Newbe: burn as VCD vs MPEG as data file?

[Andrew Hall]

This is a bit of a newbe question: why not work with the MPEG as a data file rather than burn as a specialist VCD.

Having read the FAQ it seems the answer is, burn as VCD allows 15% more data and you can perhaps organise with tracks as with DVD.

But:

Does a typical computer CD drive process high bit rate MPEG (XVCD or XSVCD) faster or easier in XVCD format (by which I mean having burned using Nero or similar), or as the same high bit-rate MPEG as data?

I have two closely related things I am trying to achieve. Basically I want to create high quality video (ex Mini DV)for running on computers (not interested in TV display) in a form that is easily transferred (using CD ROM) between moderately up to date computers.

Option one is to play this MPEG video straight from the CD (whether it is a data CD or properly formatted as a XVCD).

Option two is to copy the CD to the hard drive and play it from there. (Are there any problems playing the data contained on a properly burned and formatted XVCD from a hard drive?)

So my primary objectives are: create high quality MPEG, play in best format and from best source (HD vs CD player) to support high quality.

I should perhaps add that I have been using HTML (with lots of javascript) files to organise and control my video, as well as to display the near full page video. This I think gives me even more power to offer a wider range of control and experience to viewers than does the control from a standard DVD.

Final question, I am not clear why it seems only Nero does XVCD and XSVCD if the only issue is the same format approach as ordinary SVCD.

Thanks, and this overall site gets my vote for the best information site I have come across on the web.

Andrew

[retardid130]

ok, here's my few words of wisdom,
people burn to vcd and svcd to plan on tv's, making the video nstc or pal interlaced,
interlaced mpegs don't play as well as progressive one's(1:1 VGA) on computer screen's,
and as for hd vs cd, go with cd I say,
if your computer is doing or processing anything while the video is playing, playback could be delayed,
when playing and mpeg from a cd, as long as you have a fast cd reader, you should be fine
hoped that helped a little

[retardid130]

oh and I almost forgot, if you plan to view the video from a webpage make sure the video and the page are on the same sourse,in other words
video on cd then webpage on cd also, video on hd then webpage in same directory,

[ksandbergfl]

I have an Apex 550 DVD player.

Just the other day, on a whim, I stuck my computer CD with 16 files (1.15Mb/s MPG's) into the Apex... and it plays!

You get a DOS-like menu (the same menu that you get when you put a CD with MP3's into the Apex). You can scroll thru the files to select the one you want.

And guess what? The MPG1's play BETTER than they do when you make a VCD with them. Less pixelization and blockiness.
But, you do not have zoom/FF/RW capability, as when you play a VCD.

I'm not sure why - I think there is additional CPU overhead to enable zoom/FF/RW features, which affects playback. Either that, or perhaps NERO does something to the MPG1 files when it puts the VCD image together?

Anyway -- if you have an Apex 550 DVD player -- you can play your computer CD's on your TV as well.

I am no longer going to burn any compliant VCD's. I am only going to burn regular data CD's... saves me the effort of making two disc images (one VCD, one for my computer).

[Andrew Hall]

Thanks for the replies, they were very helpful. In playing CD's on the DVD there is still of course the problem that TV colour is very different, and not as good, as computer monitor color (RGB) - which is one of the reasons I am opting for targetting computer use only.

Any further suggestions for what a mid-range PC (say PIII 600 MHz, 128 Mb RAM) shouyld be able to cope with in bit rates for MPEG from the Hard drive and also from a CD drive.

regards

Andrew

[ksandbergfl]

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Any further suggestions for what a mid-range PC (say PIII 600 MHz, 128 Mb RAM) shouyld be able to cope with in bit rates for MPEG from the Hard drive and also from a CD drive.

regards

Andrew
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FYI, the VCD standard was developed several years ago, based on the computer technology that was available at the time.

A 1.15Mb/s MPEG1 (VCD standard) will play just fine on a 486DX4-100 machine, with a x4 CD player. I know, because I have a 486DX4-100 with 24MB RAM running at home, and my VCD's play on it OK... not full-screen, mind you, but they play.


My other computer, a 450MHz AMD K6-2 with 128MB RAM, plays full-screen (I have a 17" monitor) VCD's really good... looks as good as television. I have some MPEG1's at 3Mb/s, they play OK as well.

For playback, I think the video card has more to do with the quality than anything else. I wouldn't worry so much about the CPU/RAM, but I'd say get the best video card you can afford.

Unless you're doing lots of ripping/encoding, then get the fastest CPU and motherboard you can afford too.

[Hateslife]

While MPEG formats are a good idea if you're more interested in quality than compression ratios, standard VCD is definitely NOT the format you're looking for. When not displayed on a TV, it's crap. SVCD is probably not either.

Extended versions are pointless, for the following reason.

The reason to use VCD and SVCD is to comply with standards. When I burn a compliant SVCD, I know that it's fairly easy to find a DVD or SVCD player that will play it, regardless of where I am. The same is not true of computer players... many PC DVD software dooflitchits won't take a SVCD. Also, the video goes through some kind of conversion when a VCD is authored. While SVCD video files are not converted, you cannot play the file straight off the cd without SVCD/DVD playing software, because the ISO file system on the CD is more a dummy than anything else. You must copy it off first.

When it comes down to it, VCD and SVCD are designed with TV's in mind. They don't even have square pixels.

Of course, the advantages to a standard are many. MPEG formats and VCD/SVCD are going to stick around for at least another ten or twenty years. Just as one can still find a record or cassette player without much trouble, MPEG's on cd will still be useful many years hence. In contrast, divx will be the eight-track of formats: Useful for one thing, but too hopelessly crippled to last.

[Andrew Hall]

Wow, Hateslife, what a name, do you really? Thanks for the feedback. What I am looking to use is something along the lines of MPEG 1 or 2 (not sure which, ! is more universal in the PC woprld I guess, how much better is 2) 720 x 576 pixels and somewhere between 1.5 - 5 Mb/sec. What is your suggestion?

Andrew

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On 2001-11-27 15:08:13, Hateslife wrote:
While MPEG formats are a good idea if you're more interested in quality than compression ratios, standard VCD is definitely NOT the format you're looking for. When not displayed on a TV, it's crap. SVCD is probably not either.

Extended versions are pointless, for the following reason.

The reason to use VCD and SVCD is to comply with standards. When I burn a compliant SVCD, I know that it's fairly easy to find a DVD or SVCD player that will play it, regardless of where I am. The same is not true of computer players... many PC DVD software dooflitchits won't take a SVCD. Also, the video goes through some kind of conversion when a VCD is authored. While SVCD video files are not converted, you cannot play the file straight off the cd without SVCD/DVD playing software, because the ISO file system on the CD is more a dummy than anything else. You must copy it off first.

When it comes down to it, VCD and SVCD are designed with TV's in mind. They don't even have square pixels.

Of course, the advantages to a standard are many. MPEG formats and VCD/SVCD are going to stick around for at least another ten or twenty years. Just as one can still find a record or cassette player without much trouble, MPEG's on cd will still be useful many years hence. In contrast, divx will be the eight-track of formats: Useful for one thing, but too hopelessly crippled to last.
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[ksandbergfl]

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On 2001-11-27 21:34:26, Andrew Hall wrote:
What I am looking to use is something along the lines of MPEG 1 or 2 (not sure which, ! </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Every computer with the first version of Win95 onward comes with a MPEG1 decoder. To date, the only way to get an MPEG2 decoder on your PC is to download one yourself, or buy some additional software/hardware that comes with one. WinXP might come with a MPEG2 decoder, but I haven't checked yet.

If you're gonna be sending dozens of CD's to people, and you want them to be able to watch your videos on a PC with no hassles --- MPEG1 is the only way to go.

My wife and I had a baby a few months ago. Every week I capture my new camcorder videos into my computer at 2Mb/s MPEG1 (using a Dazzle USB). When I get up to 600MB worth of MPG's, I simply burn them to a CD. I also make a simple AUTORUN.INF and START.HTM file for the CD. The AUTORUN.INF starts Internet Explorer and loads the START.HTM page. The START.HTM page has a nice JPG photo (also copied to the CD, of course), and links to all the MPG1 files on the CD. The user just has to click on a link and the video plays.

I tested my CD's on everything I could get my hands on, from a 486DX4-100 witn Win95 to my 1.6GHz with Win2000 at work.... and as long as IE5 is installed, the CD always works. Every version of Windows since Win95 comes with an MPG1 decoder.

I make 6-10 copies of the CD for friends/family, and mail them off. I even print my own CD cases using card stock paper. It only costs $.34 to mail (one US postage stamp).