Short review of the PV231 VCD capture card

[Anonymous65]

http://steve.kittelsen.com/pv231/
(I will add missing links soon)

[ylong]

Thanks a lot Steve. We are waiting for all those files for Registry settings.
I am waiting for my PV233 to be delivered to my door today. I am wondering if the setting also works for PV233?

[EricB]

Where do you buy these, and how does the output compare to using a good software encoder?

[Anonymous65]

I'll do my best to post the files tonight. I'm just running out of time... The last link on the review page is a link to a US computer store that sells both the PV231 and PV233. Registry should be close if not the same for both models.

[ylong]

Thanx Steve, I went to your Web site and downloaded the reg files.
I got my pv233 and tried it a little bit. The quality is not that impressive though. There are a lot of small blocks at fast motion. I have not had a chance to change the registry yet.
My question is: does the speed of hard drive have a big impact on the quality? I remember someone posted at topic "Mpegator vs MG100 vs PV231 ???" ( https://www.videohelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=64969&forum=2&start=0 ) that after he changed a new hard drive, the quality boosted a lot. Is that true?

[Anonymous65]

Please all, remember that you will ALWAYS get blocks on VCD's in high action video. Not even Tmpeg can remove all blocks in video at VCD bit rates.
The registry changes the GOP to twice that of normal GOP lenght, and that cuts the blockiness in half on high action video. HOWEVER, it will not remove all blocks at VCD bit rates. To remove "all" blocks you need a bit rate of 2.5 Mb/sec or higher, more than twice that of standard VCD.

[Anonymous65]

Hard drive speed will have no effect of video capture quality where the compression is done in hardware, unless you have such a slow hard drive that it cannot keep up with a stream of 1.5Mbits/sec. In that case, you will not even be able to play it back correctly. Normal ATA33 IDE hard drives can do 24Mbits/sec, and a fast ATA100 can do 240Mbits/sec (30MB/sec). I'm not saying your system can do these speeds, but on my system I can get this performance.

[ylong]

Sorry, Steve. I am so naive on this.
I noticed small blocks from my computer monitor and I know that a monitor has much higher resolution than a TV set. I hope that when I play the VCD to a TV, the small blocks will not as noticeable as on a monitor.
PV233 allows me to set display mode to Primary or Overlay. It looks like to me that when I uses Primary mode, the captured images are clearer. But I am not sure. What is your experience?

[Anonymous65]

Yes, a PC monitor has much higher resolution than a TV monitor. Also, a TV set has higher contrast, so video on a PC monitor often looks dark and flat.
Overlay is the best mode to use because the CPU is not doing the work to display the TV image. In overlay mode, the video data is sent directly over the PCI bus to the video card for display, and no CPU power is needed to process the data. This leaves the CPU free for other tasks.

[Anonymous65]

I just added a high motion video test frames, and the PV231 performs just as good here as during static video. My testing has showed that the PV231 and TmpegEnc are "identical" in VCD performance.
http://steve.kittelsen.com/pv231/

[SHS]

skittelsen MPEG1 recording clip I just saw is soild, 98% of where clean frames on each frame under Womble Multimedia MPEG2VCR I give this card A- oh let make that A or 9 all way around.
I have agree with you skittelsen on the blockiness part.

[Anonymous65]

Now we just need a beefed up capture software, with more options, and that can change the registry settings from regular menus. There should be a development kit (SDK) for this Winbond chip. So if there are any savy software programmers out there, it could be a nice project. I have talked to one person that might make a registry modification application for this card.

[ylong]

SHS, Is there a card you may grade it to straight A or 10?
Just wondering.
Steve, Another question about manipulate all those settings. Will the settings of brightness, contrast, saturation, hue impact the record quality?

[Anonymous65]

The setting of brightness is for the correct black level, and contrast is for the correct white level. Color is for correct saturation and hue.
As far as compression artifacs go, no it will have much effect, unless you turn down the contrast so the picture is all grey and without any details, or make the colors bleed at max settings. This will make it harder or easier to compress, but under normal conditions, you want your blacks to be black, and whites to be white.
The default factory settings are wrong with the PV231. The correct settings are -10 for brightness, 65 for contrast, 70 for color, and 0 for hue. This will give very close to correct video levels for NTSC at 1Vp-p composite input. I wish there was a histogram feature in the capture application for setting the levels. However, you can capture color bars, and check the levels in Tmpeg or virtualdub (or even Paintshop if you use the snapshot feature to capture frames with the PV231) Getting correct levels are critical for correct playback on a DVD player and TV set.

[SHS]

See if you can find.
http://www.bernclare.com/mpegprod.htm

[SHS]

ylong do you give up?.
OH I even give you a clue to there demo MPEG clip but it not from that site.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-11-28 23:19:10 ]</font>

[Anonymous65]

????

[SHS]

Optibase MOVIEMAKER
http://www.optibase.com/html/support/video_clips.html

[Anonymous65]

The Optibase doesn't even come close to the quality of the PV231. The Optibase and the Mpegator are very expensive and based on old technology, and cannot compete with the new high performance and cheap tailored chips. On the web site the Mpegator is selling for $1000, while a $85 PV231 makes a lot better video!

[PAPACHIK]

Ylong and All ..

I was the one that add a video hard disk and achieved better quality VCD. As explained by Skittelsen and I agreed that extra h/disk will not improved image quality. But one thing I recalled that I burn the VCD at slower speed ( 2X )
At least for me, burn with Nero at slow speed improved quality.

Skittelsen..
To be honest I was very disappointed and felt cheated and almost trash this card untill the day I decided to do some upgrade and final test. But now with a better VCD quality I
achieved, coupled with your research and writeup on this PV231 card, I'm beginning to love and will keep this card.

Thanks Skittelsen for your initiative and effort.

Regards ..papachik

[Morbid]

Thanks for the info on this card skittelsen. You have no idea the headaches I have went through trying to find a good solution. I just purchased mine online! I purchased the PV233. I assume the reg settings are the same for both cards? Also Im using Windows 2000. Will those settings be compatible with my OS? Thanks!

[Arepiv]

skittelsen,

I am surprised by your statement on VCD blockiness. I have several James Bond VCDs (the Philips collection for CDI) and couldn't find any scene with blocks, even in quick motion parts !

They must have used a very performant encoding technique to do that. Any idea how they did it?

Arepiv

[Anonymous65]

I have not tried the PV233, so I can't speak on how it works or what its performance is. But, it does have the same mpeg compression components and core capture software. My guess is that the registry have more key entries than the PV231? If someone with the PV233 could post a copy of the registry entries, it would be easy to see if they match.

I also have several commercial VCD's. Some has bad quality, and a few has stunning quality. This is what caused me to go on this "quest" to find out how to make such a good VCD. The ultimate way of making a VCD file would be to have a high quality digital copy of the video, like ripping a DVD. The frame number will most likely be 24 frames per second, not 30, so you're gaining more bits per second for the 24 frames. Also, by using special filters to smooth action (even available in Tmpeg - temporal filter) you limit sharp changes from frame to frame. A combination of all of the above will make VCD's that are basically block free, however, if you go through a move frame by frame, you will see square blocks from time to time. A DVD rip done by the right software should be able to make close to these commercially made VCD's. However, I don't rip DVD's, I transfer VHS video tape and record off-air video, so the quality will not be as good as a commercially made VCD.

[SHS]

skittelsen what mean Optibase doesn't even come close to the quality of the PV231 didn't you down the 10MB MPEG clip?.
No what I'am trying say is very expensive vs winbond non expensive board do damm ner as good as HighEnd card what it mean it gose to show what they can do if put they mind to it and make it low cost.

[Anonymous65]

Yes, I downloaded the video clip, and was not impressed. I have also downloaded every other clip I have found to check quality. And yes, you're right, the cheap stuff is getting quite good...

[glinckens]

Skittelsen you are absolutely right about this card.

I have the Trueblue Action, which is a PV-231. When capturing from a good source like DVD or DV, the quality is always as good as Tmpgenc. High motion scenes are also very good.
Only when capturing from VHS or a Hi8 home video, I get some blocks when the camera is panning. Any idea how to fix this?

Here's a tip: when capturing very, very high motion video, set the GOP structure to IBBB it gives NO blocks at all!

Dutch readers: you can buy this card from http://www.mediaforte.nl for Fl 253,-

[ylong]

SHS, I downloaded the clip from optibase and I would say I have the same feeling as Steve has. Not a killer.
Steve, I will post the reigstry for my PV233 when I get back home tonight. I did not find any different entries when I backed up my old reg with yours. And even the .ini file has the same wrong settings. If you want, I can a post the .ini file also.
But you know I always come up with some questions. This time:
EasyCD Creator5 accepts the result MPEG file but if I use MyFlix to cut off the commercials, EZCD won't take it. I even tried the Ulead 4 that come with the card, no help.
Could you recommend a set of tools that will work?
I post this here because I trust you as an expert. Thanks.

[Trystero]

I like all of the info so far on the PV231 and PV233,and I'm seriously considering getting the PV233, but I'm wondering about the software used.
Is the software (Tuner, Capture and Scheduling) included with the card usable/good? Is it possible to use any software other than the Included software to view TV, Capture MPEG, or do Recording Scheduling? If so, what software?
I heard it mentioned that ProVideo's software that came with the PV233 was Win2K compatible, so is it safe to assume that the software works with WinXP? Has anybody used the PV233 with XP?

[ylong]

I don't have WinXP but I am using Win2K and it(PV233) works fine. I am just using the software that comes with the card and it has TV, Capture and Scheduling capture all in one. You may set up as many schedule items but those schedules can not repeat themself weekly. You have to set up the schedule for each certain day.
They also offer ULead 4 with the card but I don't know how to utilize it.
Other softwares, Wait for skittelsen's answer.

[ylong]

The error message I got from EZCD is that "system clock reference" is not correct. Anybody know what does it mean and how can I fix it?