this isn't due to a problem in the lines, but I'll keep watching and try some other test prints.

[macrovision]

Jeff d, I wish you luck with your ink system....as for the removal of the hoses instead of the carts to prime??? NOT!...Ya see, These "Gravity" Kits work opposite to what you imply. I have removed the hoses dozens of times...What happens when you do this is "Back-flow"...The ink will receed to the tanks because the vacuum is no longer present. The only way it will flow out is if you move the hoses below the tanks "Center of gravity" BTW, My printer is acting a little stupid..Why? I'm guessing I print too much. I go through approx. 600ml of ink a month....Maybe 2-3 hundred DVD's and case lables a month. Lately I've been getting bad nozzle checks that clear themselves up in a couple of hours...this is due to "Ink-Foam"....Head cleanings do not help one bit and that pisses me off because I have quite a few orders to fill and no time to wait for "Perfect nozzle checks" so I'm considering buying a backup Epson along with refillable carts....Maybe an R300 with colour screen...$169.00 here in N.Y.

[jeff d]

macro, can you give a little more info on the vacuum? I can understand if there was one in the carts and drawing ink from the tanks. Wouldn't the printer printing cause a vacuum to draw the ink in?

In case anyone wants 'em the monitors for the R300 printer can be picked up at the circuit city clearance for like $20.

[Idle]

macro, can you give a little more info on the vacuum? I can understand if there was one in the carts and drawing ink from the tanks. Wouldn't the printer printing cause a vacuum to draw the ink in?

Perhaps I might put my oar in here:

In all the CIS systems I've seen for Epson desktop printers (right back to the first tentative experimental layouts quite a few years ago), the ink feed is maintained by the vacuum created by the piezo mechanisms, which are effectively pumps -- they draw ink from the cartridge, pressurise it and eject it via the print nozzles, in the process setting up a slight vacuum that is sufficient to keep the flow going whilst the printer is working.

Once printing stops, flow will continue until equilibrium is achieved, then stop (remember from school: "Nature abhors a vacuum"?)

The ink feed is not, and must not become, a syphon -- setting it up as one will put positive pressure on the cartridge resulting in seepage through the print heads and leakage.

In fact, because the external ink supply is lower than the cartridges, any tendency to act as a syphon will be the other way -- cartridge to tank -- and this is prevented by the piezo units being one-way flow.

This is also why you'll have trouble if the 'O' rings in the cartridge outlets don't create a perfect seal -- air will get in and allow ink to drain back to the tanks.

This can happen even though no ink is seen to be leaking into the printer -- unless the seal is really bad the reverse syphon effect will keep the ink inside the system.

This may (not necessarily will...) also allow air bubbles to be drawn into the print head if they enter the cartridge outlet whilst the printer is working -- if they enter whilst it's idle they'll just rise to the top.

This is getting a bit long-winded, so I'll leave it at that.

[macrovision]

Idle, Thanks a mill......You said it better than I might have. To add...think of a woofer pumping bass at a high volume. If you put your hand in front you'll feel the air....of course in back there's a vacuum. Science states simply " to every effect there's an opposite effect. Like throwing a rock in a lake. Piezo-elements like that in the print-head are used in beepers and PDA's...they're like speakers. When the nozzles push a drop of ink out it sucks a drop of ink in keeping the vacuum at the constant it's at, But air in the line during printing will decrease the vacuum and when the printer is idle you'll eventually see the air in the line because the air will not mix with the ink...instead it'll stay on top and without the vacuum being strong enough it'll separate the constant flow of ink.

[jeff d]

So, what I did was remove the line from the cart at the seal. the seal isn't an O-ring, but a bit of tubing with a flair at the end (top) and the tubing for the ink sits inside that to form the seal.

I disconnected the tubing and let ink flow down (gravity)and out, then I put the tube back into the cart. Now, if there were some sort of artificial vacuum I think I would have heard that as I removed the tubing, or maybe not.

I'm thinking that no matter what I do as long as there's a good seal the draw from the print head will keep the ink flowing into the cart. Right?

I think what I did is ok, but macro you made me second guess what I did, so I just want to try and clarify. I'm not trying to introduce any "air intake" or anything else. I was just trying to get the air in the tubing out and removing the tubing was the only way I saw that as possible.

There's now (and most likely always was) some air in the cart itself. near where the ink feeds in. It also seems this air is a "normal" condition because of the way the chamber is designed it looks like the ink flows out the bottom up and to a second chamber before down to the outlet.

What I believe you are saying is that there's no such thing as a "gravity feed" CIS, but in fact it's a "vacuum feed". Despite the description of the creator it's not gravity and that's a reason for not putting the tanks above the printer, then it really would be a gravity feed and the result would be leaks galore. This makes sense as idle said "Nature abhors a vacuum", true nature seeks a balance or equilibrum. It makes sense...

So, my real question... since things have been working OK is.... did I screw anything up with what I did? If so how can I correct it?

[Idle]

I don't think you screwed anything up -- the ideal with any liquid flow is to have a solid column of liquid with no air in it (think of your car's brakes and what happens if air gets in.)

Another way of understanding vacuum feed is to look at it as being pushed by atmospheric pressure (using the outside air as a pump by reducing the pressure inside) so that liquid removed at one end is instantly replaced at the other.

For this reason, CIS systems don't work all that well at high altitudes -- there just isn't enough air pressure to overcome the inertia of the liquid.

If you got rid of all the air in the lines, you should have an ideal setup -- if air comes back, you might have a leak somewhere, or there might still have been bubbles in the carts.

[macrovision]

What Idle posted is th answer you need. If you messed anything up you would know because you'd have a visible pocket of air in the tubes and the pocket of air would be rather large....large enough to make you worry.


As for me.....I'm gonna buy another printer but I'm not sure about which one I'll need but let me explain.

I have a rather small issue with my R200. All of the nozzles fire but a few of them fire premature. The nozzle check shows some lines in the wrong place...they're supposed to look like a staircase but one or two are under instead of over the previous line and because of this my text only prints have gaps at the very bottom of the letters. I called Epson and the Tech immediately asked whether or not I print alot...I printed about 1000 DVD's and case covers in the last 4 months and he stated that this printer isn't made for that type of printing...that what I need is an R800 or R1280. So, I'm gonna have it serviced because I don't think the problem is in the printhead...all nozzles do indeed fire so I think it may be the main board....processor....Whatever! But on a more positive note my DVD's and covers still look impressive but I'm a perfectionist so I'll buy a backup....this way I'll have one for covers and the other for DVD's....and of course I'm gonna have this one serviced.....I already did realignments and used the tech program Jeff d sent me with no luck so next time I'll get refillable carts instead of a cis and use that for DVD's only since that uses less ink.

[locky]

Mac, like you said the new cart from JLW can be used as a refillable, so how I refill the cart, is it the same hole where the CIS connecting ?

thanks

[poolenglish]

next time I'll get refillable carts instead of a cis and use that for DVD's only since that uses less ink.

works for me, no overanalization....print the product ($100 printer) make money!

my cartridge are pics below vvv





and btw;

cis sucks the big weenie

[macrovision]

Yes Locky, That's where you fill them but without the hoses you'll need the plug for the hole. The plug looks exactly like the ones on poolenglish's carts but because there's only one hole on the JLW carts the plug has a small hole in it for a vent. It'll let the printer pull ink but no vent will cause no ink to come out and the rapid movement of the printhead will cause spillage without the plug. You can look at the $21 refillables at the Waytoprint E-bay store. They're spongeless and look really good but $21 gets you no chips....the link is on the last one or two pages in the "Best Cis forum". If you can't find it I'll post it for you. Let me know if you can't find the link. LOL!

[locky]

Mac, tried to fill but ink only fill to the small chamber (the upper right) under the hole ? any treat that I missed ? thx

[poolenglish]

Mac, tried to fill but ink only fill to the small chamber (the upper right) under the hole ? any treat that I missed ? thx

locky;this link will help for refilling 1 hole carts

http://www.inkbank.com.au/category56_1.htm

I prefer the 2 hole carts like i have.... because the carts never have to leave the printer. good luck.

[locky]

poolenglish, thanks for the link. Will try after work, is vacuum tool = syringe ?

[poolenglish]

poolenglish, thanks for the link. Will try after work, is vacuum tool = syringe ?

It appears to be the same, as long as you have a good seal (without needle attached) and you can pull vacuum with ink in the syringe, it looks like it will work. You will be sucking air out of the cart, creating a vacuum which will be replaced with the ink. Only half fill the syringe, so you can pull back to create the vacuum.

[macrovision]

Poolenglish....your right! I hate damn priming..I love the quality of the Epson "R" line but it's a pain in the *ss.....F**K Mods....I'm gonna get something that's simple to refill and printhead can be replaced like a Canon Pixma or Primera, Everest...Something...!Damn...I gotta get ready for bed 'cause I gotta goto work tommorrow. Peace!

[jeff d]

mv and idle, for me the tops of the carts have a bit of air, but like I said before that shouldn't ever get into the head because it appears the tank is drained from the bottom.

I was thinking of grabbing a syringe (gotta love diabetics and lots of syringes to play with!) and drawing the air out, thus creating a vacuum to pull more ink from the tanks.

One note to the person asking about the one hole refil... the technique is simple (nurses and such could even show you...) but the trick is (and this should be common sense...) When you are doing this, you can hold the cart upside-down or right side up. The thing is you do need it right side up for the filling back. Gravity will keep the ink in the bottom and air in the top of the syringe. If you go for the upside down drawback and flip to fill technique be sure to keep a firm grip on the plunger when flipping over, it will suck back in if the vacuum is strong enough.

[dmagic1]

Poolenglish, I know you probably said it before but where did you get your ink and carts? Link?

[Bodyslide]

I was supposed to remove the rubber plug on the tank side of the cart...my bad. Now all is good and nice to NOT see the hoses going back and forth! thx macro

btw www.printforless.tk is where i bought the refillable carts. they have a sponge(foam) in the feed side, auto reset chips installed.
also, this is the new version he has which can be filled while in the printer.

He got his from http://www.printforless.tk/, it's on page 28. I emailed the guy a few weeks back and he said the webpage hasn't been updated for the cartridges but he still sells them.

[macrovision]

Thanks Bodyslide...I'm starting to hate being inconvienced by the hoses....Air gaps in the lines when I do massive printing...so far almost 350 DVD's and covers in the last 3 weeks...about every fifty or so DVD's, when the printhead parks I see the ink receed toward the tanks leaving a large air gap between the carts and the hoses. It's been like this since I bought my CIS and If I hadda left my wastepad the way the printer comes from the day I bought the printer I would have needed to have the printer serviced a long time ago...and I couldda cut the padding in the bottom of the printer up...put it in breath-mint tins and sold it to a rubber stamp company. During large print jobs I lose more than half of my 40ml tanks to autoclean cycles....6 resets....5-7ml waste per reset. The resetting is one chip at a time. The next chip resets shortly after the previous chip..and so on/so forth! Thanks everyone. LOL!

[poolenglish]

Poolenglish, I know you probably said it before but where did you get your ink and carts? Link?

dmagic1;

http://www.cisprintforless.tk/

contact info;
printforless@verizon.net
Or call at (603)369-3637

I emailed him, he invoiced me via paypal and I had the ink and carts in 3 days .
The set still works great and I have printed a lot.... three refills so far and it is simple to refill . I especially like leaving the carts in the printer to refill, no wear and tear on cartridge connector pins.

[goldthorne]

Ok I bought this system 6 months ago and i had no problems intill now. Now both off my cyans will not print. I bought a new r200 and the same thing happens. What is my problem ? also how much was the refilable carts with all the tools and ink?.Last is can i use my ink from my cis system for my refillable carts or is that a bad idea? let me know


thank s for the help ahead of time

[poolenglish]

goldthorne; the link for my refillables is just above yours. I bought the ink from him also. (pics are earlier). I drained the ink from my jwl and filled the new carts with it, wortks great!

[goldthorne]

thanks i will def buy them then. I could not find the price for the carts and the ink. How much did you pay for yours

[poolenglish]

I think $80 complete.... ink and carts delivered priority mail (included). e mail or call him and ask, i am not sure.

[alfredr200]

I have noted in the past that a lot has been said about the poor quality of the gray "O" rings used in the JLWsales cartridges. What I would like to know is can the black better quality "O" ring from an old OEM cartridge be used to replace the gray poor quality one in the JLWsales cartridge??? In otherwords why throw away old JLWsales cartridges that don't work but instead try to retrofit them with better "O" rings from old Epson OEM cartridges???? This is my first post so I hope it gets in the right form.

Alfredr200

[macrovision]

I can't wait to order my Canon IP series printer....Epson should consider advancing their technology...like flexible teflon nozzles and a inverted pump to blow any dried particles from the nozzles. The issues developing with ink waste and clogging makes the Epson "XXX" series look bad however it's the best photo printer I've ever used. As a matter of a fact I don't want to buy a Canon but I'm curious as to how the DVD printing quality will look compared to the Epson R200 I've been using and considering the fact that the Canon IP series doesn't autoclean and has a user changable print-head If the quality 4800X1200 compared to Epson's 5740X1200 is not that noticable then I'm trashing my Epson and will buy an American Canon IP series printer along with my European Canon IP series printer. (One for DVD case labels and one for direct DVD printing) LOL!

[linfor]

What about the JLW 6th system?

[macrovision]

linfor, So far as I know.....It's alot better than the older unit. It appears to be one of the best available however it's a little too expensive given the fact that you can purchase units that'll perform as well for less $

[linfor]

Macro,
Can you recommend a unit. You have done extensive research and you caught on to the JLW inital problem quicker than others.