DVDr Disc archiving and storage

[CHARM]

After buying two 250 gig drives and a 200 gig external when I since I started this whole dvdr thing I have finally ran out of room and have been forced to backup/archive the movies.

At this point I have chosen to backup the rar version. I feel it is a safer burn than a one file that is 4.4 gigs. I decided to store them in paper sleeves standing upright in a shoebox. Now the reason I decided to use paper sleeves is that they dont stress the disc
(I have read that some jewel cases and dvd cases and damage a disc, cant remeber the details)

and the other obvious reason is that they take up less space, something i will appreciate when i get into the hundreds, and they are damn cheap.
(I pay 2$/100 on supermedia.com, you can get slim colored cd jewel at sams for 11$/100)

I was using Vertabatim 4x(MCC) R- and I just switched to Taiyo Yuden 8x (TYG02)R- thermals, the thermals have nothing on the write side, just clear plastic (only .56/disc at supermedia).

any other advice or observations are very appreicated

[steve2713]

What do you mean by 'backup the rar version'? You are burning DVD backups as .RAR files, or your own home videos? I'm confused as to why you are not just burning as DVD videos...

Also, do you have a direct link to the paper sleeves that you are buying at $2 per 100? The cheapest I've seen them is $3 per 100. Thanks

[HyperYagami]

At this point I have chosen to backup the rar version. I feel it is a safer burn than a one file that is 4.4 gigs.

how big is each of those RAR? are they ususally like 50,000,000 bytes each?

[CHARM]

well I pretty much said what I meant. I burn the original .rar files as a UDF format (same as ISO) which is data. yes you are right I could have just done it as a dvd, they are practicaly the same. (Am I right or wrong?) and it is pretty silly I am so paranoid I would rather do it this way, but it is just the way I do things. But good point.

the disc sleeves I get are at supermediastore.com , you get them for 2$ as a combo with any 100 pack of Prodisc. They are having a sale on 100 packs / paper sleeve combos at 10% off, which is pretty good after such a low price. For example 8x inkjet printable is 39$ Silver Matte 4x is 31$ you can check out the rest. I suggest you get at least 200-400 to get a decent shipping deal.

[CHARM]

how big is each of those RAR? are they ususally like 50,000,000 bytes each?

yes typical dvd rar, sometimes(rarely) bigger or smaller. My common sense says I can achieve more accuracy. I delete the par files except for the first, and RAR has some error correction built in.

[steve2713]

SupermediaSTORE.com - now I get it. You said supermedia.com in your first post, and that threw me off - led me to all kinds of stuff. As for the RAR files, I think I understand what you are doing now. Am I correct here - you are spanning DVD movies onto more than one disc, in particular when the DVD is larger than a single layer disc - If you are backing up larger than single layer DVDs, I can see the logic in this. If you are backing up Single Layer discs using RAR, I just don't see what the extra effort is for, especially considering the quality of media that you are using - from everything that I've read about TY media, I think for anyone to get a greater than 1 out of 100 rate of discs with errors would even be unlikely. I'm not bashing you by any means, I'm just trying to understand what you are up to. I also have about 250gb of larger-than-single layer DVD's backed up on HDs. I may be interested in doing this as well with Dual Layer backups, is there any guide or information that you could point me to regarding backing up DVD's, in particular, this way? Thanks

[CHARM]

no these are all single layer backups. I guess my final answer as to why I am backing up the rar is that it is the original format I got, and it is broken up. ok lets move on from this.

now to your hardrive and Dual Layer. I am so pissed with Dual Layer, I keep telling guys who take out extras and blah blah to keep compresion down, that when Dual Layer hits 1 dollar almost all these movie will be released and the "fun will start all over" so what I am doing is kind of pointless.

steve, I would advise you not to backup onto dual layer. I am asuming you have 30 movies on your 250, at 10$ a ritek DL (sprmediastr.com) you are looking at 300. that is 2 SATA 250 drives. After starting DVD I bought an aditional 250,250,200 in addition to a 37,120,200 all in the same system, all the ones that have 2's in the beginning are dedicated to dvds. I recomend getting retail at compusa when they have a good deal, try to stay around 50 cents a gig, DL is 1.10 a gig

[HyperYagami]

no these are all single layer backups. I guess my final answer as to why I am backing up the rar is that it is the original format I got, and it is broken up. ok lets move on from this.

so you downloaded those movie RARs off the internet (50,000,000 bytes each is the standard scene-format), i.e., you aren't making backups off the originals that you own?

[babyboo]

If you prefer Vinyl or Poly sleeves you can get them as low as .03 at http://www.univenture.com/acatalog/closeoutssleeves.html

[CHARM]

HyperYagami: Yes I get my scene dvds, test the rars, then pack them onto another drive, where I burn a test RW then I burn copies on R- for me and my friends. Then I burn the Rar files and first Par onto taiyo yuden. Like I said though, this is kinda stupid since DL could be cheap in 6 months, sooner or later (14months ago discs where 1$ min)


babyboo: Thanks for that link. do you think the paper ones might be bad for archiving?
I am having flashbacks from my childhood now archiving comic books, I remember the sleeves had to be this standard plastic with no paperboard insert, because the acids would destroy the comic. Now I know that DvdR's are made from strong polycarbonates so I am not totally crazy just understand that even though I am only 25 I have been into media since I was a child (8 or so) and I watched the advent of digital media (aka the CD, then the DVD) and one of the most attractive features was their longevity, 100+ years enough for my grandchildren's children. then as I got older I realized these media companies had concocted a conspiracy to make this media as fragile as possible. Instead of adopting early ideas and versions of cartridge casing (think Mini-disc, early CDROM's, and DVD-RAM) had we adopted this scratched unreadable discs would have been reduced 95% (my number).

so why am I rambling about this, well I would have been happy to pay more for a cartridge system. I definately wouldnt have cdrs littered all over my house(I am much better with the dvds

[CHARM]

I just don't see what the extra effort is for, especially considering the quality of media that you are using - from everything that I've read about TY media, I think for anyone to get a greater than 1 out of 100 rate of discs with errors would even be unlikely.

What do you define by errors and what program, I using DVDinfoPro and am getting several red blocks

dvdinfopro does a crc check

[steve2713]

What do you define by errors and what program, I using DVDinfoPro and am getting several red blocks

Uhm, something is definitely wrong with your setup then... I've burned over 300 discs, and the majority of it is 'lowly' CMC media, and I have yet to have a SINGLE CMC disc with even ONE read error as you mention. Some of my cheaper media has high PI/PO levels, but I have no trouble playing the discs in standalone players, as well as having no trouble copying the disc with ZERO errors. If I burn a disc with EVEN ONE read error, I consider it a coaster and burn another disc. I've only had problems with this on VERY cheap media, you should basically NEVER have read errors with the media you are using. In fact, the only 'good' media I've ever used is a few Ritek and a few TDK media codes. The majority of my discs are on CMC or Sonic MUST001 media, and I have had only 1 disc out of 50 with the extremely cheap Sonic media get a read error, and I believe that was my fault.

Also, what brand of drives do you have? In any case, you should not test your discs using DVDInfoPro's read error test - it is probably the least telling of any test you can do on your media. If you have a LiteOn drive, you should be doing PI/PO tests on your media. If you don't have a LiteOn drive, I suggest that you use the speed, or transfer rate test in Nero CDSpeed. Both of those tests will tell you if you have read errors, but they will also be more descriptive in burning quality in addition to simply saying 'readable or unreadable' (especially the PI/PO tests). If you have to use the transfer rate tests, a good burn will typically have a very smooth transfer rate curve with little or no dips in read speed. I've noticed that discs that have very high PI/PO numbers near the end of the discs will have shaky transfer rate speeds near the end of the discs.

P.S. - did you get my PM?

[CHARM]

I have LG 4082 writer, and a sony dvd rom. I am now noticing that the LG is not showing errors. I dont know what is wrong with the sony I just did a firmware update on the LG and never on the sony, got my LG in july. I bought a Lite-On back in december, it was the first time a DVD writer hit 100$ in retail, it sat on the floor unopened for a week or two mainly because it was so new to me, and when I found out 8x was out in aweek or 2, I returned it. I also thought Lite-on was generic, at the time I knew nothing about manufacturing of media or drives.

I am pretty suprised Lite-on has so much support, It seems to be the only one you can hack. I havent heard anything of the LG. I dont understand by PIF testing is limited to their drives, I cant decide which 16x I will go with, either LG, Pioneer, Lite-on, or a Lacie (love that PorcheDesign case) Ill get the lacie if it has lite-on inside

also with nero dvd speed will notify me if their is an error, remember I do the nero data verification, I cant get anyone to tell me if they what that is looking for, I am sure they are looking for the data to match the data on th hardrive.

so with nero speed I have a horizontal yellow line a bit under 4x The green line is diagnol going from 3.4 to 8.25 there is a SLIGHT curve, but nothing erratic.

thanks

[steve2713]

Sounds like your media might not actually have errors on them, but rather a problem with your testing equipment and/or testing methods. Just from your description of your Nero CDSpeed test, it sounds like at least that particular disc is fine, as 'bad' dics will have jagged and erratic lines in the last GB or so, or will fail altogether and give you a read error, which will stop the test right at that spot (The faster your transfer rate tests are made, the greater chance you will have of having a poor looking test, generally speaking - My NEC burner will have smoother looking transfer rate tests than my LiteOn 163 DVD-ROM because the NEC reads slower, even though the LiteOn is supposedly better at reading bad discs).

LiteOn actually makes great stuff, their CD burners and DVD-ROMs I'm a fan of in particular. As far as 'hacking' DVD burners is concerned, just about every brand of burner has possibilities to be 'hacked'. People have different preferences, but I'd personally suggest that your next burner be a NEC, and maybe buy a LiteOn 166 DVD-ROM (for testing media and ripping discs). A lot of people, myself included, prefer NEC over the other brands because A) they are very affordable, and B) they have great burning quality, even with cheaper media. Most other brands, LiteOn included, can be picky about the media used - my NEC 1300 does a good job with even the crappiest media I've put in it. NEC has a lot of users, and there are alot of firmware updates available for all of their drives.

Firmware and 'hack' info
http://forum.rpc1.org/portal.php

NEC 3500A (16x DVD+R, 16x DVD-R, DVD+R DL)
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=27-152-032&DEPA=1

[ice-berg]

I decided to store them in paper sleeves standing upright in a shoebox. Now the reason I decided to use paper sleeves is that they dont stress the disc
(I have read that some jewel cases and dvd cases and damage a disc, cant remeber the details)

and the other obvious reason is that they take up less space, something i will appreciate when i get into the hundreds, and they are damn cheap.
(I pay 2$/100 on supermedia.com, you can get slim colored cd jewel at sams for 11$/100)


any other advice or observations are very appreicated

i havent heard of jewel cases damaging the disc in any sort. hell these cheap paper sleeves might be doing more damage than you think. plain paper sleeves have a habit after some time of putting small scratches on the disc (especially if they are cheap stuff). if your really concerned about the disc being protected and want paper sleeves i would go with tyvek paper sleeves. a little more expensive than your usual sleeves but you dont have to worry about paper scratches.