1st Netflix, 2nd Walmart, 3rd Blockbuster, 4th Amazon.com

[Billf2099]

As a forum reader and former Blockbuster Employee I feel I must comment. To set things straight I will say this about my employment at Blockbuster. I left on good terms with the company, I have a real job and only worked there to pay my children's tuition during a two year period. In that time I was made a Shift Manager. I don't own their stock so I am commenting based on my experiences as an employee.

The remark about X % of their profit coming from late fees is not true. Very few people are actually late with their movies. Of those people who are late most pay their late fees without a complaint because most people understand that keeping a movie an extra 2 days actually does cost a store money. Particularly on new releases. Then there are those other customers. An actual small percentage of customers who thinks that if they are late so what. And furthermore, we try to make movies late on purpose. I've heard every story in the world from customers. Including how we purposely left their movies in the drop box for 2 days to make them late. Right, the drop box holds about 2 hours of movies and is emptied about 5-10 times a day. There's no money in movies not available for rental. Mistakes are made. Everyday a report would print out of the movies that were late. An employee would then go around the store and look for the movies that were 'late'. Generally we would find between 0-5% of the movies/games on that list. Which is typically 1-2 items a day. Those items are then checked in and the customers account is cleaned of late charges for that item. I know this because I was the one who did it every shift I worked. But that matters not. Because the person working behind the counter in general is LOOKING for a reason not to charge you. Guess who doesn't get consideration. The person who KNOWS they have late fees because they come up and start argueing with you about them before you can even say a word to them about a problem in their account. Its called customer good will. At my store we had high profitability, great return customers and expanding business. And we had that 1% of complete pains in the ass. At my store I had customers turn on these jerks. So those people not coming back when people bend over backwards is a blessing, to everyone. I had one customer who was so late all the time and paid huge late fees. Thank god they have this monthly program for him. We used to forgive a big bunch of his late fees anyway. He was late on some of the more esoteric stuff, meaning, we weren't losing rentals on it.

I just wanted to get that off my chest because as a video renter for 20 years before I became a store person I can say with all honesty I never got charged once for something that wasn't true. And people saying they didn't know that there were 'fees' for being late is insane. Tell me this. If you returned a car 3 days late would you not expect to pay for those 3 days?

Oh yes, I don't rent from Blockbuster. Too expensive. *eg*

[twinches]

For those of you wanting to know what else netflix will be able to over in the future in order to beat out the compititoin, read the interview below... looks like they are making a deal with Tivo to deliver DVD downloads through a Tivo device.

Engadget Interviews Mike Ramsay, TiVo CEO
Tech site Engadget cornered Mike Ramsay, CEO of TiVO, in the hallway of Web 2.0 conference.

Ramsay had this to say about the Netflix relationship:

Engadget: Tell me about the new deal with Netflix.
Ramsay: It’s about video rental. Most people these days, at least in this community, are buying music electronically. They’re not buying physical media. And I think the same thing will happen with video. Instead of going to the video store or getting your Netflix in the mail, it’s going to show up in your TiVo. It’s a natural. It doesn’t matter if it takes a day to get there, because Netflix takes a day anyway. People will get used to having a pipeline where content drips through. The transition to electronic distribution will be complete and we won’t be dealing with physical media.

Engadget: So you’ll be competing with services like Movielink and CinemaNow?

Ramsay: Not really. Netflix will be a download, and those other services are streaming. All broadband Internet distribution will be a download for the foreseeable future. Streaming offers less than television quality. We believe that everything you deliver to the television has to be TV quality or better—you can’t compromise on that. The only way you can do that in the U.S. today is by download.

[Capmaster]

What is with all the Netflix bashing lately?

Simple advice: If you don't like them ...don't buy their service. Nothing provides feedback better than reduced sales

[Gurm]

BillF209:

Here's the scoop with BlockBuster... some of this is from personal experience, some of it is from public information concerning their class-action settlements, and some of it is hearsay, but I'll try to be very conservative with that.

Several years back, Blockbuster switched away from a strictly "overnight rental" policy. Some of their releases were 2-day (new releases, typically), some were 5-day (older stuff), some were 7-day, etc.

All that is fine.

But then when it came time to compute late fees, they started thinking differently. Your 5-day rental is late? You get charged the full rental fee for every day that it's late. So if you keep "The Land Before Time" an extra day, that's $10 instead of $5. Ouch! Keep it an extra 5 days... and it's $30 instead of $5!

The percentage was highest on the older releases, to be sure - new releases you got $1 credit if you brought it back the next day, and they were only a 2-day rental anyway.

Now compare this to competing chains, like West Coast Video and Hollywood Video. Those companies... if it was late, it was re-upped. For the same fee you paid for the same number of days. You return your 5-day rental on day 6, it's $10 instead of $5... but it's that way even if it's returned on day 10.

As for drop-box malfeasance, I have PERSONALLY been the victim of it. Only once. It wasn't something that happened all the time, but once we returned a movie after the store was closed. We were out, it was late, and we dropped it in. We knew full well we'd have to pay a late fee, since the rules say to get the movie back before the store closes. No problem.

Imagine our shock a couple weeks later when we went in and were told that it had been returned - 10 DAYS LATE!

Now how does THAT happen, hmm? I believe you that it didn't happen on your shift at your store, absolutely. I'm not going to call you a liar - although the shift manager of THAT branch called my wife a liar to her face!

We eventually got it resolved - we had to talk to the GENERAL manager, and point out that we were OUT OF TOWN for two weeks and couldn't possibly have returned the movies when they were supposedly returned. We had even rented movies from a Blockbuster in North Carolina the day prior to the supposed late-return date.

He didn't offer any clear explanation, but DID issue an apology. And I was never rude. But it DOES happen. Who had the movies for 9 days? I have no idea.

Now, the class-action suit, which Blockbuster SETTLED at a HUGE cost to the company (which pretty much screams "hey lookit us, we're guilty!") charged that they were purposely making things confusing in order to make customers keep movies too long. I do recall being told on a number of occasions "well that has to be back by Wednesday at noon" even though I was renting the movie at 11PM... whereas other times it was "Wednesday by closing".

So I guess what I'm saying is that SOME of the bad things you hear about Blockbuster are true.

[Billf2099]

Gurm,
They were in the store all that time. Very likely NOT where they were supposed to be. Reshelved incorrectly. Eventually everything gets found.
The number one cause for stuff being in the wrong place is customers who put stuff EVERYWHERE. When it finally got found then someone screwed up. But trust me, it wasn't in the drop box. Since these errors happen and people who run the store know them, or worse OUGHT to know them and know that some of the ... errr... employees (fought down the urge to call them idiots) don't follow procedures all the time an apology for the problem and a prompt credit are absolutely the rule of the day.

Now as for the other stuff. Changing from MIDNIGHT to NOON a day later was about the most traumatic thing they ever could have done. I used to give credits all the time, but always tried to teach people all the time this one thing. "We gave an extra half day, not and extra full day." Apparently they thought their amuseing but not really informative commercial of people sleeping in their cars was supposed to convey that message.

The late fee is ONE rental fee for every rental period it's out. If someone was chargeing two rental's for one day late they got what they deserved. Then again I worked at a corporate store. Your store might have been owned by a franchisee who decided to ... screw his customers.

Why they settled. This is what they told us. They settled because the settlement costs was less then fighting it out in court. The settlement did not remove their right to charge late fees, only said that there was a 'problem' with the way it was administered.

Now as to what happened to you. If that happened to me I would never darken their door with my presence again. When I was on the other side of the counter I was called more names by these 1% of idiots that we all know in life. The good news is, my store had regular customers and I never had to take these jerks on. (Its not allowed anyway) My other customers would start yelling at them. That's because they know that all that is needed to get along in this life is a little mutual respect. That means calling someone a thief and lieing scumbag is going over the boundries. The Local GM is exactly who you escalate this stuff to. People get (and got) fired for that sort of stuff. They should. Its a customer service business first and foremost.

When they complained about the high price of movies I would smile and explain it was to pay my Princely salary. Say anything with a smile and you'd be surprised.

So anyway. Sorry about that jerk. (Force of habit) People would tell me about how at another Blockbuster they had a problem and I would say to them. "Oh, don't go over there, we are a much friendlier store here!"
Or I'd tell them to ask for (Name a clerk or Manager at that store) and tell them the problem they had.

Heck, I ought to get a paycheck from them this week after all this typing.
Nice talking at you.

[dvdragon]

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. No advertising.
/ Moderator Baldrick[/quote]


Does "no adverstising" mean "no adversting?"

[Madz]

Funny, someone mentioned way back in this thread that Walmart moves in and puts mom & pop stores out-of-business. Gee, I wonder how many mom & pop video stores as well as small local/regional chains have either been gobbled up (reopened as) or put out-of-business by Blockbuster in the last 15 years or so? The little guys, obviously, can't afford to purchase 50-100 copies of some major new release. But they often had a much better selection of older stuff, however. Anyhow, I've made my decision: I've had good success w/ Netflix (2-3-day average turnaround), so I'm staying on.

[jimmalenko]

I have the sneaky feeling that more and more customers are beginning to copy some of these rented disks onto their computer for later viewing while they are immediately returning the rental so they can get more disks each month.

surely not !

[DereX888]

I have the sneaky feeling that more and more customers are beginning to copy some of these rented disks onto their computer for later viewing while they are immediately returning the rental so they can get more disks each month.

surely not !

Actually - WHY NOT?
If they delete/erase such copied rental 'backups' after they have seen it - its all perfectly legal.
After all no one cant rent more than say 100 movies per month, unless they watch them 24/7... but even then some 250 movies per month would be the limit

[twilightzone]

Funny thing, the day after Amazon announced they would be joining the race with Netflix and Walmart, my netflix started turning around so fast like they did when I first signed up. When I drop movies off at the mailbox on Saturday, I get three news ones shipped out on Monday morning where before they usually wouldn't ship out until Tuesday or Wednesday even. I am even getting the new releases on the first pick. They shipped me out Dawn of the Dead on Monday and it doesn't even release until Tuesday. It's nice to see what happens when you light a fire under someones butt. Anybody else seeing the same thing with their netflix account????

[popeye1497]

.. Gee, I wonder how many mom & pop video stores as well as small local/regional chains have either been gobbled up (reopened as) or put out-of-business by Blockbuster in the last 15 years or so? The little guys, obviously, can't afford to purchase 50-100 copies of some major new release. ...

I dont know about where you live, but around here the mom and pop stores have gone into renting bootleg copies of movies that are out on the big screen. Never seen one of these movies thou, and not to mention they must have some big b@!!s to be doing that sort of thing.

[jimmalenko]

I have the sneaky feeling that more and more customers are beginning to copy some of these rented disks onto their computer for later viewing while they are immediately returning the rental so they can get more disks each month.

surely not !

Actually - WHY NOT?
If they delete/erase such copied rental 'backups' after they have seen it - its all perfectly legal.

legal schmegal

Fair use / Backup
When you own the media, they are the rights you get automatically DESPITE what content providers or laywers might tell you. These rights are fully supported by the crew at VCDhelp and are the basis for most of the site. These fair use rights evaporate when you sell the media in question.

Backup
You have the right to make A backup of your media. You can back up as much or as little as you wish.

Format shifting
You have the right to convert your media to another format.

Time shifting
You have the right to time shift your legitimately received cable, tv or satellite signal for viewing at a later time

Fair use DOES NOT APPLY TO rentals or borrowed media.

As I read it, Time Shifting is a subset of Fair Use. Fair Use doesn't apply to rentals, therefore Time Shifting does not apply to rentals.

So for the purposes of this site,

Whether it's legal in the real world is anyone's guess.

[dafoe]

I can't imagine any situation where copying a rental movie would be even remotely legal. Or for that matter, morally right

"Backing up" a rental to watch at a later time is stealing. The whole point of me paying $20-30 to purchase a DVD is to enjoy the privilege of watching it at my leisure.

That's one the drawbacks of renting: First you have to find an available copy. Then, you must rent said copy when you are reasonably certain you will have the opportunity to view it. This is a lot less convenient, but it is much cheaper

Either you rent and save money or you pay for the covenience or owning the movie. Pick one. Renting and stealing the content rights is not ok= no matter how you rationalize it.

I'm also pretty sure that advocating such actions is against forum rules.

[DereX888]

I can't imagine any situation where copying a rental movie would be even remotely legal. Or for that matter, morally right

"Backing up" a rental to watch at a later time is stealing. The whole point of me paying $20-30 to purchase a DVD is to enjoy the privilege of watching it at my leisure.

That's one the drawbacks of renting: First you have to find an available copy. Then, you must rent said copy when you are reasonably certain you will have the opportunity to view it. This is a lot less convenient, but it is much cheaper

Either you rent and save money or you pay for the covenience or owning the movie. Pick one. Renting and stealing the content rights is not ok= no matter how you rationalize it.

I'm also pretty sure that advocating such actions is against forum rules.

Buying it means you own unlimited, multiple viewing priviledge to that bought title.
Renting it means you purchased only time limited multiple viewing priviledge to the same title.
That is the only difference a far as I understand it.

Therefore:
If I backup a rental movie copy, and watch it i.e. only once - but year later - and delete it, where is it a crime since I have done exactly for what I have paid for?
Where does it say that I have to watch rented movie exactly in the timeframe of my rental?

[soloredd]

Blockbuster is about $3.00 for a rental.

Try $4.99 for all DVD's.

Wow, so that makes it more of a better deal for Netflix than I previously thought. Although, I don't remember paying $10 for 2 movies at Blockbuster, it was like $8.30 or something (Club Dread and The Wedding Singer).

And as far as that list of Netflix distro centers: there has to be some more that have gone up. I received 3 movies from Netflix last week that came from San Jose, CA but on the return label it sent them to Bakersfield, CA. Do you have a more up-to-date list?

[twinches]

What a great project to help confrim or deny the Netflix conspiracy....

Jim over at Listology.com latest project is the Netflix Queue Tracker:

Conspiracy theories abound regarding Netflix turnaround time: does Netflix throttle you if you rent too many movies? Do you get faster service as your renewal date approaches or if you rented few movies the previous month? Are some distribution centers slower than others?

This tool allows users to keep a log of their rentals, not only in terms of when Netlix ships and receives movies, but when the user receives and returns movies. With enough data, we can then create reports that illuminate shipping times, turnaround time, postal latency, Netflix latency, etc. Should be fun!

Also he says that, Even if you don't want to participate, could you please e-mail him (webmaster@listology.com) the distribution center code on your return address label as he is trying to identifying all of the Netflix distribution center codes :

[twinches]

And as far as that list of Netflix distro centers: there has to be some more that have gone up. I received 3 movies from Netflix last week that came from San Jose, CA but on the return label it sent them to Bakersfield, CA. Do you have a more up-to-date list?

Here is a more complete list. I still don't see Bakersfield. But maybe you can submitt your data to jim at the address in my last post regarding the tracker. I found this list here... http://www.listology.com/netflix_tracker_reports.cfm?report=centers

Center City/State Code
Austin, TX
Baton Rouge, LA
Bedford Park, IL
Birmingham, AL
Bowling Green, KY
Carol Stream, IL
Chattanooga, TN
Chicago, IL
Cleveland, OH
Columbia, SC
Coppell, TX
Dayton, OH
Daytona, FL
Denver, CO
Duluth, GA
Flushing, NY
Fresno, CA
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Gaithersburg, MD
Greensboro, NC
Hartford, CT
Houston, TX
Indianapolis, IN
Kansas City, MO
Lakeland, FL
Lansing, MI
Las Vegas, NV
Louisville, KY
Manchester, NH
Minneapolis, MN
New Brunswick, NJ
Newark, NJ
Orlando, FL
Paducah, KY
Philadelphia, PA
Phoenix, AZ
Pittsburgh, PA
Richmond, VA
Rochester, NY
Salem, OR
San Francisco, CA
San Jose, CA
Santa Ana, CA
Southeastern, PA
St. Louis, MO
Stamford, CT
Tacoma, WA
Tampa, FL
West Sacramento, CA
Worcester, MA

[jimmalenko]

If I backup a rental movie copy, and watch it i.e. only once - but year later - and delete it, where is it a crime since I have done exactly for what I have paid for?
Where does it say that I have to watch rented movie exactly in the timeframe of my rental?

1. Backing it up breaks the law to start with because you are circumventing the encryption on the DVD.

Secondly, when you rent a DVD, you have full privilege to view it. No copying, unauthorised distribution or reproduction, display at a public place, etc etc etc. you know the spiel - same as when you purchase it.

3. Your rental "contract" for each DVD expires as soon as you return the DVD, and with it, your right to watch said movie. The only physical way you could possibly watch it after you return it is if you have broken the first two points above.

It's splitting hairs I know, but it is illegal for any or all of the above reasons, take your pick.

[only_emo_kid]

OMG.. Netflix SUCKS!! I signed up with them on Tuesday the 18th, They did'nt ship my dvds until Thursday the 21st, I didn't get them until MONDAY the 25th.. Okay, they were put back in the mail MONDAY!! which were on they're way back to them MONDAY!, and they still haven't recevied them, much less they should have already received them and shipped me my next 3!!!! It was sent from Maryland and i'm in Wv.. on yahoo maps where they are is only 6hrs away.. WTF

[ViRaL1]

OMG.. Netflix SUCKS!! I signed up with them on Tuesday the 18th, They did'nt ship my dvds until Thursday the 21st, I didn't get them until MONDAY the 25th.. Okay, they were put back in the mail MONDAY!! which were on they're way back to them MONDAY!, and they still haven't recevied them, much less they should have already received them and shipped me my next 3!!!! It was sent from Maryland and i'm in Wv.. on yahoo maps where they are is only 6hrs away.. WTF

I think something's wrong with your calendar.

If it's only 6 hours, why not drive and drop them off?

[only_emo_kid]

whut? wtf are u talking about

[skebenin]

Wait - you're in the trial period and your getting your disks really slowly?

But the conspiracy theory says people in the trial period always get their disks faster than anyone else.

I guess NetFlix must be trying some new tactic. Of course, I can't figure out what this new tactic is supposed to achieve, but I'm sure someone will figure it out - after all, the evidence is incontrovertible.

[only_emo_kid]

new tactic sends me to blockbuster

[jimmalenko]

Wait - you're in the trial period and your getting your disks really slowly?

But the conspiracy theory says people in the trial period always get their disks faster than anyone else.

I guess NetFlix must be trying some new tactic. Of course, I can't figure out what this new tactic is supposed to achieve, but I'm sure someone will figure it out - after all, the evidence is incontrovertible.

That just splattered their non-existent theory.

[only_emo_kid]

i'm still pissed lmao

[kirpen]

I have seeen a drop in how many dvds I can get in a month from netflix. Right now I a limited to 6 movies per week. For some reason no matter how quickly I return dvds they only ship twice per week to me. I dont know that it some policy they have or if its because my new dist center isnt as good as the old one. They switched me from huston ( 200 miles away) to austin (80 miles) . Huston was much faster.

[Gurm]

Will you LISTEN to yourself?

"No matter how fast I return them they only ship to me two times a week..."

And you think that's LOUSY? Where in the terms of your contract did they ever guarantee you more than two shipments a week? I think that's really GOOD service, even GREAT service.

6 movies a week? That's 25 a month! That's like 75 cents a movie. You're COMPLAINING about this?

[jimmalenko]

"...but the deal said unlimited..."

[Capmaster]

I especially like the comedic value of the folks who use Netflix, get 25 new movies or more a month, immediately head for their PC so they can rip and burn the rentals onto DVD...(come on ...let's be real here ....you know who you are, even if you deny it ) .......


...and then they have the unmitigated gall to complain that they're not getting their 75-cent hollywood-produced DVDs fast enough ...that Netflix is out to ruin their lives because they got 6 instead of 9 movies last week ...............

[ViRaL1]

What I want to know is, if Netflix DOES always have the videos in stock ready to ship to each and every customer as soon as they get the previous videos back in stock, what do they have to lose other than measly shipping charges which they more than likely write off as a business expense anyway? Is it enough that anyone could say it would justify lost revenues from lost customers? It just doesn't add up.

Also...

OMG.. Netflix SUCKS!! I signed up with them on Tuesday the 18th, They did'nt ship my dvds until Thursday the 21st, I didn't get them until MONDAY the 25th.. Okay, they were put back in the mail MONDAY!! which were on they're way back to them MONDAY!, and they still haven't recevied them, much less they should have already received them and shipped me my next 3!!!! It was sent from Maryland and i'm in Wv.. on yahoo maps where they are is only 6hrs away.. WTF

I think something's wrong with your calendar.

If it's only 6 hours, why not drive and drop them off?

whut? wtf are u talking about

If Tuesday is the 18th, how the hell is Thursday the 21st?