Copying rented/borrowed poll

[Capmaster]

Hello infallible. Infallible here

[indolikaa]

To error is human, to go and **** it up some more is the Indolikaa Way.

[gitreel]

Hello infallible. Infallible here

Nice to meet you, infallible.

[gitreel]

To error is human, to go and **** it up some more is the Indolikaa Way.

There are multitudes of people that do it your way.

They use aol.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Hello infallible. Infallible here

I thought that was "inflatible"??? :P

Kevin

[indolikaa]

And on that note, remember kids...

If it ain't fixed, go and **** it up some more!


This has been a public service message brought to you by Indolikaa Khan.

[jimmalenko]

... whose son once dated the guy ...

a bit of boy-on-boy action there ?

[jimmalenko]

The poll specifically said "do not discuss it ...just vote anonymously". But ...as with all threads, there are those who can't read the instructions, and I could see a flame war breaking out eventually. I decided it was best to pull it.

I may be biased, but ....


RTFM NOOB !

[Capmaster]

Hello,

Hello infallible. Infallible here

I thought that was "inflatible"??? :P

Kevin

Typo

Head of nail: Meet Jimmalenko's hammer

[indolikaa]

... whose son once dated the guy ...

a bit of boy-on-boy action there ?

You're so weak. I was expecting you to connect the dots and infer something from it, like perhaps...

ALL MODERATORS ARE GAY!

Or something like that.

[jimmalenko]

... Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

[gll99]

Jimmalenko

... Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

Seinfeld would agree with that

Capmaster:
My previous comment is based on this:

From the AUP and Backup conditions:

Fair use DOES NOT APPLY TO rentals or borrowed media.

The heading of the poll is

copying rental/borrowed poll.

The likelyhood that someone intended to poll someone's wedding videos or public domain material would be quite a stretch.

I know it's a judgement call. I just said how I would call it and why.




[/quote]

[overloaded_ide]

You know I think I heard it reffered too as time shifting, when you record a TV show you cannot watch at that time so that you can watch it later.

Now I think that "SHOULD" apply also to Rentals! My local store rents new releases on Monday and Wendsday for half price basically. $3, but you rent one you get the second free, but it's only a one day rental and has to be back by 6pm the next day!

So now we have the fact that I have 2 movies running total of 3 hours on a week night. I can't get the kid to the rental store any earlier than about 5pm, 9pm is bed time, so that gives her 4 hours to get a bath, do home work, clean room ect..., not really time for 3 hours of movies on a school night then. SOOOO, if I were to "TIME SHIFT" those cheap rentals to the weekend by making a backup, is that not exactly the same thing as recording it from TV?? OK, TV cuts alot out and adds comercials that I would cut out. Everyone talks so much out in the open about recording TV, it is exceptable and it is legal. So what is the differnce between waiting for the movie to be aired on TV or "time shifting" the rental???
Not that I would do that myself

As far as anything to do with money, well in a couple months it's not new anymore so either I am being ripped latter for $3 when it is old if the price don't go down, or I am being ripped now since it is a $1 rental latter. Also when not NEW any more it is a 2 day rental for $1. At that rate I am paying $3 a day now or 50 cents a day latter, and no matter what it is still the same exact product!! So using that logic I am not cheating anyone out of any money if I rent while cheap and watch on nights it's high for rental prices, as they use the same "LOGIC" for setting prices based on new or old at the store!

Then of course as with TV shows, when time shifting are we supposed to delete it after viewing it or not?? I don't think anyone ever says anything about that??
Frankly I don't really do that, I buy alot of movies, but most the time I do wait for the price to drop instead of buying the day they come out.

I hadn't even rented a movie for a really long time till about 2 weeks ago I geuss. Kid wanted to buy some of the used posters and while we were there I found out about the rent one, get one free days. I'll spend $1.50 each on new rentals, but not $3 each. Why rent Scooby Doo 2 for $3 when I can buy it for $20??? And had I known Wal-mart was selling them the same day the rental store got it, I would not have rented it for the $1.50 either since I knew I was gonna buy it anyway.

Now we get one for her/us to watch and one I watch later at night. But then what about the wife? She works 12hr days on 3rd shift! She's at work when we rent, sleeps durring the day after work, no time to watch the movies before work when she gets up either. Wouldn't that time shifting applie here now so that she can watch the same movies the kid and I watch?? Sure as heck ain't gonna rent the same movies 2 times in the same week! And also the cheap rentals are not nights she has off either so that's the high priced movies again!
So far not a problem, 1 we normally watch movies she does not like anyway durring the week, and 2 we have better things to do normally than sit in front of a TV all weekend.

One more thought about this time shifting basis. Just like TV you gotta get it when it's available! Everyone wants movies on the weekend it seems (except us) so New releases are not available to us then because by the time we get to the store some-one else has rented them already. So same thing as having to watch TV when the show/movie is available to watch or record. You have to get it when available and "Time Shift" to when you can watch it

[MackemX]

the best way is to do what you want and say nothing Why do people feel the need to broadcast their intentions or actions on the internet anyway, is it for some ego boost?

and we all know what the poll was really referring too but if you truely want to believe it was for public domain, weddings etc then so be it

[indolikaa]

I, Indolikaa Khan, do hereby declare my intentions to the general public, to use the bathroom.

Thank you for your support.

[Capmaster]

Jimmalenko

... Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

Seinfeld would agree with that

Capmaster:
My previous comment is based on this:

From the AUP and Backup conditions:

Fair use DOES NOT APPLY TO rentals or borrowed media.

The heading of the poll is

copying rental/borrowed poll.

The likelyhood that someone intended to poll someone's wedding videos or public domain material would be quite a stretch.

I know it's a judgement call. I just said how I would call it and why.

The AUP does not forbid discussing warez. It forbids promoting it, soliciting it, spamming it, etc. Read the rules

A discussion of warez ...as warez, without specifics like titles, websites, or any inference of approving of it, is OK in my book.

Jimmalenko's instructions specifically pleaded with the participants not to discuss it ....just vote.

Here is a quote from his first post:

There are to be no discussions relating to advocating or discussing this behaviour in any way, shape or form, otherwise the thread will be locked. It is purely a simple collaboration of numbers. There is absolutely no need for any discussion whatsoever in this poll - a simple yes or no to the poll question will be sufficient so as to maintain anonymity for everyone. If we stick to these rules there will be no backlash on individual users, or the forum as a whole.

So what do people do? They completely ignore the plea to STFU about it, and they immediately start discussions of the evils of warez.

The poll wasn't intended to debate the pros and cons. It was intended ONLY as a vote of whether you've DONE IT OR NOT.

[handyguy]

Moore said about his film that he didn't mind people making a copy of it as long as they didnt sell it.

What gets to me are video games. You pay $49 for one, bring it home & put it in & find out that it doesn't have subtitles so you can't play it. Sure, just take it back to the store but they don't take opened returns.

Same with dvds, if they don't have captions or subs, I can't watch them & just as well, can't return.

[William Hayburn]

overloaded_ide,

Time-shifting only applies to broadcast. Rentals are for specific time periods, with the assumption that you have time to watch it. You have to follow the rles of the rental (1-day, 2day, so on). It's bollocks to think that you are guaranteed a viewing of the dvd.
I know that several of your rental shops have "unlimited" rentals. Why not try one of those instead of trying to justify piracy?

[gitreel]

Thank you for your support.

Now you sould like the Bartle's and James commercials.

[gll99]

Capmaster:
From the AUP

Do NOT advocate warez
Advocate warez. Recommending the use of warez.

As soon as someone says or votes that they use warez then to me it is advocating it's use.

Given the authority do so, I would have removed the thread and offered private reasons to the poster but with no warning since it is an arbitrary decision on my part.

I realize that this is my interpretation. I accept that yours may differ. Just respectfully providing a differing point of view.

[indolikaa]

Bah, humbug!

[Capmaster]

Capmaster:
From the AUP

Do NOT advocate warez
Advocate warez. Recommending the use of warez.

As soon as someone says or votes that they use warez then to me it is advocating it's use.

Given the authority do so, I would have removed the thread and offered private reasons to the poster but with no warning since it is an arbitrary decision on my part.

I realize that this is my interpretation. I accept that yours may differ. Just respectfully providing a differing point of view.

Thanks for that view gll99. I appreciate it.

Well, we all agree that warez is a touchy subject around here, and because of the possibility of this board being open to legal liability if we don't keep a vigilant watch for it, I'm especially conservative when it comes to issuing warnings to warez posters, or banning warez spammers. I would rather err on the side of being too severe, than letting it continue, and Baldrick possibly getting a summons as a result of that poor judgment. because even if a user is banned, it doesn't really put him at risk in any way. But letting him stay could put this site and Baldrick, the owner, and the ultimately responsible party, at risk of a legal nightmare.

So I respect all the opinions condemning warez. You're preaching to the choir here, guys

[overloaded_ide]

Time-shifting only applies to broadcast. Rentals are for specific time periods, with the assumption that you have time to watch it. You have to follow the rles of the rental (1-day, 2day, so on). It's bollocks to think that you are guaranteed a viewing of the dvd.
I know that several of your rental shops have "unlimited" rentals. Why not try one of those instead of trying to justify piracy?

Wasn't tryng to "JUSTIFY PIRACY" was simply a question of is it actually that or "TIME SHIFTING". And It's NOT something I do, just something that came to mind while in this topic.

For example, OK, if Leathal Weapon 2 is on tv at 5PM on Wendsday and I cannot watch it till Saturday, then I can "TIME SHIFT" it by recording it to VHS or DVD and watching when I have time on Saterday.

My Question is, What's the difference if I rent it on Wendsday at 5pm for just $1.50 then "TIME SHIFT" it to saturday when I have time to watch it??
It's the same movie, same thing!

Course that title is not a new release, I just use it as an example.

Now as I think i said also, Saturday the movie is not available to me, since everyone else gets there first and grabs up the new releases before I can. So in this case I would be "Time Shifting" something that is not available to me at the time I can watch it! As for the rental store, I am sure they would not care about "Time Shifting" since they are making a rental I would not otherwise be able to get, so they got an extra sale for the $1.50, they would not get the $3 Saturday anyway since they don't have one I can rent then. As for the movie studio ect... They don't get anypart of that money anyway, reguardless how much or little I pay the rental store, so they are not losing any money either.
And the rental store buys so many copies of a new release period. They have a set number of any title they buy and that's it, they don't buy any more. So it's not like they would buy an extra one just for me to rent later in the day either.

I think I mentioned that we are not really into movies all that much, and don't even have a normal TV system here. Just VHS/DVD, no Broadcasts of any type. I do buy alot of movies, but rentals we haven't been doing for along time till recently and not that many now, and we do watch them when we rent them, not "Time Shifting". But's it's a question I came up with based on the facts we have here.

And what do you mean " It's bollocks to think that you are guaranteed a viewing of the dvd. " actually??
Like if I rent a DVD with a bad scratch it's ok that it does not play??

"rules of the rental (1-day, 2day, so on). " Yes, agree, question is what is the difference in Monday or Thursday or Saturday?? 24HRs is 24HRs no matter what day that is

Another way to look at this I think is remember those LOSER disks of Disney, Rentals you buy and they self destruct after you open them so you don't have to return em
Ok, my time shifting theory is the same as buying those rentals the way I look at it. Those disks are 3 day rentals, So I rent/buy it on Monday does that mean I cannot wait to open it and watch it on Saturday?? I have to watch it the day I rent/buy it???

Now honestly, other than legal mumbo jumbo, what is the difference in all of that??

Like I said, I don't do that "Time Shifting of rentals" nor am I stupid enough to pay $7 for Disney Movies on destructive disks either.

Just questions and theories.

[William Hayburn]

Since you were all over the place with most of your points, I'll address just the two that I can decipher.

And what do you mean " It's bollocks to think that you are guaranteed a viewing of the dvd. " actually??
Like if I rent a DVD with a bad scratch it's ok that it does not play??

That's a different aspect. In context, I was referring to the time limit, and being able to view the DVD within it. A faulty disc has nothing to do with your time allowance, so you bring it back and they give you a good one.

"rules of the rental (1-day, 2day, so on). " Yes, agree, question is what is the difference in Monday or Thursday or Saturday?? 24HRs is 24HRs no matter what day that is

It looks like you were joking, but that would be tantamount to renting a car on Monday, but only wanting to be charged for Thursday, the day you drove it. The rental period is from the time you check out the movie (or car).

[jimmalenko]

Please read this again ...... slowly .....

Jimmalenko's instructions specifically pleaded with the participants not to discuss it ....just vote.

Here is a quote from his first post:

There are to be no discussions relating to advocating or discussing this behaviour in any way, shape or form, otherwise the thread will be locked. It is purely a simple collaboration of numbers. There is absolutely no need for any discussion whatsoever in this poll - a simple yes or no to the poll question will be sufficient so as to maintain anonymity for everyone. If we stick to these rules there will be no backlash on individual users, or the forum as a whole.

So what do people do? They completely ignore the plea to STFU about it, and they immediately start discussions of the evils of warez.

The poll wasn't intended to debate the pros and cons. It was intended ONLY as a vote of whether you've DONE IT OR NOT.

'nuff said.

As I mentioned earlier, before I posted the thread I PMed a mod to get their thoughts on it. The mod had already ruled that it was OK, so anyone here discussing its validity in reference to the AUP might as well not waste their energy

All disputes that arise from conflicts or vagueness in the AUP are to be decided soley by the webmasters or their moderators.

Said mod decided it was OK. End of discussion.

[qlizard]

I like cheese. Most kinds. Some are kind of moldy tasting, but I still like them. I like ham too. And bacon. Oh, and occasionally, I'll rip a rented DVD.

[overloaded_ide]

Good point, but then again since many rental places are not open on Sundays you don't get charged for that day. SO you get a 1 day rental on Saturday, No your not required to put in in the drop box on Sunday before 6Pm, you have untill sometime Monday to return it. So you want a Sunday rental, you rent it on Saturday but are only charged the one day you wanted it, which was Sunday.

Actually it works that way with other things around here also, small rural area. I have rented equipment like little backhoe/front end loader, ditch witch, ect.. And same thing applies normally. $150 a day, I rent on Saturday and return on monday, but only want to be charged 1 day when I actually use it! Since they are not open on Sunday I can't pick it up or bring it back that day, So I AM charged only One day when I actually use it
But I rent on Saturday and return on Monday, which is 2 days.

Also with "Time shifting" unlike renting a car or backhoe, you do not have it tied up from Monday-Thursday which is when you want to use it. A car you have to have possesion of to use. So they can not rent it while you have it. Now I have rented a car on Monday and only been charged one day when I actually use it which was a Sunday, almost a week latter! I did not pick it up or use it till Saterday, but then it would not have been available to rent, so I rented for the day I wanted in advance. Kinda the same thing really, except they have it the day you actually are going to use it in the case of Time Shifting a movie.
Seems as kinda the same things in way, in a way not. I am renting the Movie in advance for when I actually want it. Unlike a car I could time shift a movie, but a car is a physicall mass that can not be Shifted that way. A movie is not mass, it's data, and can be shifted.

I geuss another way to look at it, if I was closer to the store so driving time were not a factor (far away so really it is).

If I were to rent the movie on Wendsday at 5pm, make a "Time Shift" version in 30 minutes, then return the movie! Then what??
I have paid rent for a 24 hr period, had the movie for maybe total of 40 minutes. It's a 2 hour movie so I have not even had it long enough to watch once. So then what? Should they refund my money because I return it the same day, or should I be able to watch it on Saturday for the other 23 hrs?
And ya know many people do still live in rural areas like here. For friends I have it's 45 minute or hour drive one way for them to return a movie, if they aren't going in town anyway for anything those days they simply don't rent anything and that is causing lost revenue for the rental stores and lost tax money that could be collected. Also if all those people were renting more movies the rental stores would buy more movies also so the Studios are not making as much either.

Now some of these people do work near the rental store or drive by it on the way to work. So they could in theory rent a movie durring the week, make the "Time shift" disk at work, and return the disk the same day. Then they could watch the movie on Saturday or Sunday when they won't be in town. But instead they just never rent anything Because they won't waste the time and gas for a 1 1/2 - 2hr round trip just to return a 1 day rental, nor will they pay for more than one day.
So unless the store would rent it to them on Friday and let them return it on Monday for the one day price (and they won't) those people never rent anything.

Anyway, I am really bored as you can probably tell. Don't know what's wrong tonight, just not interested in much. I geuss it's cause I have alot I want to do, but can't set the stuff up to work right now. Tired of the PC stuff and want to do some of the Pewter casting and Gold plating work for awhile but don't have room to work right now so I can't. Can't work on the cars right now either. Just kinda a bummer weekend looks like.
Oh well.

[chicola]

I agree with overloaded (rural distances aside...).

Time-shifting a rental-dvd is the same thing as time-shifting the same movie from TV.

[pyscrow]

So whats the position on ripping a rented movie to replace a defunct one you own?

[Capmaster]

So whats the position on ripping a rented movie to replace a defunct one you own?

If you still have the original, then you've already paid for a permanent copy of it. Perfectly legal, IMO.

If you no longer have the original, but owned it at one time, it's still illegal without possession of the original.