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  1. gamesforrent.com does games, $15.99 for 3 at a time. Dunno how they rate.

    What's so great about Amazon.com that the stock of netflix should change so much?

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    Originally Posted by handyguy
    gamesforrent.com does games, $15.99 for 3 at a time. Dunno how they rate.

    What's so great about Amazon.com that the stock of netflix should change so much?
    That they can undercut Netflix on price, because they have deeper pockets.

    This happens all the time - some giant company decides to offer a service that a smaller startup offers, and in order to squish the smaller startup (or make an eventual hostile bid for them) they undercut the price, sometimes by only a buck or two but sometimes by as much as half.

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    I have followed the Netflix threads on this site for a while. I use Netflix ,at the 3 out level, I have had no problem getting 12 disks per month ,that's 3 per week, and knowing their cost's I don't feel it's realistic to expect more. I even posted the comment that Netflix should change their policy to allow only(x) amount of DVD'S out per month per customer. It would not help their current problems but it would eliminate a lot of criticism. And if they are holding back DVD'S, then maybe they wouldn't feel compelled to do so. All of the above mentioned companies are trying to make a profit by providing a service not a product. They can cut a dollar here or there from their competitors but nothing is going to help. To digress, I remember a few years ago at the height of the dot com bubble there was a company called Stamps dot com that went public and it's stock price was rapidly driving up, the next day, I sold off any dot com stock I had. This company sold a service that provided someone else's product (stamps) at a very slight increase in price. For the people that drove up the price of that stock, how much profit did they think there was in selling postal stamps?

    Anyway to get back to my point, All of these companies are limited by the cost of stamps $.37 x 2 for a round trip, 12 out per mo = $8.88; 15 per mo = $ 11.10. Doesn't leave much money left for any of them to hire employees or buy DVD'S.

    The problem with all these companies is that the concept mail out- mail back has it's limitation's that not even Amazon.com can overcome. If a company would begin shipping 2 disks per envelope, the cost per disk there and back would be slightly less $.60 vs. $.74. Some saving but not much. Another way for these companies to compete with each other is for those with brick and mortar facilities to allow customers to drop off the disks at their stores. This might help the profit picture, but I don't know. What else can they do?
    1. Ship lighter disks so that 2 in a mailer only require $.37 postage.
    2. Use the self destructing disks that are maybe in the works so they don't have to be sent back

    I can't think of anything else that would help. And while all this is happening, technology is moving forward with faster download rates and in time will eliminate the efficiency of mailing movies at all.

    I think the companies now providing mailing service are on the downside of technology and there is no reason to think that in short order, unless they can change their service model, they will all fall by the wayside.

    Now, I'm not a tech ii so maybe I'm all wrong about a lot of this. I don't want to be presumptuous, but if possible, I would like to hear some comments from Lordsmurf or someone else of his stature about the technology of what's happening now and what's likely to happen in the near term regarding the movies we get and how were going to be getting them.

  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gurm
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I have documentation that proves Netflix held my rental returns for three full business days and then denied having them. They finally admitted to them being at the Post Office. They refused to ship the new releases because, get this, they hadn't picked up the old ones.
    I didn't write that.
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    Originally Posted by skebenin
    Here's why so many 'loyalists' think the conspiracy theory is a load of bunk.

    For every 50,000 customers:
    • 49,900 are satisfied; service meets or exceeds their expectations
    • 100 are not satisfied
    • 75 of those are lunatics for any of a variety of reasons (expecting 100 disks a month, outraged at a three day turn around, sees short wait but freind sees available now, whatever)
    • 15 have legitimate complaints, but NetFlix isn't to blame despite their belief to the contrary
    • 7 have legitimate complaints where NetFlix is to blame, but bail before there is any chance for the issues to resolve
    • 3 have repeated issues, not because NetFlix is out to get them, but simply due to statistics; there are going to be periods of service disruption, and some unlucky few are going to get more than their fair share of bad luck
    • 5 non-customers get into the fray posting false claims (my brother's friend's wife's kid had NetFlix loose 10 disks in a row, yadda, yadda, yadda)
    I'm interested to know how 49,900 customers were verified as being satisfied. Just because they're not on here posting about problems doesn't mean every netflix customer is satisfied.

    I am a netflix loyalist for sure. I think it's an awesome company that has treated me way better than I could expect, but I'm also open minded enough to admit it's possible these complaints are valid. But I'm the type of guy who never discredits anything, because I know nothing's certain. Anyway, it seems like there IS a good amount of people on here who have problems (and I'll go ahead and believe they aren't making them up for fun), and to be logical I'd compare that number of people with the number of people on here who aren't having problems, not with the total number of netflix customers.

    Unless there was some poll before, and there really are that many people who responded saying they were happy with the service.

    The netflix defenders seem just about as loco as the netflix haters. I don't see why anyone would take the time to argue with someone who claims to have a problem. Does it really bother you that much when you feel a company is being falsely accused of bad service?

  6. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Everybody that keeps talking about 37 cents both ways needs to stop. That's not how bulk mail works. At very minimum standard, they go out pre-sorted first class mail, which is far cheaper than 37 cents. Your math won't ever make any sense this way. The fact that a barcode is printed on the envelope already gives them a huge discount.

    Many people already ship multiple discs back in a single case. This is good. Netflix should encourage this more.

    The thing nobody wants to acknowledge is easy. When you put your envelopes in the mail drop box, they do not stay together. By the time it hits sorting rooms, hubs, and handlers and carriers, your discs may be days apart in different bags in different trucks.

    And because of this, you can neither expect "all your discs" to come right away, or even for multi discs in the same envelope.

    I think the biggest problem with a "netflix sucks" personality (and even some of those that defend it) is a complete lack of understanding about how USPS works.

    The simple fact is that, if you don't like the mail, and you prefer to spend time and gas driving to a local store, then maybe you're better off doing just that. It gives you more control over delivery. That's really what this is all about.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I didn't write that.
    My bad, I was quote clipping.

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    Originally Posted by Brent212
    I'm interested to know how 49,900 customers were verified as being satisfied. Just because they're not on here posting about problems doesn't mean every netflix customer is satisfied.

    <snip>

    and to be logical I'd compare that number of people with the number of people on here who aren't having problems, not with the total number of netflix customers.
    Problem with THIS line of thinking is that happy customers don't post on forums.

    So what you get on here is a very select subset - people who like copying DVD's (*ahem* legally, OF COURSE, right?) UNION (pretend to remember algebra) people who have Netflix memberships. I think you'll find that this select subset is FAR more demanding and MUCH more likely to bitch if they have a problem of any kind than the average person who simply doesn't want the hassle of returning videos on time.

    I mean, how many people here buy their movies at retail for full price? But that's where I see all the free netflix memberships and handouts - at Suncoast, or Record Town, or other places like that.

    You have to use some generalizations. I don't have the numbers, but there's a distinct correlation between numbers of people unhappy and numbers of angry forum posts - it's pretty linear.

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    I'm a satisfied Netflix subcriber getting 18 movies/month at the 3 out level. I think its a good deal at $22/month and an even better one at $18/month. I don't want to have to drive 20 miles round trip to Blockbuster and I doubt if Walmart will be any better, however some compitition is always good. So bring it on...
    Big Government is Big Business.. just without a product and at twice the price... after all if the opposite of pro is con then wouldn’t the opposite of progress be congress?

  10. chas0039:

    I know that there are p0rn dvd rentals, but none really rent Hollywood movies with the same level as Netfix, BB, WMart.

    Not that I really care.


    (I guess the joke was lost. )
    For the love of God, use hub/core labels on your Recordable Discs!

  11. Member classfour's Avatar
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    I tried NetFlix awhile back - I doubt they were sitting on the discs, but the transit time from California to KY was the problem. 5 days each way, which meant 6 to 9 DVDs per month for $24 (after sales taxes, etc.), instead of the $19.95 it would cost in some other states; which was not economical when Movie Gallery was offering $1 rentals each Wed.

    I'm trying WalMart DVD Rentals right now, and am hoping they'll have quicker turn around.

    I use TurboGamer for my son's game rentals, and couldn't be happier. averaging 12 games per month with plenty of play time between shipments.

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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The voice of reason.
    It's good to know other intelligent people are around.
    Anybody that doesn't agree with your OPINION is an idiot? Do you have any idea how childish and offensive that sounds?

    This kind of attitude is exactly the reason I refuse to argue this issue. You have made up your mind and nobody is going to change it.

    Perhaps this a poor analogy, because I actually have proof to support my position. But, this reminds me of the old DVD- vs DVD+ debates/flame wars that used to pop up on this forum every couple of days

    Why in the world are we arguing about this? Who cares?!!

    If people want to vent about Netflix, they should be able to do so without being attacked. To all you people that think Netflix is great: Wouldn't the mature thing to do be to simply take the high road and leave the disgruntled Netflix customers alone.

    This reminds me of the one or two jerks every week that find thier way to the local New England Patriots fan forum and start trashing the Patriots and thier fans and then run thier mouth about how thier team is going to demolish the Patriots that week. In a Patriots fan forum!! WTF is the point?!! Some people aren't happy unless they are stirring up trouble.

    To Gurm:
    Your mock phone transcript was amusing. And I don't doubt that occasionally it happens. But trust me, being cheated by Netflix is not enough to send me into an abusive rage. I've got much better things to worry about.

    But your attitude regarding customer service (one that is apparently shared by Netflix) is completely out of whack.

    Sure there are people that will try to find loopholes to exploit companies for free stuff, but the majority of complaints are legit. That is why companies like Disney, Pizza Hut, Walmart, etc as you put it "Kiss people's ass." It make much better business sense to take care of customers than to assume every complaint is an attempt to extort product.

    By refusing to fix the problem THEY created, they lost my business forever. Do you honestly think that saving a dollar or two on shipping is woth losing a customer who never kept movies for less than 3-4 days (with the exception of a couple of experiments) and never rented a single new release?

    By providing that level of "customer service" they lost a valuable opportunity to build customer loyalty with thousands of customers who are now disgruntled.

    If any company should have been "kissing customer's asses" it was Netflix.
    What is happening with Amazon.com is what happens anytime someone pioneers a service. As soon as it is stabilized and proven to be viable, the big boys come in and crush or buy out the little guy. They had to have seen it coming.

    Now Netflix is fighting a David vs Goliath battle and they have created a legion of disgruntled customers before Amazon even fires the first shot.

    But that's not my problem.

  13. Originally Posted by dafoe
    To all you people that think Netflix is great: Wouldn't the
    mature thing to do be to simply take the high road and leave the disgruntled Netflix customers alone.

    To all you people that think Netflix is a POS: Wouldn't the
    mature thing to do be to simply take the high road and leave the happy Netflix customers alone.



    Spot the difference

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    The other problem for Netflix is they have pissed off thousands of customers with thier well documented delay tactics. I have seen them first hand and would never go back to that company- no matter what the price. Unlike most, I have proof. But that's not something I'm not interested in debating.
    References are all over the internet.

    But you, like the many "Netflix Conspiracy" theorists, refuse to be deterred by the mountain of testimonials all over the internet from dissatisfied customers or the experiments and reports that prove Netflix is engaging in these practices.

    I have documentation that proves Netflix held my rental returns for three full business days and then denied having them. They finally admitted to them being at the Post Office. They refused to ship the new releases because, get this, they hadn't picked up the old ones.
    Netflix has a huge customer base. The odds of having several dissatisfied customers are huge! I have tons of complaints about Wal-Mart (the store) along with thousands of other people, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people who a satisfied with Wal-Mart and shop there on a regular basis.

    Besides, just because some yahoo on the internet is telling me they got screwed by Netflix and have proof of the a conspiracy against them, I'm not going to bail on Netflix! Why? Because they haven't done anything to me! I could care less about someone else's freakin' Netflix problems. Also, what are you doing? Staking out the post office looking for Netflix shipping problems? Jesus...

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    Originally Posted by dafoe
    If people want to vent about Netflix, they should be able to do so without being attacked. To all you people that think Netflix is great: Wouldn't the mature thing to do be to simply take the high road and leave the disgruntled Netflix customers alone.
    A vent is exactly what all these "Netflix sucks" threads are. I don't have access to netflix but it never ceases to amaze me how "factual" some of these vents claim to be. What about the mail service ? Big black hole there IMO.

    We learn good judgement from bad experiences, which are initially caused by bad judgement. If you don't like something, discontinue it. No mess, no fuss, lesson learnt.

    /End rant
    If in doubt, Google it.

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    The whole idea of a forum is to inform others of one's experience. If someone writes in and says vdub does a bad job of converting to xvid, no one (hopefully) would just say, "Then don't use it". There wouldn't ever be a disscusion about anything. What many people complain about is that Netfilx advertises unlimited rentals, but then delays shipment. And to say that unlimited only means what Netflix wants it to mean becasue the FTC says so doesn't really fix the problem. Imagine going to an all you can eat restaurant and the buffet line suddenly closes just as you are going to get seconds. It then reopens 20 minutes later after you have already had dessert. Would you be satisfied if the owner told you that the FTC says that All You Can Eat only means what he wants it to mean? That he can only make a profit if people don't eat very much?
    Why all the name calling? Why would anyone lie about their Netflix experience, good or bad? I suppose they could work for Walmart or BB, but I doubt it.
    As I have said before, the delays have nothing to do with the post office. For almost a year, I have seen my disks arrive at Netflix, they return one immediatly, and the others wait a day or two no matter what the title is, or availability. Again, I do not plan to change at this point, because of their selection and website.

  17. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    not that i can use netflix - but has anyone actually asked them about these "delays" ? And did they have a response ?
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)

  18. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BJ_M
    not that i can use netflix - but has anyone actually asked them about these "delays" ? And did they have a response ?
    Don't be daft
    If in doubt, Google it.

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    not that i can use netflix - but has anyone actually asked them about these "delays" ? And did they have a response ?
    That would make too much sense.

    Actually, Netflix has a nice feature (as most of the online rental places do) that you can report a shipping problem and they will send out the next title in your queue immediately. I used to use this when it took 3-4 days to get my rentals (I was an early adopter of Netflix). I could just report the rentals I just sent back as delayed in the mail and netflix would then send out my next rentals without waiting for my returns. Fortunately, they put a distribution center in Harrisburg, PA and now I get new movies every 2 days.

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    There is a warning that if you use this feature too often, they will put a hold on your account. Also, you can not use this feature until the disk is 7 days late.

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    Originally Posted by BJ_M
    not that i can use netflix - but has anyone actually asked them about these "delays" ? And did they have a response ?
    Of course not. Because any actual fact-checking would invalidate the conspiracy theory.

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    Originally Posted by winifreid
    The whole idea of a forum is to inform others of one's experience. If someone writes in and says vdub does a bad job of converting to xvid, no one (hopefully) would just say, "Then don't use it". There wouldn't ever be a disscusion about anything.
    Agreed.

    What many people complain about is that Netfilx advertises unlimited rentals, but then delays shipment.
    And I STILL haven't seen any proof that they do this on a systemic basis. With all the so-called "proof" out there, I see a relatively few people who have had delays - and I have personal experience (as well as a bunch of friends' experiences) that shows otherwise. I'm the first to say "stick it to 'em" when a company misbehaves, but I have yet to see any proof that they are guilty of anything other than the occasional piece of poor management.

    And remember what I said before - 100 disgruntled users out of 100,000 satisfied is one-tenth of one percent.

    And to say that unlimited only means what Netflix wants it to mean
    No, it means "what the average person could REASONABLY expect to be 'unlimited'". There's a big difference.

    becasue the FTC says so doesn't really fix the problem. Imagine going to an all you can eat restaurant and the buffet line suddenly closes just as you are going to get seconds. It then reopens 20 minutes later after you have already had dessert. Would you be satisfied if the owner told you that the FTC says that All You Can Eat only means what he wants it to mean? That he can only make a profit if people don't eat very much?
    Actually this happens all the time. Someone earlier in the thread talked about all-you-can-eat seafood promotions. They purposely limit the amount of the expensive seafood available. You can only get little tiny servings of lobster, and only one serving per pass. Why? Because they would go out of business otherwise! I'm not saying Netflix even does this, but that it DOES happen and IS legal. "Unlimited" doesn't REALLY mean unlimited, it never has! I don't know where people ever got the idea that it did! If a family of 500-lb. freaks shows up at Applebees, you can BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR that the "all-you-can-eat riblets special" has a 5-plate limit.

    Why all the name calling? Why would anyone lie about their Netflix experience, good or bad? I suppose they could work for Walmart or BB, but I doubt it.
    Defamation is the Internet game. People love to bash. So even if they just have one-week turnarounds because of where they live, people love to jump on the bandwagon and say "yeah Netflix delayed my shipments!"

    As I have said before, the delays have nothing to do with the post office. For almost a year, I have seen my disks arrive at Netflix, they return one immediatly, and the others wait a day or two no matter what the title is, or availability. Again, I do not plan to change at this point, because of their selection and website.
    And I say that this could still be shipping delays, or organizational delays. You have to remember that SOMEONE has to go get these discs. That someone is underpaid, overworked, and disgruntled. Their ONLY job is to go back and forth to the post office all day collecting discs. Sometimes they miss stuff. All the discs get tossed into a big bin, and then scanned back in. Sometimes your discs don't all go in together.

    My shipments from Netflix get mixed up, too. I seldom get all 3 discs on the same day. But I get them within a couple days of each other. I fail to see how this amounts to intentional misconduct! If I can get 15 movies a month for $20, that's $1.33 a movie. Compare that with $5 per at Blockbuster and it's a no-brainer! Even 10 movies a month is only $2 apiece! I'm still making out, no question.

    Again, I think that the problem is that people go in with misconceptions. They think they're really going to get 20+ movies a month out of the deal, when it just isn't possible to pull that off under the current structure.

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    What happens frequently with me is that I will return 4 flics on Monday, they show that they are received on Wednesday. They will ship 2 from my queue on that day, which I receive Friday. They will then ship 2 more the following day, which I receive on Monday or Saturday. All of the disks in my queue are marked available now and are all old releases.

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    I just signed up with Netflix yesterday for 3-out plan $18/month. They just shipped me three movies today. Let's wait and see how it goes. If I'm not satisfied, Blockbuster is my next stop. Do you guys know where is the nearest Netflix distributor to western New York?

    Thanks
    vcdlover

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    Have they already lowered their prices? It doesn't indicate anything on my account. It still says $21.99 for the 3 plan. Maybe the lower price is just for new customers.

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    Originally Posted by winifreid
    Have they already lowered their prices? It doesn't indicate anything on my account. It still says $21.99 for the 3 plan. Maybe the lower price is just for new customers.
    It said right on the website, $17.99.


    vcdlover

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    Actually, I checked it out. Effective November 1st, they will dropping the prices for all members.

  28. Member Bronx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smearbrick1
    Actually, I checked it out. Effective November 1st, they will dropping the prices for all members.
    I just got off the phone with them, they told me the same and that all customers would be notified via e-mail.
    When it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!!

  29. "Anyway to get back to my point, All of these companies are limited by the cost of stamps $.37 x 2 for a round trip, 12 out per mo = $8.88; 15 per mo = $ 11.10. Doesn't leave much money left for any of them to hire employees or buy DVD'S. "





    More psuedo information from the loyalists.

    High volume mailers negotiate lower rates and special treatment from the post office. Netflix probably pays in the range of $.23 - $.27 per disk. And the post office agreed to not cancel their mail so as to reduce breakage. I worked for the post office for 12 years and ALL first class mail was required to be cancelled, no exceptions, until Netflix. Large mailers and their lobbyists wield enormous influence over general postal pricing and policy and then get special deals as well.

    I subscribe to Netflix and on the whole think they do a great job. But there have been times when I am was absolutely sure that they were deliberately delaying shipping disks to me. Many others have experienced the same and reported it here, ony to be attacked or their experience ridiculed by an assortment of pompous know-it-alls, theoretical fantasists, and Netflix loyalists/shareholders/employees, and maybe a few at large MBA's as well.

  30. Member Bronx's Avatar
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    When I posted the news on this thread I was very curious on how people would react. It is all very interesting the defenders, the bashers of Netflix and you have some people who are neutral.

    Anyhow,

    What I am wondering is how do you think Amazon.com would do in the online dvd rental service.
    When it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!!




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