OGG Vorbis audio stream in AVI container

[terence]

I am having trouble playing an AVI file.
By using GSpot, I can see that it has a DivX 5.0 video stream and a Ogg Vorbis (mode 1+) audio stream embedded in a AVI 1.0 (RIFF AVI) container.

My computer has codec for both DivX and Ogg Vorbis, so it has no problem playing DivX in any container or Ogg Vorbis in OGM container.

However, for some unknown reason, it can't play this file with Ogg Vorbis audio stream in a AVI 1.0 container. Can any one tell me why??
Does the encoding of this file violate any standards??

[Suntan]

I've never tried Vorbis in an AVI, but how do you know it is the vorbis in an AVI that is causing the problem? Could it just be a bad file for other reasons? (I assume you didn't mux it yourself)

Have you tried playing it in VLC or MPC? they use Their own splitters/codecs.

-Suntan

[terence]

Actually, I don't know for sure because I didn't make the file myself. This is the first time I see a file with vorbis in avi container. I suspect this is the reason because GSpot says "Unable to render the audio", and the fact that I had no problem with vorbis in OGM.

I didn't use MPC, but I did install Avi Splitter 1.0.0.3 (AVI Splitter for MPC). However, GSpot seem to be using the default AVI Splitter without even considering AviSplitter 1.0.0.3 as one of the possibility. I wish someone can tell me why.

[gastorgrab]

I think (i'm not 100% sure), that OggDshow will play only Vorbis Audio in MKV, Ogg, or Ogm containers. For AVI's you may need to install Vorbis ACM codec.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=525#comments

[terence]

I am very confused.
What's ACM codec? Isn't it used for compressing/encoding?
How does it help with playback??
What's the difference between ACM codec and directshow filter/decoder?

[gastorgrab]

Basically your PC has two types of Encoding / Decoding installed by default.

VFW codecs (Video For Windows) is Microsofts original way of doing things since Win 3.1. VirtualDub uses VFW codecs (Video), and ACM (don't know the acronym) for Audio, to encode and decode.

DirectShow is another interface, a later interface designed for Windows Media Player. Thats not to say that an application can't make use of DShow filters for Encoding or Decoding. Ulead Media Studio, and CyberLink PowerDirector install their own DShow filters, and are used for both encoding and decoding.

This part is a bit hazy for me, but, VFW codecs seem to deal with the individual bits of info in a Multimedia file, while DirectShow deals with the separate streams. (I'm sure someone here will set us both straight if this is wrong)

The OggDS package you installed is a DirectShow filter, and can't be used by VirtualDub (VDub only does VFW, and ACM).

The Vorbis-ACM codec CAN be used by VDub, but i have to question wheather or not it is a legal package (I didn't think you could put Vorbis audio in a AVI package). I thought that *.Ogg, and *.Ogm were created for this reason.

FYI - When DivX is installed, bot VFW codec, AND DirectShow filter (Decode Only) is installed. The same is true for most MPEG-4 codecs.

----edit-------

AVI is a container, but its limited by what types of compressed streams can be used, bot Audio, and Video.

OGG / OGM is a container, Vorbis is a type of audio compression.
If you installed OggDS, than you PC can both open a OGG / OGM container, and play the Vorbis audio stream inside. This set, or similar are usually referred to as "Ogg-Vorbis".

MKV / MKA is a container, that seems to include every type of compressed streams i can think of.

[terence]

gastorgrab, thanks a lot for your explainations.
I downloaded two files which have vorbis in AVI. These 2 files are shared by many people through bit torrent, so there must be a way to make and play these files regardless if they are "legal".

Now, it seems that for any AVI my computer can play, there exist corresponding VFW/ACM codecs.
e.g. VFW for DivX and Xvid, ACM for MP3, etc

So is it true that DirectShow filters only work for OGG/OGM/MKV/MKA but not AVI?
i.e. Must there be VFW/ACM codecs for video/audio streams in the AVI in order for it to play?

[gastorgrab]

gastorgrab, thanks a lot for your explainations.
I downloaded two files which have vorbis in AVI. These 2 files are shared by many people through bit torrent, so there must be a way to make and play these files regardless if they are "legal".

If you have OggDS installed then it should play if you put it in a OGM package. (VirtualDub-MOD, or OggMux)

Now, it seems that for any AVI my computer can play, there exist corresponding VFW/ACM codecs.
e.g. VFW for DivX and Xvid, ACM for MP3, etc

Almost. DirectShow does most of the playback stuff. Windows Media Player uses the DirectShow interface. You need the VFW codecs only to open the file in a VFW application like VirtualDub.

So is it true that DirectShow filters only work for OGG/OGM/MKV/MKA but not AVI?
i.e. Must there be VFW/ACM codecs for video/audio streams in the AVI in order for it to play?

DirectShow filters are ONE way of decoding OGG, MKV, AND AVI.

One Filter usually opens the package and another deals with the streams inside. For example; to decode AVI you need a AVI Splitter filter (comes with Windows), and then another filter decodes the Video stream, and yet another one decodes the audio. The Splitter filter, or Demultiplexor as its sometimes called, sets up the other two.

To encode with DirectShow you need a AVI muxer (multiplexer) which does the exact opposite. It takes the separate Audio, and Video streams and glues them together. Then an audio encoder filter, and a video encoder filter.

I just thought you wanted to convert it to something else. You might have an easier time playing the file if it was known to support the Vorbis format.
If you can get the thing to open in VirtualDubMod, you can set "Direct Stream Copy" and put the very same compressed streams in a OGM package (without reencoding). VirtualDub, and VirtualDubMod have the ability to copy the Audio and Video streams to another container without having to reencode the whole damn thing.

VirtualDub is a VFW application, so there must there be VFW/ACM codecs for video/audio streams in the AVI in order for it to open in VDub.

[danzeb]

VLC should be able to play a file with OGG audio.

Virtualdub Mod (not the regular Virtualdub) should be able to edit the file.

[celtic_druid]

Best bet for vorbis in avi would be ffmpeg since it is as far as I know the only app that can mux vorbis to avi. There were some attempts years ago including an ACM vorbis decoder (mentioned above) if it is such a file I would just delete it.

[jsm11482]

I had the same issue. Thanks everyone, installing the OggDS package worked for me!