I have to WAY off-topic questions...

[beavereater]

FIRST...what is valium, and what does it do. I searched for it online but it gets all technical on me. The reason I ask is because I keep hearing it in movies...then the other day my doc wanted to prescribe it to me for insomnia and I said "No...let's try something herbal" Mostly out of fear that it was addictive, since I saw it in movies so many times.

Second question...what is the point of dusting!? For the first time in my life I picked up a feather duster, and dusted of my TV, stereo and tables. All it does is throw it up in the air and eventually lands somewhere else. Or am I missing some kinda of technique (My girl does most of the cleaning)!?

[888888]

Valium is the brand name of Diazepam, a chemical in the group Benzodiazipines (I think I spelled that right). These drugs can be used in a variety of ways due to their depressant action. They have replaced Barbiturates which were the sleeping pills of choice decades ago. Valium is nothing to be afraid of and you are pretty lucky that your doctor is prescribing to you such a sought after pill. Valium is related to Xanax and Klonopin which are also used for anxiety, as sedatives, and for sleep.

Valium should not be addictive unless you really overdue it (take it every night for a year while upping the dose), and even then, it is nothing compared to Barbiturate addiction the withdrawl of which was sometimes fatal.


I dust all the time because it prevents objects from getting so dusty that the dust begins to stick. This happens when things are kept somewhere in the open for a long time. The dust collects and turns into dirt and then you have to wash the damn object. Dusting does throw around the dust but it usually throws it off your valuable stereo and onto the floor where you can vacuum it up.

I hope my answers were helpful.

[mrtristan]

Feather dusters are supposed to be slightly statically charged, and pick up at least some of the dust off the object. Use those Swiffer or Pledge wipes. They're very statically charged and pick up almost all the dust. I use them all the time at work and home.

[beavereater]

and you are pretty lucky that your doctor is prescribing to you such a sought after pill.

Why is it sought after...?? Does it really work!! Living in Japan limits my info to the internet, and with that, most sites have very technical information that I do not understand very well. I am always worried about side effects, mixing with other medicine (Like pain killers, or cold medicine) and getting info outta the doctor is not always easy since they can explain it in TECHNICAL Japanese...which I haven't grasped yet. I've been outta the loop for almost 6 years now. I don't know what's good and what's bad...so I try to stay away from everything!!

As for the dusting...I think I will let my lady deal with that from now on. It just pissed me off!!

[offline]

[quote]Why is it sought after...??[\quote]

Because it is "Mother's little helper"; a chill pill that takes
the edge off. It is addictive in the medium term and it
requires larger doses over time for the same effect.

You'd be better off trying Valerium (a herbal extract) but
stay away from chinese/japanese health stores or ones
that mention the name "homeopathy" - as their version
will not work.

A good combo for sleeplessness is Valerian extract, St John's
Wort and melatonin. See a western based chain store or online.

[beavereater]

I wish it were that easy...getting western stuff here is pretty hard. I checked the amount of valium the doc wanted to give me and it was like a 1/10 of what American's get prescribed. Its like that with most medicine here in Japan.

I never planned on staying so long, and only recently needed to go to the hospital, but just from friends stories about how useless the meds they get are, its almost worthwhile heading home for treatment of anything.

[Rookie64]

Xanax and Klonopin ARE addictive and you'll have a very hard time getting off of 'em - they also have different affects on people.
For some, they are a horror story and for others, they are a godsend.

Be very careful about taking drugs - and don't mix 'em with anything else.

[Devanshu]

I have to look at my notes from last year to bepositive...but here's what I think valium does:

Like 888888 said, it is a benzodiazepine. It mimics a neurtransmitter and makes it more efficient because it binds to receptors for the transmitter and opens chlorine channels which increases the concentration of Cl- ions in the neuron thus hyperolarizing it. This makes the neuron less excitable. Unlike barbiturates, they dont open the Cl- channels directly, but act more subtly by potentiating the effect of GABA(I think this this the neurotransmitter).

888888, I dont know where you get your info from because it is addictive, which is why its "sought after". It's used to treat anxiety-disorders and short term anxiety relif. An overdose can cause diminished reflexes, sleepiness, and even coma. It works like alcohol which is why it shouldnt be mixed with any other drugs(including alcohol).

Cobra and Virtualis would be good sources for this...this is all I could remember.

[DVD_Ripper]

If you recall Prince Vallium from the movie Space Balls.... Always yawning, always sleepy.

These will very much help you sleep.

Now, if you had said Qualude (sp) .... then you can throw a party (Vitamin Q -- six pack in a pill)

[CoasterCreator]

yes these this are very addictive ....its like alcohol you develop a tolerance and that is why you need more and more to have the same effect. My 2 cents would be to do some exercise, to the point you tire yourself out that you are forced to sleep to regain your energy or if its a must olny take a little and then stop

Unless you want to make coasters for the rest of your life like me

[888888]

I never said it was not addictive, only that is was not as addictive as some alternatives like barbiturates. Basically, anything that makes you fall asleep has the possibility of being addictive. My point is that if you are careful and use medicine wisely, you should not get addicted. If you feel you have become completely dependant on it to fall asleep, then you should propbably stop. You can try Ambien which works well and is not a sedative like Valium.

As for herbal solutions, I think that that is (usually) a load of crap. I remember going to the doctor because I had heartburn every day no matter what I ate (acid reflux disease). I asked her if she could prescribe me Prilosec or Nexium or something. She insisted that I should try an herbal solution instead and prescribed me St. John's Wort. The St. John's Wort of course did jack squat and I continued to suffer. Thankfully, Prilosec OTC came out and now I use that generic version daily. The non-herbal option really works and it has improved my life greatly because I no longer have to eat antacids every two hours.

[offline]

888888,

St Johns Wort is one of a the few herbal treatments that
have passed double blind tests wiith a greator than 60%
positive. This is higher than any SSRI ( e.g. Prozac) and
equal to many spoforics (e.g. Mogadon)

Just because it did not work for you, does not mean it
is crap. Thousands world wide are enjoying it's benifits.

@ Devanshu

If hyper polariziation occurs via the chlorine channel, as your
notes state, would this not increase the action potential
and if so, how would you explain the effect
on smooth muscle cells?

[Devanshu]

If hyper polariziation occurs via the chlorine channel, as your notes state, would this not increase the action potential and if so, how would you explain the effect on smooth muscle cells?

This wasnt from my notes...it was off the top of my head.

If the cell is more negative than it already is, then it makes the cell less irritable(unable to respond to a stimulus). Hyperpolarization, if you recall, is dropping the resting membrane potential through the loss of too much K+ or gain of Cl- ions. Now the threshold is farther than it was initially so it'll be harder to excite. Basically, it's a huge IPSP(inhibitory post synaptic potential). So it would decrease the amount of action potentials generated.

[William Hayburn]

Your first question should have been how to spell two.

[Devanshu]

I was bored so I drew some pictures





At first, the difference in the two membrane potentials was only 15 mV...but since the membrane is now more negative than it was intially, it takes more energy to excite the neuron. Of course there are other factors at play, but this should answer your question.

[offline]

Yes I understood your explanation. I was stuck thinking GABA and muscle
cells???!!. Nice drawings though So, given its action, valium would be one
of the last drugs on the list that should be given for sleeplessness?

[beavereater]

Well...I must say, interesting answers...but what about my dusting question!! That didn't much of a reply!!??

[888888]

Well...I must say, interesting answers...but what about my dusting question!! That didn't much of a reply!!??

Hey, I gave a thorough answer to your dusting question. Gimme some credit!

[beavereater]

Sorry...you did...

THANKS to 888888!! PEACE!!

Actually, the 2 questions hit me at the same time and I was just too lazy to put them in 2 different posts. Afterwards I realized the valium question would be something that would be of more interest to people.

Thanks to all though...going non-valium way!!

[offline]

I remember when the 1st proton pump inhibitor
came out. It was v.expensive. I had ulcers and
erosions and no herbal remedy was helpful. I managed to get a PPI on trial and it helped alot.

About the same time an Australian Dr discovered the bactirum behind ulcers. I asked for a two week
dose of erythromycin. 10 days later I was healing
up.

To think I went through several years of pain
and was told by one specialist to see a shrink.

[fmctm1sw]

(My girl does most of the cleaning)!?

Then what are you bitching about? Need a depressent, drink lots of

[Capmaster]

I remember when the 1st proton pump inhibitor
came out. It was v.expensive. I had ulcers and
erosions and no herbal remedy was helpful. I managed to get a PPI on trial and it helped alot.

About the same time an Australian Dr discovered the bactirum behind ulcers. I asked for a two week
dose of erythromycin. 10 days later I was healing
up.

To think I went through several years of pain
and was told by one specialist to see a shrink.

After I turned 40 I started developing GERD. Offline, you probably know what it is and what it feels like, judging by your experience. It's no fun. I'd be walking across the room and get doubled-over with the sudden pain ...like I had been stabbed.

It's Gastro-Esophageal Reflux Disease - basically the opening at the top of the stomach loses its ability to close all the way and corrosive stomach acids and enzymes flow up into the esophagus, causing unbelievably bad heartburn, and could lead to cancer there if the cells decide to start turning themselves into stomach cells as a response to the damage.

There are several treatments - one where they lower a microwave emitter down your throat and induce RF burns in the tissue, causing it to scar and pucker - closing the stomach opening more. Another is surgery where they tie a "drawstring" around the top of the stomach and "cinch it up". Neither sounded appealing to me, so I lived on Tagamet and antacid tablets. Doctors usually won't prescribe a PPI until you see a gastroenterologist first and have an endoscopy performed ...another procedure not high on my list of things I want.

Then ....Prilosec got approval to sell it's same-named PPI over the counter ..at the same strength as the prescription .... a year ago. <choir chorus> Haaaa .....la ......lu ...jah!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been taking one a day before supper since then and I can't even remember what heartburn feels like. What excellent stuff that is!

[Devanshu]

So, given its action, valium would be oneof the last drugs on the list that should be given for sleeplessness?

It's a muscle relaxing agent. If the mucles cant be irritated, then you feel "high". So yeah, it can be given for sleeplessness but I think it should be given for severe insomnia.

[beavereater]

(My girl does most of the cleaning)!?

Then what are you bitching about? Need a depressent, drink lots of

I know...but she doesn't usually give a shit about MY stuff, like my speakers or anything, so I decided to give it a try. I quit and left a note:

Dear Mrs. Beave,

You missed a few spots.

Mr. Beave

So, given its action, valium would be oneof the last drugs on the list that should be given for sleeplessness?

It's a muscle relaxing agent. If the mucles cant be irritated, then you feel "high". So yeah, it can be given for sleeplessness but I think it should be given for severe insomnia.

Anyway, sorry for the late reply...just wondering what you would consider severe insomnia? In your opinion that is...I mean, I've taken sleeping aids, they make me yawn, thats about it, and I fall asleep at 5am in the morning. The last thing I usually see is videohel....something or other!??

[vitualis]

Diazepam is addictive and it wouldn't be my drug of choice for sleeplessness though it can be used in that setting. The issue is that it has a fairly long half-life and you may well wake up still somewhat sedated. For most people, the difficult is in initiating sleep. In Australia at least, the shorter acting benzodiazepines (BZD) are more commonly used (e.g., temazepam, oxazepam).

In the hospital setting, I generally do not have any issue with prescribing a BZD for sleep simply because I know that the patient won't be getting for any long period of time and they won't be taking it home with them. The chance for addiction is low. In the community setting, I would be much more wary in prescribing a BZD simply because you don't know how people are going to use it. BZD can and are abused - quite commonly in fact.

The newer "Z" drugs (e.g., zolpidem) are supposed to have less of the problems of the BZD but recent studies would imply that they are no better than the traditional BZDs. That being said, they are still quite good medications for the use in short term insomnia.

There are quite a lot of alternatives to benzodiazepines for insomnia. I noticed that people have been mentioning barbiturates in this thread. These older medications have really fallen to the wayside since the release of BZDs as BZDs are much safer to use. Apart from benzos, you can use sedating antihistamines (e.g., promethazine), a small nightly dose of a tricyclic antidepressant or even a low nightly dose of an antipsychotic (e.g., olanzapine, quetiapine) though it wouldn't be most people's medication of choice.

There are of course non-pharmacological options too. You have to look at exactly why you are having difficulty sleeping. If you simply aren't sleepy, then you shouldn't be in bed trying to sleep. This can set up a cognitive framework where you don't expect to sleep in bed. An interesting finding for some people with chronic insomnia is that they often get much better sleep in an observed sleep study (i.e., sleeping in an unfamiliar setting) than at home! You don't want to set up that sort of pattern. If you can't get to sleep, the best option is to get up and do something (like read) in another room until you are tired.

For some people, a glass of warm milk and honey works too.

As for St John's Wort, yes, it is effect for mild to moderate depression. However, it should be noted that ALL effective treatments for mild to moderate depression are no better than regular structured counselling. If you are going to use St John's Wort, I would suggest that you use it under the advice of your family doctor. The reason it works is because it is pharmacologically active. Because it is "natural" doesn't mean it is safer. A good proportion of all Western pharmaceuticals are identified from "natural" sources. Just like you shouldn't use an antidepressent like fluoxetine (i.e., Prozac) without advice, you shouldn't use St John's Wort in that fashion either.

For major depression, I definitely would not be using St John's Wort.

The following except is from: Linde K, Mulrow CD. St John's wort for depression (Cochrane Review). In: The Cochrane Library, Issue 3, 2004. Chichester, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
... from the Cochrane Database of Systematic Review.

Implications for practice

Although there is evidence that hypericum can be useful in patients with depressive disorders, it is difficult to base solid recommendations on currently available evidence from randomized controlled trials. The heterogeneity of trial participants and interventions limit the conclusiveness of the data. While more evidence clearly is needed, the short term use of hypericum might be valuable in less severe forms of depressive disorders as an alternative to watchful waiting or the commonly used approach of low doses (of doubtful efficacy) of tricyclic antidepressants. In general practice these less severe forms of depressions are more frequent than major depression [Kendrick 1996]. Available data indicate that hypericum has less shortterm side effects than tricyclic antidepressants; comparisons with newer and more expensive drugs such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors do not yet exist. Since most studies had short observation periods, long term treatment (over six weeks) cannot be recommended based on currently available data. Data are also insufficent to recommend hypericum for more severe forms of depression.

A pragmatic factor that strongly influences recommendations concerning hypericum is the availablility of particular hypericum preparations. The preparations tested in the summarized randomized controlled trials are all extracts prepared according to the German monograph for this herb. Physicians who want to prescribe hypericum should be aware that preparations might differ considerably in their content of potentially active ingredients. It is difficult to separate high quality and low quality preparations. A preparation should give the following information [Zündorf 1997]:
- exact designation of the extract;
- the amount of extract;
- the plant-extract ratio;
- type and concentration of the extraction medium;
- eventually the amount of hypericins (and the method of analysis).

Self-medication and prescription characteristics for hypericum vary between different countries. While self-medication also has a role in Germany, hypericum has been prescribed over years by a large number of general practitioners and a growing number of psychiatrists for depressive disorders. As other plant products it is considered a drug. In many other countries a more widespread use of hypericum is only recent; products are marketed as food supplements mainly for self medication. Patients might use hypericum without the knowledge of their doctor and parallel to or instead of prescribed antidepressants. Such uncontrolled self-medication is a matter of concern in a condition like depression where hypericum should only be used under the supervision of a competent health care provider.

Best regards.

[Conquest10]

No more kitty, Mike?

[vitualis]

I can't find the original GIF file...

Regards.

[vitualis]

St Johns Wort is one of a the few herbal treatments that
have passed double blind tests wiith a greator than 60%
positive. This is higher than any SSRI ( e.g. Prozac) and
equal to many spoforics (e.g. Mogadon)

Double-blind tests for what...?

You don't use SSRI's in insomnia and you don't use Mogadon (a benzodiazepine) in depression.

Regards.

[beavereater]

hmmm...Virtualis you are right, I just can't initiate sleep. Staying asleep is pretty easy though. Anyway, I workout...tire myself out, jog on non-workout days and tire myself out. I go to the big hotsprings near my place, relax...but nothing works. I hate meds, that's why I turned down the valium. However, this has been happening for more than a year. Sleeping at work though..that's easy...or when the gf wants to "talk" ...I can passout pretty quick. As for reading a book, or doing something until you get tired, hate to say it, but it doesn't work. I get online and I always find something to do. TV, always something interesting, reading...I read good books that I can't put down. Maybe I need a new hobby. Alcohol is also pretty effective, but with working out, I can't consume as much as I used to. Anyway, here's hoping for a natural solution...

[vitualis]

It sounds like you may have disturbed your day-night cycle.

Try setting a strict "bed time" and try taking a sleeping tablet. Then, during the day, make a conscious effort NOT to sleep or rest, etc.

Don't use the sleeping tablet for any protracted period of time (i.e., nightly for more than a week).

Regards.