Who really knows Audio?

[kissvid]

HI all,

I don't know who can help me hear but i I hope that someone can. I tape shows at a theater for the actors and they run me directly through their soundboard using the headphones out line directly into my camcorder. (I am using the Sony TRV-350 Digital 8 Cam by the way) The line is very very powerful and they have to turn it down next to nothing in order for me to record it properly. There are no input level controls within teh camcorder to adjust trhe input. If that nob is touched at all it makes it sound so distorted. (like it's way to powerful) It's so sensative. Does anyone know...for example if I was to hook up a mixer with it's own power supply like into a line input instead ...does anyone think that this problem would be regulated and i would have more flexible use with the volume controls from the mixer going directly to the camera? I hope this doesn't sound to confusing and I hope that some knows what I am talking about. Thanks in advance everyone.

Marc

[Cobra]

Put some resistors in the line - that will take the power down a fair bit depending on what resistors you use.

[kato51]

Sounds like the level control pot on the soundboard is dirty or has a short. You can try cleaning it up by moving the control back and forth from min to max a few times with your recorder disconnected. If that doesn't work, you can always get a inline headphone volume control extension you can get from places like Koss or Radioshack and try adjusting the level to the recorder using that level control.

[BJ_M]

the proper way would be to use a active direct box (preferably with a volume control - though these are expensive) or smaller mixer between the headphone out and line in of your camcorder - -as they are different levels completely .

something like the Rolls PM350B (cheap)

you could also build a resistor pad to attenuate the level and change the impedance .. not very hard to build ..

[kissvid]

Thank you for the help. I looked it up on the net and it looks like it is just the thing that will help me.

Marc

[Cornucopia]

Yes, one should NEVER use a headphone out signal as a source if you can help it!

What kind of mixer are they already using?

It's very possible that they may have additional outputs that are of appropriate level, that aren't being used. (Side comment: they may not know what they're doing, hint, hint)

For Example:
If I use my Mackie 1402 mixer, I would hook up the microphones to lines 1-6 at mike level, route them to the main output which would go to a PA. Or I could route them to the control room volume control, which can then be re-fed out to the main and the PA. This way, I have 2 separate level adjustments and 2 separate outputs (Control Room, and Main/PA). Each of these can be switched between +4 Pro level and -10 Consumer level. That allows for a variety of types of equipment to be able to interface with it.

Your camera has only an 1/8" mini (stereo?) microphone in jack, IIRC, and NO consumer line-level RCA jacks.
This make your job a little harder, cuz you should be receiving a signal that is a weak mike level, not consumer line level, nor pro line level, and ESPECIALLY not Headphone or Speaker level! (Which is what you've been getting)
Simple resistor-style level attenuators(makes lower) could be used in a pinch, but I wouldn't recommend it (has to do with impedance, hum-bucking, and maximum usable dynamic range). Go for either an in-line adapter, or if you know you'll be doing much live/field stuff, a level-switchable field mixer (we use Shure FP-33's but there are a number of good ones).

HTH,
Scott

[MOVIEGEEK]

You need a mixer board such as this one:
www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-600

[junkmalle]

You can use an attenuating cable or adaptor. Much cheaper than a mixer. Something like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=42-2152

or this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=42-2461

or this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=42-2559

[kissvid]

HI All,

I can't thank you all enough for the suggestions. I don't know what kind or board they are using to mix but it is quite large ...like a 32 track board. They have over 20 wireless mikes, and 12 stage mikes mixed in. The mix does come out beautiful in the theater but like I said the line is just too powerful for the input. I am contracted to do the season there so I will be doing this a lot and there is another scholl with a similar setup I will be needing the same assisitance. It seems so far that the rohms personal mixer might be the best solution. I'm going to the theater tomorrow and will check things out about other lines and model number. Thanks agin everyone.

Marc

[junkmalle]

Unless you have other reasons to have a mixer it's really overkill. Attenuating cables are 1/10 the cost and designed for exactly the problem you're having.

[BJ_M]

i suggested a (80$ portable micro mini) mixer because it gives him better control on the volume , he can monitor it local , that unit has excellent groundloop breaking , and he can now have a proper impedance match. the cable idea offers very few of these advantages and for the few $$ saved - not worth it -- use the right tool for the job .. a DI or in line transformer at the least (with attenuator) or a micro mixer ..

[kissvid]

Yeah...you see i tend to agree with you. Business ahs really picked up and I am really gonna be in this situation quite a bit. Plus I like the fact of being in control. It's a pain at times when I have to tell the sound guy...up...down...up...down...youknow then I become a pain. My oonly problem is which one to get. I am stuck between the suggested on this post. The rohms( sorry about the spelling) one and the europack. I'm leaning towrds the rohms but i would love to hear what you all have to say.

Marc.

[Cornucopia]

One of those mini mixers are always handy ways of retaining control, good just to have it in your arsenal. Make sure you do get one that is switchable w/ Mike or Line level(s) and get the right kind of adapter cable for your camera's input.

OTOH, if the sound guy's are using a 32 trk board, yet are having to resort to giving you a "headphone" feed, either they are just plain idiots or they are backhandedly insulting you.

(I say this from being a sound man for 20+ years)

Scott

[BJ_M]

Cornucopia is right -- it is hard to believe that they don't have an extra aux send or tape output . or just get a passive splitter on the output ..

[kissvid]

Yes I understand everything. I believe we did try other types of lines at the beginning but I did not recieve a signal. At least i know that the previous times that we were testing lines I was'nt recieving a asignal on. But I agree that I do need something. I like the Idea of the personl mixer. I did some searching and I founds the Rolls model...but i found it with a B in teh model number and I have seen it without the B on others. Any difference between the models?

Marc

[BJ_M]

with the b is the newer model ... i think it is balanced and the other one not -- or anyway it has some new feature now with tthe B model ..

[Alan69]

Yes, one should NEVER use a headphone out signal as a source if you can help it!

HTH,
Scott

Ditto that! It sounds like the 'out' you are using is amplified, not a line out. Amazing you haven't screwed you camcorder input with this.

Most 'audio' gear is pretty damn simple electronics. Almost guaranteed, there is a very simple IC amplifier hooked straight to the output you're using. Have any good tech look at it, and there is probably a line level type signal coming in to that amplifier. That is what should be hooked to your camera, not the signal after the amplifier. But if attenuating after the amplifier works well enough, then do that and don't worry about it.

Make sure you get something in there. Such inputs are protected but not that much, you are risking your camcorder's input. Anything's better than a dead camcorder..

Alan