how about a relevant list that newbies can use

[maddogg]

Hey guys,
I'm new to this x/vcd thing and after scanning the forums for several days I was struck with a thought; it seems to me that there are a lot of dvd players out there that claim to play various formats and they actually have trouble with those formats or how they were encoded, or burned, or whatever....
So here's my suggestion, how about a list of dvd players capabilities and what encoding/authoring/burning programs that work best with them....might help to cut down on the reposted problems I see on this forum
Just a thought....

[redwudz]

Most of that is already there in the DVD Player section. As far as Encoding, Authoring, Burning, there are too many variables involved.

The settings used in those operations are more important than the operations themselves for compatibility.

For example, TMPGEnc encoder output should be just as compatible (With similar settings) to just about any other encoder out there. The same is likely to be true with XVID or DIVX.

Also when you ask what is 'best', you are more likely to get opinion than facts. Just my opinion.

[Defcon9]

Hello Maddogg

what kind of net synch-up software are you using? Does the DVD player have a switch on the back allowing you to change settings? I bet it does.

the key, I find, is to eject the VCD before it is finished finalizing. Once it is 100% complete, but the disc appears to still be writing, hit the eject key and grab your disc. It is the finalizing that messes stuff up.

let me know how it works for you
defcon9

[maddogg]

thanks for the tip defcon9, but my dvdplayer is a crappy rca drc 220, doesn't matter how I encode it it will always freeze unless it's a dvd

[Defcon9]

so when you burn an actual DVD, it works? It plays, you can pause the cartoon, etc?

If you look at a DVD, you will notice that it appears radically different from a CD, which you use to make a VCD. A CD has a spot near the center that identifies it as a CD (or VCD) If you cover this spot, or convince your DVD player to ignore it (using software run via an Ethernet cable to your home theatre), you can fool your DVD player into thinking it is reading a DVD instead of a VCD.

Check the settings on your RCA... I suspect there is a software upgrade.

Peace out!
Defcon9

[maddogg]

Thanx again defcon9, but I've been all over the net and unless I'm mistaken there is no firmware upgrades for my model dvd player....gonna have to bite the bullet and get a new one, I guess

[Defcon9]

when all else fails,

Pray to Saint Erasmus.

Have you been bathed in the love of our Saviour, Jesus Christ?

Jesus loves you, Maddogg. He does. He LOVES you, and perhaps it is your filthy pornography that is offending Him.

Make good with the Lord, and your DVD player will function, Maddogg.

peace out
defcon9

[Defcon9]

fag

[maddogg]

you are the one praying to st erasmus, and I'm a fag?!?!?!
Whatever

[Defcon9]

I mean, come on, can I have a fag, Maddogg? (aka, a cigarette?)

I wasn't disparaging you with a negative remark.

You queer.

[Defcon9]

When spreads thy cloak of shimm'ring white,
At Winter's stern command,
Thro' shortened day and starlit night,
We love thee, frozen land,
We love thee, we love thee,
We love thee, frozen land.

When blinding storm gusts fret thy shore,
And wild waves lash thy strand,
Thro' sprindrift swirl and tempest roar,
We love thee, wind-swept land,
We love thee, we love thee,
We love thee, wind-swept land.

As loved our fathers, so we love,
Where once they stood we stand,
Their prayer we raise to heav'n above,
God guard thee, Newfoundland,
God guard thee, God guard thee,
God guard thee, Newfoundland.

--Sir Cavendish Boyle.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator Flaystus

[Defcon9]

Clam soup Recipe

Boil one quart of clams in the shell, or one pint of opened clams. Strain the clam water. Heat one pint of milk, thicken with two tablespoons of cracker crumbs, flour or cornstarch. Add. To thickened milk, with clam water to season, pepper and butter.

[Defcon9]

Zippy One-Liners

*

What is the sharpest thing in the world?
A Fart. It goes through your pants and doesn't even leave a hole.



*

A skeleton was trying to fart in a crowded place.
But in the end it couldn't 'cos it had no guts.



*

What's the definition of bravery?
A man with diarrhea chancing a fart!



*

What happened to the blind skunk?
He fell in love with a fart.



*

What do you get if you eat beans and onions?
Tear Gas.

*

You're so poor:
You had to fart in your pocket to make a scent.



*

Why fart and waste when you can burp and taste?



*

Why don't little girls fart?
Because they don't have ******** until they're married.



*

What do you call a fart?
A turd honking for the right of way.



*

If I wanted to hear from an ******* I would fart.



*

What did the maxi-pad say to the fart?
You are the wind beneath my wings.



*

What do you call "fart" in German?
Farfrompoopin!



*

Your ass is so tight:
You fart and only dogs can hear it.



*

What do you call someone who doesn't fart in public?
A private tutor!



*

Laugh and the world laughs with you; fart and they'll stop laughing.



Confucius say:
Man who fart in church sit in own pew.

[Defcon9]

If you have not checked your idle speed you will need instrument for checking it. I use a Sunpro CP7603 Dwell Tach. This Dwell Tach has leads that are connected to the body and to the minus terminal on the coil. The Dwell Tach's two switches should be set for a 4-cylinder engine and for the correct rpm range. Please note that Idle speed is set by adjusted the carburetor for your particular year mo

[Defcon9]

STATIC TIMING WITH A TEST LIGHT (models through 1967)

With the ignition off, turn the crankcase pulley with a wrench until the notch in the pulley lines up with the seam in the case and loosen the distributor clamp. Using a test light that is compatible with the car's electrical system (6v or 12v), connect the ground wire to a good ground on the engine. Turn on the ignition switch

[Defcon9]

Overlord says:
man, I gotta start a forum....I wanna be able to ban people at will, and whatnot

[Defcon9]

Max Power says:
newfahs!
newfers says:
huzzah
Max Power says:
huzzah indeed
newfers says:
I like SNL's new George W!
Max Power says:
oh, I am not watching
newfers says:
it's very funny - makin fun of Bush with the old "hard work" stuff he kept repeating in the debate
Max Power says:
I am watching now

Gilbey has been added to the conversation.

newfers says:
hey guys - gotta tuck the wife in...brb!
Gilbey says:
sure thing homes
Max Power says:
yo yo yo whatup Bilgey?
Gilbey says:
not alot...watching I'm with busey and just gonna grab a bre
Gilbey says:
brew
Max Power says:
I'm with BUSEY!
Max Power says:
I forgot about that little show, I don't think it is on anymore
Gilbey says:
dunno if it is or not, but it's still played here
Max Power says:
ALEC BALDWIN
Max Power says:
alright!
Gilbey says:
what about alec baldwin?
Max Power says:
he is on SNL
Max Power says:
right now anyway
Gilbey says:
man that was cool, some kid actor asked busey to make him scared and busey almost had him cryin
Max Power says:
lol
Max Power says:
That was agreat idea for a show
Gilbey says:
yeah, sometimes he seems kinda flaky though
Max Power says:
lol, Dr Porkenheimers Boner Juice!
Max Power says:
lol, on the rare occasion boner lasts for more than 24 hours, call a friend and brag about it
Gilbey says:
haha
Max Power says:
well, the first couple SNL things this season were OK
Max Power says:
Man, this crazy dog only wants to shit on the porch, and only at night
Max Power says:
really frustrating
Gilbey says:
that is a little odd
Max Power says:
Debbie Downer!
Max Power says:
Dave!
newfers says:
anyway, I am back!
newfers says:
I know
newfers says:
I am not taping SNL. I am watching it. I suspect it shall not stick to the tivo!
newfers says:
but I like Debbie Downer!
Max Power says:
Did you see the Boner Juice ad, it was worth a chortle
Gilbey says:
HAHAHAH Busey's playin the hambone!
newfers says:
yeah, it was funny, in a 5th grade kinda way!
Gilbey says:
damn he's doin good too!
newfers says:
Busey whu?
Max Power says:
He is watching I'm with Busey
newfers says:
that show was weird
newfers says:
hey Joel, the girl in the Dr Porkenheimer ad, kinda looks a little like Amy at times
Gilbey says:
it's weird alright, but I like it in a lets watch the psychotic kinda way
newfers says:
but I don't have it recorded to see if she really did
Max Power says:
Amy was just here
Max Power says:
She got a haircut
newfers says:
so I hear!
newfers says:
"crippling leg cramps" wahhh wahhhh!
Max Power says:
they've located my birth mother, Deseased wahhhhh wahhhhh
Max Power says:
That was not as good a Debbie Downer sketch
Max Power says:
this is gonna be good I think
newfers says:
yes lol I like this
newfers says:
I am heating a tv dinner and then I will eat it, and then I will throw it away, and THEN i will get a beer!
Max Power says:
this is great
newfers says:
yes, it is great!
Max Power says:
lol
Gilbey says:
I skipped straight to the ber
newfers says:
good for you, ya alkie!
newfers says:
I just watched a scary documetary called "Bush's Brain" about Karl Rove. That ****** is evil, and no doubt he will try to slander Kerry in the next month
Max Power says:
lol!
newfers says:
I love the Adobe thing!
Max Power says:
that was great
newfers says:
Queen Latifah? christ
newfers says:
and what the **** is a "Nelly"?
Max Power says:
so far Dave, though, much better than Mad TV
newfers says:
I am taping the MadTV, so I will reserve judgment!
Max Power says:
Nelly, as you might suspect, is a rapper, but it is a he
newfers says:
my guess is that he is an *******
Max Power says:
I think he perhaps is the one who popularized wearing bandaids on the face as a fashion statement
Max Power says:
which is brilliant
newfers says:
Jimmy Fallon is no longer on SNL, so it's bumped up a notch in my opinion. Now only Horatio Sanz will be bursting into laughter 500 times in each sketch
Max Power says:
I like Horatio
newfers says:
brb with my crappy tv dinner!
Max Power says:
Dave, your TV dinner will be delicious
Max Power says:
I microwaved some TV dinner mac and cheese that was in the freezer tother day, expectations were low gentlemen, and it was fan-*******-tastic
Max Power says:
better than boxed mac and cheese by a factor of 7
newfers says:
wow!
newfers says:
really?
Max Power says:
indeed!
newfers says:
that rarely happens. Was it IAMS brand?
Max Power says:
it wasn't
Max Power says:
So I wrote to IAMS and complained
Max Power says:
This complaining thing is getting addictive, I just wrote an angry email to McDs today
newfers says:
you did??? do tell!!
Gilbey says:
gotta say dudes, I'm likin the loadin speed of the pages in firefox
Max Power says:
I waited at McDs for ten minutes
newfers says:
yeah, Firefox does load stuff quicker
newfers says:
cuz it blocks popups and other bullshit, which is why some sites do not work
Max Power says:
And I was dumbfounded, unamused, still hungry, and a little hurt when I decided to just ask for my money back
newfers says:
waited at a drive thru window?
Max Power says:
No, I went in, I thought it would be quicker
Max Power says:
big mistake
Max Power says:
But it is Paul Bunyan show time, and Nelsonville is bustling
Gilbey says:
that sounds like a bad code phrase in a b grade spy flick
newfers says:
McDonald's, when you do get the food, tends to irritate the bowels, I find!
Max Power says:
oh Lord it was painful, thank Gary Busey it wasn't my only reason for driving to Nelsonville this AM
newfers says:
if you guys were being executed, and who knows, maybe we will, but , what would you choose as a last meal?
Max Power says:
what a strange question
newfers says:
yes it is!
Max Power says:
Are you serious?
Gilbey says:
I'd have to say....the olsen twins
newfers says:
sure! I am eating an awful tv dinner, thinking about awful McD's, and wondering what I would choose if I could have anything
newfers says:
I think I would like some fried Faberge Eggs. Or maybe scrambled
Max Power says:
There is a Japanese fish that is some kind of delicacy that is poisonous, I would want that
Max Power says:
or fried Panda!
Max Power says:
Hey, do they hunt kangaroos in Austrailia
newfers says:
yes they do!
newfers says:
they make a tasty stew
Max Power says:
is there a kangaroo hunting season?
Max Power says:
that is legal?
Gilbey says:
and they come with their own doggy bag
Max Power says:
I might like Kangaroo
Max Power says:
definitely something I'd not had before
Max Power says:
for my last meal
newfers says:
seriously, there is a kangaroo hunt, but perhaps not legal
Max Power says:
I dunno, I bet they are like deer here
newfers says:
I think I would want something that might kill me before I could get executed
Max Power says:
perhaps they have deer there!
Max Power says:
I think that dying via a lethal injection would be wicked cool
newfers says:
lethal injection probably feels like doing whippets, only a little more permanent
Max Power says:
I think they shoot you up with some really good stuff before they inject the shit that kills ya
newfers says:
oh no, Nelly. ****
newfers says:
****
newfers says:
****
newfers says:
shitty music alert!
newfers says:
I will hit the Mute
newfers says:
there - sweet silence
Max Power says:
that does suck
newfers says:
I've farted better melodies!
Max Power says:
they are sitting there like they know how to play guitar, and are playing it!
Gilbey says:
hello, I'm Trot McClure
newfers says:
hello Trot
newfers says:
is that short for "Trots"
newfers says:
?
Max Power says:
Do I remember you form a popular film?
Max Power says:
or from one?
Gilbey says:
the only good thing phil hartman did for the show, in my opnion
Max Power says:
aww no
Max Power says:
Lionel Hutz!
Max Power says:
he had some others surely....
Gilbey says:
never liked hutz
newfers says:
hey guys, if the first line of this story doesn't make you laugh out loud, maybe you have a conscience : http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=47052
Max Power says:
Cases won in 30 minutes or your pizza is free? you gotta be kiddin me?
newfers says:
"An afternoon pick-up at a Stoneham elementary school turned horrific yesterday when an elderly amputee plowed his car into a crowd of students and parents, pinning several young children against a concrete wall, authorities said. "
newfers says:
LOL the feel good story of the week!
Max Power says:
why is an elderly amputee driving?
newfers says:
who the **** let an elderly amputee drive!?
Gilbey says:
an "accident" allright, he prolly got pissed when they wouldn't take te candy
newfers says:
ok, I need beer!!
newfers says:
brb
Gilbey says:
a damn fine idea sir, if I do say so myself
Max Power says:
yuck, I can see that story unfolding
Max Power says:
Enrico Caruso, you and your shitty blue Corsica should get the **** off the road!
newfers says:
I cain't stop sneezin, I cain't
Max Power says:
snort some water up your nose
newfers says:
ok, here is the new news
newfers says:
2 women doin the news! awesome, I love that Amy Poehler
Max Power says:
I love that Tina Fey
newfers says:
she's cute, and I bet she has one hairy vagina!
Max Power says:
!!!
newfers says:
whoa!! Gandolfini!!!
newfers says:
WHOA!!
newfers says:
goddamn, I love that guy! he's impressive, ain't he?
newfers says:
this is GREAT!
Max Power says:
he's cool!
newfers says:
I think I would poo a little if I met him
Max Power says:
he's Tony Soprano
newfers says:
oh yeah...that show really redeemed itself this past season....I loved every moment of it
Gilbey says:
haven't watched it in a coon's age
newfers says:
Sopranos has it's ups n downs, but the most recent season had some excellent moments
newfers says:
will Tiny n Amy make out a little , Joel??? will they?
Max Power says:
What in the hell are you talking about?
newfers says:
I want Tina Fey and Amy Poehler to make out a little
Max Power says:
oh, that would be nice
newfers says:
maybe just squeeze each other's titties
Max Power says:
I thought you were talking about Amy Amy and Tiny (Erin)
newfers says:
lol
newfers says:
I didn't realize I typed "Tiny"
newfers says:
lol
newfers says:
ok, I just laughed a little snot out
Gilbey says:
well there ya go, that's how ya know somethings funny
newfers says:
Tiny
newfers says:
lol
Max Power says:
Tiny and Amy are out together right now, I dunno, I still should have know you were talking about the SNL newsgals
newfers says:
Tiny???!!! LOL
newfers says:
oh the humanity, that's funny
newfers says:
I keep getting spam from a Nancy Patterson
Max Power says:
wicked
newfers says:
Joel, I need to drink with you again sometime!
newfers says:
been too fuckin long
Max Power says:
yes
Max Power says:
It has
newfers says:
I mean, I drink alone a lot, but
Max Power says:
I like this skit already
newfers says:
yes, it is good!
newfers says:
kinda MrShow-y in a way
Max Power says:
except stupid Affleck SAID elevator instead of escalator
newfers says:
yes! I know!
newfers says:
fuckin hack!
Max Power says:
all the blind people watching TV are very confused
Max Power says:
I love this skit
Gilbey says:
hey max, I got a reply.....https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239276
Gilbey says:
I think it's time for some tunes, gents
newfers says:
you got a reply?
newfers says:
cool
newfers says:
I don't know much about VCDs
Gilbey says:
yeah, too ad the dvd player is crappy....guess I'll have to get a new one
Max Power says:
I don't understand what I am looking at here Bilgey
Gilbey says:
bad
Gilbey says:
what do you mean?
Max Power says:
You started the thread?
Max Power says:
Maddog?
Gilbey says:
indeed I did
Max Power says:
ahh
Max Power says:
You think your VCDs are good and that your DVD player sucks?
newfers says:
Maddog! great nick
Max Power says:
Do you have a DVD drive in your computer?
Gilbey says:
according to everything I've read about the dvd player, that's the answer I'm inclined to go with
Max Power says:
Is there a switch on the back of it?
Max Power says:
I think that defcon9 is retarded
Gilbey says:
I haven't checked....never knew about the last reply til I checked it a few secs ago
newfers says:
do DVD players have switches on the back?
newfers says:
maybe only the good Sanyo DVD players have switches
Max Power says:
I bet that one Gandolfini had would work!
Gilbey says:
he's prolly just fuckin with me, lotta idiots like that on this site, trouble is most of them do have some idea of what they're talkin about
Max Power says:
this Affleck sketch is really good - this is a damn good ep!
Max Power says:
lol!
Gilbey says:
so you can't really dismiss what they say out of hand
newfers says:
why would he **** with you?
Gilbey says:
some of them do
newfers says:
I need to get an account there!
Gilbey says:
why else would he post a reply to a question I never asked?
Max Power says:
this is hilarious!
Max Power says:
This SNL is ******* great
newfers says:
Affleck does not suck as much as I thought!
newfers says:
I agree with you on an SNL matter, for once!
newfers says:
but, does this SNL have a switch on the back, I ask you?
Gilbey says:
doesn't matter since it's 4:3
newfers says:
lol
Max Power says:
Gilbey, I would like to make a suggestion
newfers says:
uh oh
Gilbey says:
by all means
Max Power says:
OK, I have some VCDs and they are OK
Max Power says:
but get yourself a DVD burner and then copy DVDs and download DVD disk images and shit, because DVDs are pretty darn good
Max Power says:
There is too much ******* around with this VCD shit, you are doing shit a CG guy with Mirimax should be doing
Gilbey says:
I agree, and it's next on the agenda, but right now I just don't have the space for it...plus there's the whole dvdr-, dvdr+ issue, not to mention the rewriteables
Max Power says:
I paid no attention to the standards and I am able to successfully copy DVDs
newfers says:
yeah man... your first priority oughta be a hard drive...you just need the extra space...and seriously, a DVD burner can be had for $80 US (100 mega-zillions, Canadian)
Max Power says:
Bilgey, would it be possible, permissable, possible, and likely that we could somehow get this shit for you and ship it to you?
Max Power says:
Perhaps in completed computer form?
Gilbey says:
notwithstanding though, I enjoy doin this shit....it's about the only productive use I've ever put my computer and my brain toward......it just pisses me off that after the time spend the vcd freezes or skips
Max Power says:
Gilbey, my DVD player plays VCDs
Max Power says:
but sometimes, it just doesn't feel like doing it
Max Power says:
There is no rhyme or reason to it, they just don't always work right, they freeze in different spots, there are artifacts, and I blame this on my player
newfers says:
it may just be a problem with your burner, man. What speed does it burn at?
Max Power says:
But I think that before you go lookin for a new DVD player you just consider the imperfect nature of VCDs and standards and DVD units, and Canadian power frequencies, and don't you guys use PAL
Gilbey says:
the artifacts are a byproduct of encoding and can be minimized by using soften block noise in temgpenc
Max Power says:
just kidding
newfers says:
CD burners are pretty flaky - maybe I oughta send you one of my old ones that works ok
Max Power says:
I tried to burn a CD the other day with my 8X DVD drive and it fuckin crapped out
newfers says:
at least this Defcon dude is responding to your posts
newfers says:
butI dunno what the **** he's talkin bout, willis
newfers says:
really, Joel?
newfers says:
occasionally, shit happens
Max Power says:
yar
Gilbey says:
my burner is an LG HL-DT-ST CDRW GCE 8160B
Gilbey says:
haha Glen! Glen! Glen! is playin
Gilbey says:
anyway, the lowest write speed I can use is 4x for a cdr and 2 for a cdrw
newfers says:
but what is the max speed? is it 40X?
Gilbey says:
undoubtedly that is a prob
newfers says:
48X?
Gilbey says:
15x
Gilbey says:
16x
Max Power says:
that is so ******* slow I would shit in my hand and wipe it on the wall before I went with 2x
Gilbey says:
rather
newfers says:
16X? yeah , you need a newer burner...16X is at least 3 years past...
newfers says:
my first burner was maybe 4X
newfers says:
and it fucked up all the time
Gilbey says:
haha, many posts I've read said the problems I'm experiencing have been resolved by burning at 1x
Max Power says:
I sold a 48X CD burner over a year ago for 20 bucks
Max Power says:
it was like new
Gilbey says:
I just can't go that low
newfers says:
since I've got to 40 or 48, it's mostly been fine
Max Power says:
they are full of shit
Max Power says:
I burn just as well at 52X as they do at 1
Max Power says:
or at 48 to current disc
newfers says:
yeah, that should not be a prob...a good burner will burn, error free, at 48X! and I suspect it IS errors that are causing your DVD player to crap out and freeze the video
Gilbey says:
I'm talking about posts for the dvd player, not the cdburner, Joel
newfers says:
I gotta check your post again, see what that dude was talking about...
Max Power says:
cd writers do tend to just wear out
Gilbey says:
can't be that man, the vcd's play fine on the comp
Max Power says:
you've written too much porn to CD Gilbey
newfers says:
they play fine??
Max Power says:
well then your DVD player is the problem
Gilbey says:
never a hitch
newfers says:
didn't know that
Max Power says:
your menus are where they should be?
Gilbey says:
that's what I've been saying
Max Power says:
Are you talking when you play the actual disc, not the modified files?
Gilbey says:
I haven't been able to access my menus through the comp
newfers says:
defcon9 says something about upgrading the DVD player...can ya do that? check the last post
Gilbey says:
the discs play fine
Max Power says:
in the computer
Max Power says:
?
Max Power says:
Then I think your DVD player is the issue
newfers says:
I don't understand that shit
newfers says:
but I watch everything on the computer, rarely burn stuff in DVD-friendly format
Max Power says:
And what you should do is get an S-Video to RCA composite cable and go from the TV to the VCR Video input, then play your VCDS on the computer, to the TV! If they are nearby to each other, you won't need to run seperate audio cables, just listen to the computer speakers ya bum!
newfers says:
they are not nearby! a good 30 feet!
Max Power says:
I forgot to mention that you plug into the video out on your video card
Max Power says:
do you have vid out?
newfers says:
he is wanting to make VCDs for his sis n bro-in-law
Max Power says:
Well have you considered just telling them to cheeze off until you get some more beer to support your VCR research?
Gilbey says:
it's also for me man, sometimes I just wanna flake on the couch and watch a movie,I'M interested in instead of the crap Al brings home
Max Power says:
I mean VCD research
Max Power says:
What kinda crap does ol Al bring home, is it a lot of gay midget porno?
newfers says:
I honestly enjoy watching shit on the computer, but I can understand it would look more impressive on a big Rent To Own tv!
Max Power says:
because I thought you liked that Gilbey
Gilbey says:
haha he calls himself a movie buff, but he has no fav director or actor, truth is he just like movies....and he brings home whatever is just released...from the blockbusters to the lateset straight to video productions
newfers says:
Al rents a lot of stuff with Rutger Hauer, and Shannon Tweed. Movies with the words "Vengeance" and "Fury" in the titles, as well as the words "Lust", "5" (as in part 5), and "Unleashed"
Max Power says:
Rutger Hauer!
newfers says:
Al likes movies that he can follow. He's a good guy, but not a deep intellect
newfers says:
lol
Max Power says:
He is in my favorite B movie
Gilbey says:
yeah, agreed
Max Power says:
Which I forget the name of
newfers says:
The Hitcher?
Max Power says:
No!
Gilbey says:
good movie...it was my first authoring project
newfers says:
The Hitcher, I liked as a teen. As a grown up, I HATED it!
newfers says:
lol
Gilbey says:
mainly cause I found the movie poster easily! HAHA
newfers says:
I just found it so cheesy, having seen so many better thrillers over the years...but at the time, it seemed really brutal!
newfers says:
especially when the person gets ripped apart with the truck!
Gilbey says:
yeah, I tried to sit through too but I had to turn it off
newfers says:
have you guys had any experiences with movies you loved as teens, that you hated as adults, as though you remembered them being much MUCH better?
Gilbey says:
most of the ones I remember from my adolescence
newfers says:
for me, Hitcher is like that, as well as...what was the movie...."Raising Cain!"

newfers says:
I neb beer
newfers says:
brb
Max Power says:
Most of the movies I saw as young teen I liked
Max Power says:
and yes, most now suck
Gilbey says:
wonderin why I was serious all of a suden, been listenin to classical for about 10 min
newfers says:
on the other side, are there any movies you thought you'd hate, but ended up liking?
newfers says:
at the time, I thought I would hate Schindler's List, but it was surprisingly powerfuk
Gilbey says:
Quills
newfers says:
YES! Quills!
newfers says:
Christine hated that one, and she insisted I rent it
newfers says:
and then decided she hated it
Max Power says:
I think that perhaps I saw Dr Strangelove as a younger kid and thought it was kinda weak
Max Power says:
I have no idea what Quills is
newfers says:
Strangelove I would need to see again. I know it's brilliant, but I suspect I would not appreciate it enough
newfers says:
Quills is about the Marquis De Sade
Gilbey says:
don't recall that movie
Max Power says:
I have no idea what the Marquis De Sade is
newfers says:
Dr Strangelove is a classic from the late 60s
Max Power says:
Sounds French
newfers says:
De Sade = sadist....
Gilbey says:
when I saw kate winslet was in it, thought I'd hate it, but it was actually pretty good
newfers says:
he was the original sadist. His name is where the word originated
newfers says:
but the movie is all artsy and pretentious
Gilbey says:
agreed
Max Power says:
I have no idea what a kate winslet is
Gilbey says:
but true to the libertarian views
newfers says:
Kate Winslet = the whore in Titanic
Gilbey says:
as far as I have researched
newfers says:
the gf in that Jim Carrey movie where he erases her from his memory
Max Power says:
I have no idea what Titanic was even about, I never saw it, it was about coal miners wasn't it?
Max Power says:
some Titantic cave in?
newfers says:
Titanic was about the creation of the United Food and Commercial Workers union, Joel
newfers says:
it starred Ben Kingsley as Gandhi as Mr.Headunion
Gilbey says:
took my breath away..I laughed I cried, it became a part of me
newfers says:
lol
Max Power says:
Are there any movies that you know are completely gay and you are ashamed to admit that you like?
newfers says:
oh hell yeah
newfers says:
mine is "How's your news"
Max Power says:
I kinda like Seabiscuit and that movie is pretty gay
newfers says:
which I saw this week, and I loved it, but hated myself for loving it!
newfers says:
"how's your news" is about a buncha retards, which is gayer than a famous horse, Joel
Gilbey says:
Joel is a romantic comedy fool, aincha Joel?
newfers says:
NO!
newfers says:
I am the romantic comedy fool, I think
Max Power says:
a famous horse is pretty gay, have you seen seabiscuit
newfers says:
a movie like "Love Actually" works for me!
newfers says:
but not anything with Tom Hanks and/or Meg Ryan
Max Power says:
I think that movie is total bollocks, I can't get through the first 15 minutes though I have tried a coupla times
Gilbey says:
hahah, bollocks, haha
Max Power says:
I have a pretty rough time sitting through the first 15 minutes of movies though
newfers says:
"Love Actually" worked well for me! it just worked... and I am a harsh movie critic!
newfers says:
if I see David Spade, for example, I give up
Gilbey says:
man, you're nuts, castaway was a classic!
Max Power says:
See, I liked Joe Dirt
Max Power says:
And I suspect you might too Dave, if you gave it half a chance, at least it has a few gags you would like
newfers says:
Castaway was good! I was referring to the romantic comedy Hanks films!
newfers says:
Joel, make me a DVD of Joe Dirt, and I will watch it!
newfers says:
or loan me a copy
Gilbey says:
ahhh, understood
Max Power says:
A League of their Own was TV today earlier whilst I was on the computer and though that movie sucks, and is totally gay, it has some great Tom Hanks in it
Max Power says:
I think Erin has it on VHS
newfers says:
Hanks himself is good
Max Power says:
can you playback VHS
Max Power says:
?
newfers says:
Tiny has it?
Max Power says:
lol
Gilbey says:
she's much.......larger than I remember her being
newfers says:
there's a lot of her to love
newfers says:
and joel had better clear the window when they get home!
Max Power says:
I will sir David
Gilbey says:
you got a "for sale" sign in the window, Joel?
Max Power says:
I think Dave meant the chat window
Max Power says:
so Tiny does not learn that her name is Tiny
Gilbey says:
maybe you've stapled her undies to the window frame for all to see?
Max Power says:
God help us
Gilbey says:
hahah
Max Power says:
brb
newfers says:
lol
Gilbey says:
hey dave, what happened dude? Go for a brew?
newfers says:
yeah, had to pee! I forgot to brb
newfers says:
stop yer whinin!
Gilbey says:
thought maybe you had some rapscallions outside or something
newfers says:
no, not tonight, sir!
newfers says:
so how's life in the Gilbey household these days? did Al n Leona (or either) see the vid I sent? Were they disgusted?
Gilbey says:
new message from video help! Maybe I won the lott'ry
newfers says:
huh?
newfers says:
they emailin ya?
Gilbey says:
nah, he's a bastad
newfers says:
a bastad?

newfers says:
oh, bastard?
Max Power says:
you sent a vid?
newfers says:
I sent a DVD to Gilbey, of my Chillicothe adventures
Gilbey says:
hmmm, strange.....defcon 9 sounds like he just might be you dave
newfers says:
lol
newfers says:
you got me, my niggah!
Max Power says:
make good with the Lord
newfers says:
I had to wait TWO days to make my first post!
Gilbey says:
hahaha
newfers says:
so I had to make it good
Gilbey says:
I know, annoying isn't it
newfers says:
anyway, I figgered it'd be fun!
newfers says:
and I was right! I laughed my fat arse off!
Gilbey says:
haha
newfers says:
Pray to Saint Erasmus!
Gilbey says:
patron saint of kiddie porn, I hear
newfers says:
hahaha yes!
newfers says:
Joel, MadTV really sucked tonight. SNL was much better! I am shocked!
Max Power says:
yeah, who is Erasmus?
Max Power says:
Mad TV sucks Dave
Gilbey says:
see above
Max Power says:
it just sucks
newfers says:
no, you are wrong. Tonight, it sucked
Max Power says:
I see reruns on now, perhaps on Comedy Central, Mad TV sucks
newfers says:
but this season it has sucked
Max Power says:
it sucks Dave
newfers says:
but SNL sucks a lot too
Max Power says:
Not as much as Mad TV to me
newfers says:
I respect that, yo
newfers says:
respek
Max Power says:
rekognize!
Max Power says:
respek
Gilbey says:
testify!
newfers says:
they are advertising in Entertainment Weekly a NEW 2 hour special of "The Office" on BBC America in late october, but Joel, I think it is the Christmas special what we saw last year!
Max Power says:
wicked!
Max Power says:
just after Christmas
newfers says:
that show still makes me weep openly!
newfers says:
maybe not openly
newfers says:
internally
newfers says:
I weep internally
Max Power says:
it is a pretty good show
Max Power says:
and though the show is really good, I am surprised that I like it as I do
newfers says:
the last ep is one of the best things ever
newfers says:
yeah, I am surprised you like it too
newfers says:
it's a hard work kinda show!
Max Power says:
I am surprised that you like it!
newfers says:
hard to get into!
newfers says:
I am surprised you are surprised that I am surprised that you like it!
newfers says:
I need a ******* beer, dudes
newfers says:
brb
Max Power says:
That statement surprised me
Max Power says:
I think that perhaps the greatest thing on TV right now is a TV show called American Chopper
Gilbey says:
the level of suprise is a suprise to me
Max Power says:
And I just think it is hilarious, and quite interesting
Max Power says:
Have either of you seen this ******* show
Max Power says:
?
Gilbey says:
no sir, I have not....nor do I wish to
Max Power says:
Well, I am going to talk about it a little bit right now
Max Power says:
I will try to set up the main characters
newfers says:
I have not
newfers says:
ok, do tell
Max Power says:
Paul Sr. owns a custom bike shop, his son Paul Jr is the creative genius that designs their high end bikes
Max Power says:
little brother Mikey hangs around the shop and tries to be kinda just chill
Defcom9 Sucks Wrestlers Cocks In Panama! says:
jr or sr
newfers says:
too many Pauls for my liking
Max Power says:
Anyway, I will tell you why the show is FUNNY to me
Max Power says:
with something that I saw on an episode recently
Max Power says:
though I don't think it was a recent episode
Max Power says:
OK Mikey, who I really like, has built a bike or two in the shop, they have done shows centered around Mikey, but this show was not...
Defcom9 Sucks Wrestlers Cocks In Panama! says:
what are you ramblin about?
newfers says:
ok, I am with you, though I am involved in a brilliant MadTV sketch right now involving George W reading My Pet Goat to some kids
Max Power says:
But there was a part of the show where Mikey went to take his motorcycle drivers license test
Max Power says:
you both suck
Max Power says:
watch the show
Max Power says:
give it a chance, it is pretty darn good
Defcom9 Sucks Wrestlers Cocks In Panama! says:
he's lyin! as we speak he's surfin for amputee porn! Can't get the story from earlier out of his head!
newfers says:
I will do that Joel
newfers says:
right now
newfers says:
I will put it on Tivo season pass
Max Power says:
awesome
newfers says:
there, done...Tivo will tape it for me
Max Power says:
it might be a bit too gearhead kinda thing for ya, but the interaction between the family is great
newfers says:
cool - I think Indian Larry appeared on that show
newfers says:
who was gonna be in Chillicothe last month, til he died
newfers says:
if that makes sense
Max Power says:
could be!
Max Power says:
it is a good show, but probably not knock your socks off good unless you kinda like motorcycles
Defcom9 Sucks Wrestlers Cocks In Panama! says:
he'd be about a month or two older if he'd been alive
Defcon9 says:
I am Defcon9! does your DVD player have a switch on the back? I suspect it does!
Defcon9 says:
I do not suck wrestler cocks in panama! wrestlers stand in line to suck my **** in Joisey!
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
mine doesn't but it's a dvd player from hell
Max Power says:
penultimate is second to last, correct?
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
correct
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
I'm not very devout
Defcon9 says:
I posted one more post as Defcon9
Max Power says:
lol
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
haha, you sure...I haven't had a flag pop up
Defcon9 says:
unless I hit a keyword
Defcon9 says:
that refused my post
Max Power says:
it is there
Max Power says:
but Dave, it looks like you are calling defcon9 a fag
Defcon9 says:
I couldn't resist! the popular posts make the post appear at the top
Defcon9 says:
perhaps he is!
Max Power says:
You know him best Dave
Max Power says:
Your name is too good to be true though
Max Power says:
defcon9 is perfect
Max Power says:
a perfect fakey name
Defcon9 says:
there is one more final last post
Defcon9 says:
I swear
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
it's been done though...there are several defcons in that forum
Defcon9 says:
that is why I chose Defcon 9
Max Power says:
You queer.
Defcon9 says:
lol
Max Power says:
that is a whole sentence in the defcon world and I love it
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
your only problem was posting a reply aimed at a question that was specific to me and had nothing to do with the original post
You queer says:
whoops!
You queer says:
I am still happy with how it all turned out
You queer says:
and it makes your post very popular! and likely to be locked down
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
hahaha
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
just don't get me banned, these guys have helped me alot
Max Power says:
I just want to point out that while it is likely a typo that alot is not a word
Max Power says:
But I think we all know that
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
irregardless
Max Power says:
perhaps it should be
You queer says:
one more last final post!
Max Power says:
usre regardless instead weenie
You queer says:
I will keep posting til I am banned!
You queer says:
I am gonna EARN my time spent waiting for 2 days!
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
well lemme know if nuthin hapens and after a day or so I'll request the post be cloesed
Max Power says:
Now, I want you to post a recipe for some kind of a soup
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
brb....got p like a race horse
You queer says:
ok, I shapp!
You queer says:
shall
You queer says:
Soup recipe posted
Max Power says:
what the hell kinda song is that about new foundland?
You queer says:
that is our anthem! and it looks weird
You queer says:
but it sounds cool
Max Power says:
your anthem gives me the shits!
You queer says:
no, my clam soup recipe gives you the shits!

Max Power says:
any anthem that uses the words fret and tempest is a weird anthem
Max Power says:
I really want to have some Clam soup now
You queer says:
I will keep posting. Suggestions, please?
You queer says:
clam soup recipe, national anthem, and fart jokes. What next?
Max Power says:
I would think that doing one pertaining to how to check your vehicle for correct ignition timing
The Penultimate St. Erasumus Prayer says:
should have something to do with video....how about a resurgence of the 4:3/16:9 debate
Max Power says:
http://www.w-p-c.com/buggy10.htm
Max Power says:
If you have not checked your idle speed you will need instrument for checking it. I use a Sunpro CP7603 Dwell Tach. This Dwell Tach has leads that are connected to the body and to the minus terminal on the coil. The Dwell Tach's two switches should be set for a 4-cylinder engine and for the correct rpm range. Please note that Idle speed is set by adjusted the carburetor for your particular year mo
Max Power says:
STATIC TIMING WITH A TEST LIGHT (models through 1967)

With the ignition off, turn the crankcase pulley with a wrench until the notch in the pulley lines up with the seam in the case and loosen the distributor clamp. Using a test light that is compatible with the car's electrical system (6v or 12v), connect the ground wire to a good ground on the engine. Turn on the ignition switch (but do not tur
You queer says:
done!
Overlord says:
man, I gotta start a forum....I wanna be able to ban people at will, and whatnot

[Defcon9]

Three Times a Lady:
The History of Lawrence's Lady Chatterly's Lover

by

Randall Martin ©1998


Between the years 1926 and 1928, D. H. Lawrence wrote his final Lady Chatterly's Lover three times. Finishing the third revision, he decided the book was ready for publication, but when he attempted to persuade his agents and publishers to print the work, all were obstinately opposed. Already, he was a seasoned veteran of battles over censorship against people whom he referred to as "morons," battles which put an added strain on his already failing health (Moore 9). He expected difficulty in finding a publisher brave enough to print the content as it stood. As he foresaw, they all refused to publish it unless he agreed to make some changes to the text which would show the public that it was a work of literary merit apart from all the sex and four-letter words. In A Propos of Lady Chatterly's Lover, Lawrence said that he was tempted to make such changes for money but that they were impossible. He said, "I might as well try to clip my own nose into shape with scissors. The book bleeds" (2).

He refused to bow to the demands of the "censor-morons" as he had for the publication of his first novel, The White Peacock. Being in poor health, it was no longer a question of money nor of the writer's creed "publish or perish." He was guided by the desire to speak openly, honestly, and fervently about matters which the majority would rather keep silent. No longer having the patience to veil what he perceived as truth, he met with a Florentine bookseller named Guiseppe Orioli who agreed to print the book in his Tipografia Giuntina using Lawrence's own capital. Orioli, the compiler, knew little English and even less trepidation, for when Lawrence warned him of the book's volatile content, the Italian replied smugly, "O Ma! We do it every day!" (Moore 20).

The 1,000 copies of this first edition printed in July 1928 were sold through Lawrence's close personal friends due to the expectation of trouble from the police. At only two pounds each, the book sold quickly so that by December, this first version was completely sold out (Draper 20). In November, he published another cheaper edition of 200 copies which sold as quickly as the first.

The novel, despite the fact that its audience was limited to only those who had ties to the black market, was a profitable one for Lawrence. In fact, he would have become extremely wealthy had he been given a royalty on all the pirated editions which sprang up almost immediately after its first publication. One bookseller felt guilty about selling an unauthorized novel, so he sent Lawrence a small percentage of the profits. Lawrence remarked that if this were just a drop in the bucket, as the bookseller had indicated, it must have been a wonderful bucket (Lawrence 12). As it was published privately, no copyright was issued, so the novel was free game to any and all who wished to pirate their own editions, and the pirates could sell them for as much as possible.

The immediacy and pervasiveness with which the pirated editions arose is astounding. Apparently, someone in America had ordered an edition from one of Lawrence's friends, and within a month of its arrival there, the first pirated edition was offered for sale in New York, usually at the price of fifteen dollars. Even the most `reliable' bookstores sold pirated editions to the public as if they were the originals (Lawrence 5).

By 1929, Lawrence himself possessed a pirated edition, a "filthy-looking book...containing my [his] forged signature by the little boy of the piratical family" (Lawrence 4). In response to this edition's appearance in London, Lawrence put forth a second edition in November 1928, again from the tiny Florentine print shop. This time he only printed two hundred copies and offered them at one guinea each as it was smaller and less expensive to print.

Lawrence also possessed a pirated edition that resembled a long Bible, a funeral version, and in America before the end of the decade, at least four pirated editions are recorded. In Europe, a pirated edition of 1500 copies was very near to the original. Only the corrections of a few of the spelling mistakes, which had been made to begin with by the English illiterate Orioli, the absence of the author's signature, and a slightly different binding identified it as a false version. Being so close to the original, the book was sold to an unsuspecting public at anywhere from 300 to 500 francs (Lawrence 7).

Several pirates offered Lawrence a guarantee of royalty from the sale of their editions if he would simply agree to authorize them. While this would not have made their editions any more legal, it would have served to make stiff-necked booksellers more ready to carry the books. However,, Lawrence was as opposed to this idea as he was to the idea of expurgating Lady Chatterly's Lover to appease the censor-happy publishers. He said, "It is understood that Judas always stands ready with a kiss. But that I should have to kiss him back-!" (Lawrence 8).

Instead of succumbing to the requests of the pirates, he managed to publish a cheap edition in May 1929 of 3,000 copies in Paris. This edition sold out by August at sixty francs and was the first to include his prefatory essay entitled "My Skirmish with Jolly Roger," a defense, explication, and history of the novel that was published posthumously as A Propos of Lady Chatterly's Lover. In light of the multitudinous damning criticisms, such a volume was needed. Nevertheless, the publication came too late and few people took time to read it to figure out what Lawrence's intentions were when he set the pen to paper. Virtually every criticism of the book indicated to some extent that Lawrence was obsessed with sex. Some even went so far as to say that the entire book was laden with evil. An anonymous author in John Bull wrote a scathing review about the novel which "reeked with obscenity and lewdness...The muddy minded perverts peddled in the backstreets of Paris are prudish by comparison" (Draper 278). Like many other critics, he felt indifferent to people who wanted to be tainted by Lawrence so long as they kept their distance.

With such negative criticism, the flames of hatred against both the author and the book were ignited in the hearts of the general public, particularly the church-going crowd. Because of what others had said about it, most became so afraid of the book that they would not even allow it in their sight, much less read it for fear that immediate corruption would ensue. With this outcry from the religious community, police in England and America had their hands full preventing the sale of the novel. Undercover police approached a book shop in Oxford in September 1928 and asked if they carried a copy of the novel. The clerk denied indignantly that they stocked it but later approached the undercover officer as he was leaving and said that he could get a copy as a favor to a friend if no receipt was needed.

In America on November 25, 1930, an agent of the Watch and Ward Society purchased a copy of Lady Chatterly's Lover at the Dunster House Book shop in Cambridge, Massachucets. James Delancy, the manager, and Joseph Sullivan, his clerk, were both convicted of selling obscene literature, a crime for which Mr. Delancy was find $800.00 and assigned four months in the house of corrections while Mr. Sullivan was sentenced to two weeks in prison and a $200.00 fine (Morris 2603). The case was appealed to Superior Court on December 19 and 20, 1929. The defense attorney leveled his attack against the unscrupulous methodology employed by the Watch and Ward Society when black-mailing the defendants. He stated that they were "depraved and perverted" to manipulate the booksellers the way they did, and cared little about disagreeing that Lady Chatterly's Lover was obscene. Since he was defending the booksellers, not Lawrence, he was not concerned with the book's reputation. The prosecutor attacked the Watch and Ward Society so that when the trial was over, the Society was censured by the judge. Unfortunately for the two defendants, they were still considered guilty, and their sentences stood unchanged.

Among the hubbub of the anti-Lawrence community, a small group of people voiced support of the book. He received many letters from booksellers, critics, and readers praising the novel and asking questions about what happened to Lady Chatterly or complaining that their orders had not been received (Moore 20). In answer, Lawrence wrote in the margins of the letters and sent them to the Florentine publisher to be typed into formal replies. While most of the criticism condemned his obsession with sex and fowl language, few would deny that he was a man of genius. Even the bully in John Bull had this to say on his behalf: "Mr. Lawrence is a man of genius. As a psychologist he is in the front rank of living writers; as a stylist he stands supreme" (Draper 278).

Lawrence became extremely ill in late 1929 and moved to the Swiss Alps and then to the South of France in search of a healthy atmosphere, but news of the novel continued to follow him. It is likely that the strain of the publication details of Lady Chatterly's Lover hastened his death in 1930. One day in early 1930, he said, "The hatred which my books have aroused comes back at me and gets me here," pointing to his heart (Moore 25). He was a serious man who took news of his novel's acceptance seriously. Later that year, due to complications, he passed away in the South of France. With the death of Lawrence, publishers felt at liberty to expurgate it at will. Without a copyright, a publisher who could come up with a clean version had the promise of the novel's preceding reputation to back up its success. In 1932, two expurgated versions were published, 2,000 copies in America and 3,440 copies in England. Frieda Lawrence, D. H. Lawrence's widow, endorsed one expurgated version on the jacket sleeve stating that it "suggests to the greatest possible extent the original's strength and vigor" (Hazlitt 289). However, one can only assume that Lawrence would have published the novel in an expurgated version when he was alive had he so desired. He made so many attempts to defy authority and have his third version of the novel published the way he wanted that no one can assume he would have been pleased. To him, the detailed descriptions of the sex act were central to convey his philosophy on the issue, and the four-letter words were nothing more than all men knew. He used them in an attempt to capture or mirror what he perceived as reality.

The publishers of this version euphemistically referred to it as an `abridged' edition. Whole pages were left out with nothing but confusing asterisks left to mark their omissions. There was no consistency in the use of these astriks; some deleted pages were not even mentioned. Every description of the act of sex and all four-letter words which could have been remotely objectional were left out. Moreover, the reader was not made aware of when his or her "chastity was being protected from the depraving influence of the original volume" (Hazlitt 289). It would have been better had the editors simply been consistent in their omissions.

Criticism of this expurgated version often focused on the inconsistency of the omissions but was generally in favor of the clean version, although the name carried with it a certain dubious reputation which prohibited its purchase by the religious community. They were still afraid of it. In America, literary criticism was caught up in the worries of the Great Depression, and concerns over Lady Chatterly's Lover took a back seat to the more immediately important issue of keeping food on the table. Nevertheless, its popularity evidently did not die. The National Union Catalog records fifteen different printings of expurgated versions between the years 1932 and 1943 in America, England, and Paris. A considerable number of these novels were sold, and the black market still carried a full line of assorted unexpurgated copies.

Further evidence of the novel's continued popularity lies in the 1944 printing of Lawrence's first version of the novel. Printed under the fitting title, The First Lady Chatterly, Dial Press expected to capitalize on the novel's reputation. It was this reputation, however, that led to a court battle in November 1944.

Earlier that year in May, Charles Sumner, raided the offices of Dial Press in New York City seizing four hundred copies of the novel. When it came to trial, two of the three justices hearing the case decided that there was reasonable doubt as to the obscenity of the novel.

Besides lacking the four-letter words that lit so much controversy over the third version, this edition also differed in characterization. The character of the gamekeeper, Mellors, was originally named Parkin who was more of a social figure. In the third version, with Mellors, the social motif was not as direct, and the love theme was thereby emphasized more exclusively (Moore 20). Parkin speaks only in the vernacular while Mellors speaks the common language in affectionate scenes and the king's English when he wishes. "In Constance Chatterly, the changes are perhaps less drastic, but they are no less important to her motivation" (Schorer xxxi). Clifford Chatterly gradually comes to be bitter in the first version, whereas he is already bitter at the start of the third. All of these changes lend themselves to the theme which evolved in Lawrence's mind as he wrote the book. Therefore, the strongest criticism against accepting this first version as authoritative lies in the fact that the message Lawrence wished to convey through the story was not perfected until the final version.

Most critics agreed that there was nothing wrong with the idea of publishing this version of the manuscript. Lawrence had not included much of what made the third version so hated, and a respectable literary opinion centered on the idea that this version was at least as good if not better than the third draft which Lawrence preferred. Indeed, had Lawrence been satisfied with his first draft of the novel, it would have been published with very little commotion. Still, it is impossible to say how the novel would have been viewed critically were it not for the controversy it generated. Evidence points to the possibility that the novel would not have enjoyed great popularity. Many critics agreed that the plot was too simple and that the characters were utterly dead inside, that it was a bleak, depressing novel. It simply was not Lawrence's best work.

Even though the book may not have been his best, the idea of not being able to legally purchase the third version was difficult to accept, even for those who did not necessarily care for the novel itself. The gradual push for the publication of the third version without abridgement continued. In 1953, a collection of Lawrence's essays regarding his sexual ideology entitled Sex Literature and Censorship was edited by Harry Moore. In this book Moore called for the publication of an unexpurgated third version: "Now, twenty years after the legalization of Ulysses, we might expect a publisher to undertake the genuine Lady Chatterly's Lover" (26). He would have to wait six years more until Grove Press accepted that portentous task.

"Like water pressure that has slowly built up behind a cracked dam, the suppressed book suddenly burst upon us" (Evans 144). Once the novel was available in pure, unexpurgated form, the greatest battle in its controversial history exploded culminating in a trial at the U. S. District Court under Judge Frederick vanPelt Bryan. Opponents and proponents voiced their opinions openly. Among the more eminent figures opposed to the book were Post Master General Arthur E. Summerfield and President Eisenhower. When Summerfield showed the President a copy of the book in which he had marked some of the four-letter words and sex scenes, the shocked President replied "Dreadful...We can't have it." (Evans 145). The religious community backed the President in an outcry against the novel. The publisher at Grove Press was thankful for those who stood up in defense of the novel as it was banned from the mail system. He had printed 30,000 copies which were projected to sell rapidly, and were it not for the testimonies of distinguished people such as Aldous Huxley and the thoughtful foresight of Judge Bryan, Grove Press might have been forced into bankruptcy (Kazin 34).

Summerfield had been charged by Congress with the duty of excluding obscenity from the mails, and when copies were mailed by Grove Press in the spring of 1959, he was challenged with fulfilling this obligation of office. When he denied it from the mails, the publisher immediately sued in the Federal District Court asking that the ruling of the Postmaster be laid aside. He called on some of the paramount literary critics to defend the novel as a work of art, and all of them contended that it was one of the most important novels of the century. The work was characterized as one containing dignity. "They even went so far as to stress its high `religious quality' and `consecrated vein'" (Evans 146).

Once both sides had argued their case, Judge Bryan, having read the novel himself, decided that Lady Chatterly's Lover was "an honest and sincere novel of literary merit" (qtd. in Evans 146). He thought that the scenes which the Postmaster General had pointed out as obscene were necessary to the plot structure in conveying the author's intent. The language that the President regarded as `dreadful' "seemed to him not inconsistent with character, situation or theme" (Evans 146).

In this light, Judge Bryan issued an order that the book be allowed all the privileges of the mail, a ruling which outraged many citizens. J. Benedict, in the title of his essay regarding the matter, called the case "A Legal Leftwing Softening of Public Morality" (3). Many were afraid that this decision would only lead to the freedom of the press to publish anything and everything, which it may have done to a certain extent. They feared that what may result from the decision would be "the noisiest censorship yap since James Joyce's Ulyesses was declared literature by Federal Judge John M. Woolsey in 1933" (Morris 88). Some were puzzled. They thought that if the Postmaster General were charged with keeping obscenity from the mail, he should be able to decide exactly what obscenity was.

Nevertheless, the ruling stood firm and became a precedent in other censor cases as the Ulysses case had done. Just after the ruling, Alfred Kazin observed that Lady Chatterly was out of date for 1959. Some of the contempory novels (the names of which he failed to mention) dealt with matters that made Lady Chatterly's Lover pale by comparison. "One was about necrophilia, another on sodomy between priests, a third on incest"(33). Kazin condemned the way people choose to ignore and repress what they are afraid of. He said, "There is something about the American mind that is quick to identify what it is afraid of or just ignorant of as immoral" (34). Sonya Rudikoff supported the novel and "the purgative effects of intentional frankness" (408).

It is likely that the first movie version from Paris added a new dimension to the trial. Arriving in America at approximately the same time as the unexpurgated version, the risque sex scenes evoked horror in the minds of people who were barely accustomed to the antics of Howdy Doody. This was one of the first and most deeply felt blows to U.S. film censorship that had yet come about. The state of New York had banned the film from public viewing, and controversy over the book caught the film in its whirlwind so that the case went to the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision regarding the film was as shocking as the ruling on the book. Our constitutional rights were being violated by New York, and as adults, we should be allowed to view the film if we so desire.

These two decisions serve as landmarks in the struggle for freedom of expression. They played a minor part in the sexual revolution of the sixties, and widespread open-mindedness. One must be careful not to go too far in measuring the degree of profundity these cases had on future generations. However, we can note that they served as precedents, and once they were established, there was no going back to equal days of suppressing ideas. The effects are still being felt today in that the mind set of the general public was totally altered. Perhaps the present push for nudity and violence on public television programs, such as N.Y.P.D Blue, has its roots in Lady Chatterly's Lover.

Whatever the effects of Lady Chaterly's Lover, America was at the forefront in making bold steps towards true liberty of thought. England followed in our footsteps almost immediately, and soon allowed the unexpurgated third version admittance to bookstores, this time to be put on shelves legally.

Indeed, the whole world felt the shock of Lady Chatterly. In Japan, the book stirred up as much trouble as it did in America, only there, the big trial came sooner. The unexpurgated edition of the novel was translated into Japanese by Sei Ito of Waseda University, and it appeared in Tokyo in the spring of 1950. At once, lawyers, civic leaders, authors, journalists, professors, publishers, and general readers created one of the biggest outrcries in Japan since World War II. In 1952 and 1953, trials resulted in the conviction of Hisajiro Koyama, the publisher. To obtain this conviction, the prosecution called on a long list of witnesses including the chairman of the Committee on the Regulation and Control of Cinema Ethics, the president of the Society for the Reform of Manners, and the chief of the Diet Library. Japan believed that Lawrence's purpose in Lady Chatterly's Lover was to encourage adultery and sexual promiscuity (Moore 29). They did not take into account the extreme differences in culture which pose great obstacle in understanding the motivations of people, even literary characters. Therefore, they were limited to begin with in their ability to comprehend why Mellors used colloquial, sometimes vulgar speech, and especially why Constance would meet with him for a secret rendezvous.

In China, governmental resistance against Lady Chatterly led to more than a conviction; it culminated in bloodshed. During the late sixties and early seventies, a period known to the Chinese as the Great Cultural Reformation, people were thrown in prison where they spent the remainder of their lives for possessing a copy of the forbidden book. It was and is considered a threat to the security of the state. In the 1990s, only the prominent are allowed to read the book, and they are only given this privilege once they have obtained a certificate signed by several superiors and stating that they will only use it for academic purposes. Otherwise, possession of the book will lead to a prison sentence. (Wang)

Elsewhere in the world, a `cleaner' version was published in Czekloslovokian, Danish, Polish, and Spanish by 1932. Hungarian followed in 1933, and Portuguese obtained a translation in 1938. Nowadays, virtually every language has a translation of one form of the novel or another.

One question still remains: What happened to the second version that Lawrence wrote and why was it not published instead of the first and third? Nothing "happened" to the version. Critics simply felt that the first and the last versions were of much higher literary quality. Apparently, the only printing of the second manuscript version is in Italian. Piero Nardi published this second version in an Italian translation by Carlo Izzo. Otherwise the version is unavailable (Draper 25).

Without a doubt, "few works by established authors have had as much difficulty getting published in full, unexpurgated form as the `shocking' version of Lady Chatterly's Lover" (Evans 145). Despite this difficulty, Lady Chatterly has taught us an important lesson in First Amendment rights. The bad side to the situation is that in blasting open the road to tolerance, Lawrence accidentally made it possible for a number of less skillful artists to slide into popularity right behind him. Yet this is part of America's philosophy. We want to have the right to see and read everything, even the cheesy works.

Thinking back on what might have happened if Lawrence had been satisfied with his first version, none of the censorship battles would have occurred. Similar battles might have developed over a different work of art or another, but Lawrence should be given a good deal of credit for opening up our minds to a more healthy view of sexuality. He took three times to get it right, and we should be glad that he did considering all that the novel has accomplished. From it we have partially learned the value of honesty.

Works Cited

American Library Association. National Union Catalog, pre-1956
Imprints. Vol. 382. London: Mansell, 1968-80.

Draper, R. P., ed. D. H. Lawrence: The Critical Heritage. London: Redwood Press Limited, 1972.

Evans, Bergen. "Lady Chatterley's Lover" Coronet. 12.2 (1959):
144-151.

Hazlitt, Henry. "Henry Hazlitt in Nation." Ed. R. P. Draper. D. H. Lawrence: The Critical Heritage. London: Redwood Press Limited, 1972.

Kazin, Alfred. "Lady Chatterley in America." Atlantic. 204 (1959): 33-36.

Lawrence, D. H. A Propos to Lady Chatterly's Lover. London: Mandrake Press, 1930.

Moore, Harry T. Sex Literature and Censorship. New York: Twayne Publishers, 1953.

Morris, John. "Fine and Imprisonment for Selling Lawrence's Book Lady Chatterly's Lover." Publisher's Weekly. 116 (1929): 263.

Rudikoff, Sonya. "D. H. Lawrence and Our Life Today: Re-reading Lady Chatterly's Lover." Commentary. 28 (1959): 408-13.

Schorer, Mark. Introduction. Lady Chatterly's Lover. By D. H. Lawrence. New York: Grove Press Inc., 1959.

Wang, Zhe. Personal interview. 20 November 1993.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.

You're far nicer than I am, Flaystus.
/ Moderator adam

[Faustus]

Defcon9 Stop posting nonscene just to see you own words.

Next time I just ban you.