Programmers, erase your time locks!!! And fix other stuff!!

[overloaded_ide]

This to any and all programers using time locks and other methods to shut down the trialware versions after a set period of time and such.

Please find a way to erase those locks after the program is deleted!!
Many of you are probably losing alot of money because of those!

Example might be DVD-lab. I tried it once, in my case soon as I installed it I got busy, went away and never had time to even look at the program other than the first day really. It might be something I would buy?
It looked interesting, but I never really saw what it could do, and since I have other programs I never bought it. I just do without!

Other cases are program upgrades. Ok if I install your program and I do not like it, I won't buy it right! But then you come out with Version 2.??
Ok I might like that one, but when I download it to try, I get a time expired message on that new version also that I have never seen!
Ok, not gonna buy that one either!
DVDshrink is free, but as an example of how programs change, the currant version is much different than say 2.3! OK I do have programs that are trialware that are like that, I did not like say 2.3, now the currant version is also locked! But the currant version is nothing like 2.3 and I might buy that one!
I only use shrink as an example because so many know it. A great program, and I am using 2.3 and 3beta5 still.

And trialware that is not producing a useable product is worthless!! I won't buy those either! Like I recently tried some converter from Boilsoft. Well it sort of worked, but then the Video has BOILSOFT UNREGISTERED right in the middle of the video all the way through. It took forever to convert that little asf file to a mpeg, the settings weren't useable, video not useable, and I'll be darned if I'll waist my time trying agian when I won't even be able to use the output for anything.
More is involved than just coverting the file, like will my other programs use the file after conversion. What's the actuall final result gonna be after everything is done.
$20 to register I couldn't care less about the $20, but I still didn't find out if I can use it, I just deleted it too!

And how about the file names??? Sure maybe you guys writting 24ndgs.zip
know exactly what that is, but ever think about us end users??? I got 50 files like that at least! Some I have paid to register even!
Now when I am looking for a certain program in that mess of file names how the heck do I know what 24nds.zip is compared to 489hds.zip????
And don't just say rename them. That creates the problem of not knowing if I already have a file the next time I go to download it. It should have a useable name that tells what it is when it is downloaded!

Try thinking about those of us that DO buy your software more!!! After all it's MY money you want!! Make it easier for me to give it to you!!!
And don't forget my freinds!! They spend money too! And your wanting it also, so make those files I download have names I know what they are!! When a friend wants a program I have a trialware version of, He buys it if he likes it! If I can't find it because it is named 875jkghui.zip he ain't gonna get it, and won't be buying it!!

Many people are writting great progams, and thanks for the very many great free ones too!!! And high quality lowcost programs are all around, thanks again! But please think about the things I mentioned too. If your trying to get money and the above things applie, then your not getting as much as you could be! And this goes just as much for the programs that are free but ask for a donation to help support them. I donate many places for many reasons at times. Make it easy!!!

Also stop thinking every computer in the world is connected to the NET!! Absolutely NO WAY my main systems ever will be even for a second!!
That means I cannot BUY/upgrade Tmpgenc DVD Author!!! They say it only takes a minute, and it HAS to be connected to the NET occasioanly to keep it working. Well that leaves ME out doesn't it!!!! Really pissed on that one!! And I was going to buy additonal copy/licesnse for another system too! SO ya, that one definately has lost them sales!!!
I cannot upgrade to newer versions now or buy a new one either, it only takes a second to get hammered with NET trash that will destroy a system!
Not taking the chance on 4 of mine!! In the last 2 minutes alone my firewall poped 5 warnings, just while I was typing this! Why should my workng systems be connected at all for any reason?? And then I have to fight all the security crap. No keep em off the net and forget about the security problems, No connections, no Hacks!!
Ya sure I have ONE system connected to the net at home and 2 at the office. But the ones I work on ARE NOT!!

[indolikaa]

Completely and without question disagree.


Just take a stroll over to WinMX or KaZaa and you'll see why programmers are getting aggressive with their limitation codings.

[lordsmurf]

I would have to agree to an extent. People that want to pirate will find a way. Those that may want to buy it, are the ones that suffer.

That Pegasys net timer thing is by far most retarded. There are already plenty of bypass cracks for that.

I don't respect DVD-Lab because they spend too much time on new features in betas that quickly expire, and not enough time actually fixing old errors and providing software for sale (Pro version, anybody?).

[indolikaa]

I don't respect DVD-Lab because they spend too much time on new features in betas that quickly expire, and not enough time actually fixing old errors and providing software for sale (Pro version, anybody?).

Point.

[sterno]

Anybody else remember the days of copy-protected floppies? That idea died once companies realized that (a) they weren't actually stopping anybody from making copies and (b) they were pissing off the people who actually bought the software.

[overloaded_ide]

There are already plenty of bypass cracks for that.

Yes, and if it were not for violating the rules I would ask directly about getting one too!! After all, if I buy a program and am told I have the right to future upgrades for it, then I have the right to use that program with the newest features, BUT since I will not connect that system to the NET I cannot upgrade to the newest version! That means if I start burning DL media the program becomes useless to me, even though I bought it, since only the newer versions have DL support I beleave. Sure I can still author my disks, but I use that built in burner for everything!!!

Copy protections only harrass the Honest paying people and stop a few ignorant people for awhile. Like MS and others stupid number codes you have to enter durring program install. ANY pirate is smart enough to just write the number on the disk copy, so other than harrassing us that bought it, what purpose does it serve?? And no, tracking the source is not an answer! I have legally purchased software and legal codes but no one knows who the owner is or where they went except me, the owner!!

Anybody else remember the days of copy-protected floppies? That idea died once companies realized that (a) they weren't actually stopping anybody from making copies and (b) they were pissing off the people who actually bought the software.

YES!!! And although I bought the first 2 of 5 games I never bought the rest of them because the copy protections pissed me off!! Another case of running away paying clients!! I think it was Sierra that produced Liesure Suit Larry and others, protections were so bad on a couple versions I never bought the rest! Other games also by them, same way! It got so I looked at a game I wanted and if the name Sierra was on the package it went back on the shelf, I didn't care if it was a $20 game on closeout for $3 I would not buy it!!
But absolutley no problem finding the hacked versions, though I didn't mess with those either.

stroll over to ?????? or !!!!! and you'll see why programmers are getting aggressive with their limitation codings

It's not so much the limit, it's the fact that once you look at version 1.2 and do not like it they basically are saying "Ok we don't want you to buy any future version Either"! That is just plain stupid really! I mean why make newer versions and stick them out as trialware if you don't want people to try them?? Just stick Version 1.2 out there and if they don't like that one forget it, save the late and great Version 4.9 for only those that bought the program to upgrade to.

By not deleting those time locks, that is basically what they are doing!! Yea, you don't want someone just installing the same version every 30 days as a new install just to by pass the expired time locks, but version 1.5 should delete the expired time locks for Version 1.2 and such.
Just because I did not like the early version and did not buy it, does not mean I will not like the new and improved version. After all, if it's a new version then it should either have new features or bugs have been fixed or both. If that is the case then perhaps whatever reason I choose to not buy it the first time has also been fixed!

Take Tmpgenc DVD Author for example, the first version I tried did not have any built in burner! But having tried that version first the time lock prevents us from trying the newer versions that do have the built in burner. Just that one feature may be what makes or breaks the choice to buy the program for some people.

And the point about trialware that does not work, well that defeats the purpose of trialware, to see if it is of use and does what you need!
Piss me off doing a 20 minute download, 50 minute proccessing of a file, and then ruin it like BoilSOft all over the screen you just waisted my time for nothing and won't be getting MY $20!! First test was not useable results for me, and I never tried again because the end product was not worth trying to encode or author even if it did work. So I would not actually ever find out if the file was any good to me anyway. WasteWare is what that one was to me, waste of my time.

I just use the Boilsoft as an examlple as it was the most recent. Kinda like those NET SPEED programs and system fixers that used to be everywhere!
Download for 30 minutes or more, they claim to fix all kinds of things, then the results are dumb claims This is what would be fixed if the program acttually worked, and this is the speed you would see after words! They could just have you download that bunch of false claims page as a .jpg quickly and it would have been the same thing!

I do alot with images, and doing custom T-shirts (profesional heat transfers, not iron ons) I need to blow images up often, like 35mm print from 1 hour photo to a 8"X10". So I found a program costing TONS claiming to use a specail processing methode to do such things. Claims to be fully working demo. Download for about an hour or more, learn the program enough to use it expecting a decetn result, and the blown up image has "SAMPLE" stuck in it about 20 times in big letters so I can't even see much of the image to check the quality. Sure not going to print that and stick it on a Shirt to see how it looks!! So another deleted program I might otherwise have spent alot of money on!!

And what about those Desktop Publishing programs claiming to be fully working trialware, would take days or weeks to learn enough about the program to get decent results if your not experienced already, and the program does not print or save files!!! Fully working??? Ya, in the PC it does everything so you could learn to use the commands and see various features, but no way to check the quality of the output which is just as important, or even more so.

Those are the programmers and compaines I complain about. Fact is if they are so worried about pirates or someone will get a little use from a program without spending any money, they should get out of the trialware business an just have wal-mart sell the crap....

For those that DO respect trailware/shareware try before you buy principles I say "THANK YOU"!!
Many great programs are out there that do work fully and are useable for a short time, or maybe advanced features diasbled but all the important stuff works. And the results are useable and not a waste of time trying. SO thanks!

It's just the others giving it a bad experience!!

[Ufit]

That's a BIG-lot of coding. First, u must authorize the drive, then identify,parse and separate transport and program layer packets,then make streams and substreams from all that and finally decrypt them.
I'm not so deep in to it but consider a decryption on packets layer too.
You can find some source codes on doom9 or just use google.)
Well good luck!

[Sabro]

As I programmer, I can relate to both ends here... Up until recently, I always released my programs for free, kinda believing in the u*ix way of life, however, made some personal decisions and decided to sell em.

You are correct in saying it sucks when a pgm expires and a new version comes out and ya cant use it because the 'trial' for the older version has expired. This is plain lazyness on the programmer or company, and not that I condone 'cracks' but why ya see one crack for all versions working on their program.....They never changed the protection scheme....lazy!

Honestly, I dont feel removing the time lock when uninstalling is always the best plan, cause it merely allows them to reinstall and use use use.

I dont' wanna get in to a big discussion of the inner workings of my program, or any others, but its very simple from the programmer aspect, to have a working time lock feature, revise it for every version (so the end user doesnt get stuck) and not clutter up your system with useless nonsense... Everything can be broken, YES, tis a fact of life....but the time locks help keep people honest, but programmers do need to become alil bit more 'un-lazy' when doing such things.

Sabro

[TheUnknownComic]

I fully agree with the original post of this thread.

Expiration dates are not the way to go. They should use the "29 uses remaining" method. Not every user is going to play with a new program heavily immediately after downloading it. They may not have that many projects going to experiment with. Other things can pop up that are more important.

As for the newer-version problem, the program's expiration entry should also contain a version number.

I also really hate the file name problem. I've downloaded countless programs with useless names that don't tell you much of anything. What I usually do is keep the original file name, but add something to the beginning, separated by a hyphen. So if it was something like DVDWidget and the file name was 32517.zip then I'd download it and rename it as DVDWidget-32517.zip. But still, why would any author release a file with a silly name like 32517.zip or SetUp.exe?

[jimmalenko]

I feel torn between my personal view as a consumer and my professional view as a programmer. I agree that the current system utilised by Pegasys is less than ideal, considering there are still quite a few people that won't touch the internet at home with a 10ft barge pole. That said, internet-only activation is becoming more and more prevalent as there has always been ways to generate valid serial numbers if you go the Name/Serial route.

I agree with the idea of full functionality during trial periods. That is what the trial is for IMO - to see the full capabilities of software that you are going to hand over your hard-earned for. As for number of uses remaining, my only concern with this is that the number has to be stored somewhere (file or registry). This opens it up to simple mods to circumvent it, but I guess it's the same with a day trial period at the moment.

Perhaps one way to get around the issue where an earlier expired version prohibits installation of a later version, why not impose a 60 or 90 day ban from when the earlier version expires before a later trial version can be installed ?

[overloaded_ide]

Honestly, I dont feel removing the time lock when uninstalling is always the best plan, cause it merely allows them to reinstall and use use use.

I dont' wanna get in to a big discussion of the inner workings of my program, or any others, but its very simple from the programmer aspect, to have a working time lock feature, revise it for every version (so the end user doesnt get stuck) and not clutter up your system with useless nonsense... Everything can be broken, YES, tis a fact of life....but the time locks help keep people honest, but programmers do need to become alil bit more 'un-lazy' when doing such things.

Well, maybe not removing the lock as soon as the program un-installs, as that could lead to people just un-installing and installing every 30 days or what ever. But yes the file could expire/self delete after 45-90 days or so.
But it should be removed at some point. And it should be a simple matter for Version 2 to look and see if a Version 1 time lock exists and if so then delete it, or at least modify it so Version 2 does have the trial period.

Expiration dates are not the way to go. They should use the "29 uses remaining" method. Not every user is going to play with a new program heavily immediately after downloading it. They may not have that many projects going to experiment with. Other things can pop up that are more important.

As for the newer-version problem, the program's expiration entry should also contain a version number.

Yes. But even that has some problems but is better I geuss. And still that needs to be reset when a new version comes out too. I had a program using the 29 uses idea, it was worse than the 30 day because the program was conflicking with something else on the system and crashing. So by the time I figured out how to stop the crashes I had like 5 uses left. Used up the first 25 in 3 days tring to figure out why the program was crashing!! After about 5 minutes it gave an error and closed!

I feel torn between my personal view as a consumer and my professional view as a programmer. I agree that the current system utilised by Pegasys is less than ideal, considering there are still quite a few people that won't touch the internet at home with a 10ft barge pole. That said, internet-only activation is becoming more and more prevalent as there has always been ways to generate valid serial numbers if you go the Name/Serial route.

I agree with the idea of full functionality during trial periods. That is what the trial is for IMO - to see the full capabilities of software that you are going to hand over your hard-earned for. As for number of uses remaining, my only concern with this is that the number has to be stored somewhere (file or registry). This opens it up to simple mods to circumvent it, but I guess it's the same with a day trial period at the moment.

Perhaps one way to get around the issue where an earlier expired version prohibits installation of a later version, why not impose a 60 or 90 day ban from when the earlier version expires before a later trial version can be installed ?

Anything can be circumvented/cracked/ or hacked! Even the net activations can be cracked, so why bother with it and lose real sales??

You are correct many of us won't touch the NET with some of our systems, so anything that requires NET connection will not even be tried let alone bought!
Really good example of a company losing money and sales. I think it was PINACLE that had a capture device I was going to buy at Best BUY. Looking it over for details I saw NET connection required for activation. I put it back on the shelf and they LOST $100 sale at that moment! I had spent about 30 minutes deciding between 2 products and had decided on thiers till I saw that. I ended up buying something totally different not even capture related with the $100 plus more.
So net activation or anything like that is going to lose sales, period! It already has stopped me from buying several things. I spend alot of money!!

The actual best thing to do is keep the BUYING people happy as you can so they will buy more, not chase them away worrying so much that a few people might get a little free use from a program.

Sure I agree you don't want to just give all your programs away free, and why should some people get it free and others have to pay, right. But chasing away the people with the money to spend trying to stop some guy that probably would not buy it anyway from getting alittle free use is not the right answer either!

Somehow you have to try to balance keep me happy and get MY money with stopping scumbag Joe from stealing the program. Since most scumbag Joes ain't going to buy anything, then the most concentration should be getting MY MONEY since I will buy it.

As a side note also, I have on occasion installed the same program (with locks) 3-4 times and got full use of it. Then I bought them! Yes, I broke the lock one way or another several times (not warez, legally )
THEN after knowing I could use it free forever, I BOUGHT the program!

WHY you ask?? Well first time I either did not like it, it did not work correctly, I did not have time to try it, or I simply decided it was not something I needed.
Latter I see it sitting in the zip folder and thought I wonder if I could use that now for anything. Maybe I could, if so I bought it then. If not I never used it or bought it, but then latter same thing again.
At least 3 programs I have bought I have done that with. 1 other program I bought, the programer actually sent me a program to reset the timelock himself after I explained in a nice e-mail I never got to try the program do to other factors. So I could have actually reset the program probably forever with the little program he sent me, but I actually sent him the money and bought it about 5-7 days after trying it again.

I ain't claiming to be no saint here, but it's the somewhat honest people like me you are gonna get the money from! Don't lock us out or chase us away!

[Capmaster]

As a side note also, I have on occasion installed the same program (with locks) 3-4 times and got full use of it. Then I bought them! Yes, I broke the lock one way or another several times (not warez, legally )
THEN after knowing I could use it free forever, I BOUGHT the program!

If you circumvent the usage restrictions placed there by the author, it is warez. By mentioning it here, you are advocating it. This is an informal warning to not advocate warez.

Forum AUP forbids advocating warez. Thread locked.