DVP 642/37 and MP4 Recodes: How?

[CobraPilot]

Just got this model because it was advertised as compatible with MP4 discs.

Can't get any of my MP4 recodes to play (plays everything else just fine: DVD, VCD, SVCD). The unit shows "loading" for a long time, then "open" and ejects the disc.

MP4s were recoded via Nero Recode to QuickTime compatibility ("simple").

One source here suggested the unit is incompatible with Nero because it uses AAC audio encoding (as does QuickTime), yet MP4 standard seems to BE AAC, so how is unit MP4 compatible if it won't play AAC audio?

I spent a frustrating troubleshooting session with Philips Customer Support, speaking to someone whose technical expertise left a lot to be desired (was simply asking questions and going through a decision tree). Result: They say it's a defective unit and to return it. However, I'd like to be sure it's not something I'm doing wrong, such as overlooking a burning choice on my recodes. (I've recoded with disc-at-once, finalized.)

Anyone have any luck either PLAYING or RECODING MP4s via Nero that work in this player? If so, how did you do it?

[gll99]

I've only had my unit a few weeks (or less) and am trying all sorts of stuff. Nero mp4 conversion did not work for me either but I've only made 2 attempts so far. I've reencoded some of my older tv caps to divx 5.2 with mp3 audio using vdub and they all work fine at medium bitrates 700 to 1800 range). A couple of higher bitrate 2600+ seemed to flash unnaturally. I don't think the player can handle higher bitrate avi.

You encoded a Quicktime mp4 simple profile but did you remux the audio like you said in this thread. I was going to try that myself but haven't got around to it?

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1036886&highlight=dvp+642#1036886

[junkmalle]

It only plays *.AVI files with MPEG 4 video in them. It doesn't support the *.MP4 format.

Also finalize the disks. It likes that a lot better.

[timmyp]

Files must be in the .avi container. Also, the player is primarily a DivX mp4 player... a file encoded with any other mp4 codec (such as QT, Nero Recode, Xvid, etc) will give mixed results depending on encoding options and audio compression used (IOW, they may or may not play).

There are a couple of lengthy threads on this site regarding what this player will and won't play.

Search for the model name....

[gastorgrab]

It only plays *.AVI files with MPEG 4 video in them. It doesn't support the *.MP4 format.

Also finalize the disks. It likes that a lot better.

I've actually had a little better luck with MP4's but still not total success.

Nero Digital didn't play at all. MP4 made with 3ivX DShow played Video only.

Of course the manual never claimed that it could decode AAC, but how did it parse the MP4? Are MP4's a variant of AVI format?

I'll stick with XviD AVI's w/ AC3 audio.

[junkmalle]

3ivx, divx, xvid, mp4, etc. are all variants of the MPEG 4 compression scheme. AVI is basically a structure around the data, a standard container for audio and video data. MP4 is the same data without the AVI container.

[ntngod]

Are MP4's a variant of AVI format?

I'll stick with XviD AVI's w/ AC3 audio.

Yes, .MP4 is just a container format like .AVI, .MKV, etc...

(Spec-wise - not necessarily Philips compatible though - for video you can use MPEG-4 streams (NeroD, XviD, DivX, etc.), MPEG-2, or MPEG-1. Audio is AAC, MP3, MP2, and a few others)

For compatibilty with the 642 with the firmware currently out - and using Nero Digital video - I've been using ND video and MP3 in an .MP4 container.

If I want AC3, I stick the ND video and the AC3 in an .AVI file.
(MP4 container spec doesn't support AC3)

Unfortunately, the current Philips firmware doesn't seem to read PAR or DAR information if you want to make an anamorphic MP4

[CobraPilot]

It only plays *.AVI files with MPEG 4 video in them. It doesn't support the *.MP4 format.

Also finalize the disks. It likes that a lot better.

I'm not challenging your statement, but it does confuse me. The manual for this player, page 19, under "playable discs," has, among various others,

"-MPEG-4 files on CD-R/CD-RW
--Simple profile
--Advanced simple profile (640x480)"

I'm assuming (dangerous word!) from the manual statement (which, of course, might not be right), is that a file with an .MP4 extension (which both Nero and QuickTime produce) ought to play in this unit.

What am I missing here as far as playability/compatibility for this unit? It plays everything else I've thrown at it (VCD, SVCD, DVD, AVI) as far as video files, but not MP4 discs encoded via Nero (QT mode) or QuickTime itself.

As I stated in my original post, the only reason I bought this unit was to play MP4 video discs because of their exceptional quality. If it won't play 'em, I can find a far cheaper unit that also plays everything except MP4s. I'm about to run out of CompUSA's 14-day return policy and I'm trying to find a definitive answer on this, on the assumption that it just might be something I'm doing wrong.

(Yes I can burn to DVD, but I've got a TON of blank CD-Rs . . . . . )

[junkmalle]

It only plays *.AVI files with MPEG 4 video in them. It doesn't support the *.MP4 format.

Also finalize the disks. It likes that a lot better.

I'm not challenging your statement, but it does confuse me. The manual for this player, page 19, under "playable discs," has, among various others,

"-MPEG-4 files on CD-R/CD-RW
--Simple profile
--Advanced simple profile (640x480)"

I'm assuming (dangerous word!) from the manual statement (which, of course, might not be right), is that a file with an .MP4 extension (which both Nero and QuickTime produce) ought to play in this unit.

First let me point out that my experience with DVP-642 is limited to the week or two that I had one before giving it away, and the DVD's full of files I've given that same person over the last six months or so. My main MPEG 4 player (aside from my computers) is a Liteon LVD-2002.

I wouldn't assume that "MPEG-4 files" means the *.MP4 files that Nero and Quicktime produce. MPEG 4 is a generic term which covers those files, AVI files with Divx, Xvid, 3ivx, etc. encodings, and maybe even WM9 files. Up until recently "MPEG-4 files" was virtually synonymous with Divx AVI.

I tried a few .MP4 files back when I first had the player and it didn't play them. I believe I tried on both DVD+RW and CD-RW disks. I would assume that whatever files the player can play on DVD it can also play on CD (finalization and ISO issues aside). I know the firmware has been updated at least once since then so maybe it can play the files now. Ntngod (in an earlier message) seems to be able to play at least some MP4 files created by Nero.

MP4 and AVI are containers. Think of them as envelopes holding a bunch of MPEG 4 papers. A machine designed to handle #10 envelopes won't necessarily know how to handle Fed Ex flat packs -- even if the both contain the exact same papers.

[ntngod]

The firmware that came with my 642, when I bought it back in March/April, couldn't do .MP4 files.

The .MP4 support appears to have been added in the two firmware updates released since.

I believe the last update was in June.

[CobraPilot]

The firmware that came with my 642, when I bought it back in March/April, couldn't do .MP4 files.

The .MP4 support appears to have been added in the two firmware updates released since.

I believe the last update was in June.

My unit came with the latest firmware upgrade (if the Philips website is to be believed), but I installed the upgrade anyway, just to be sure.

Since my last post I had just a tiny bit of progress: I re-encoded a Nero MP4 ("QT compatible") through QuickTime and now the player will at least accept the disc, although it does not play it.

Previously, after a long "loading" LED message, it would show "open" and eject the disc. Now it proceeds to a "play" message on the LED, then the minec counter begins to show elapsed time (in 5-15 second increments), but no audio or video. Going through the menu options, I can see the root directory and the file on it, as named via QuickTime.

Sooooo, it seems I've gotten a little closer to solving the "how to encode" problem, but I ain't there yet. It may be I just haven't found the "magic parameters" to use for a encode that will work with this player.

I've e-mailed Philips and asked them the point-blank question: How did THEY determine MP4 compatibility; i.e., what software did THEY use to create an MP4 and make it work?

It looks like a lot of us would like an answer to THAT question! (I'm hoping I don't get the "it's a software problem" vs. "it's a hardware problem" finger-pointing!)

(BTW: I loved the "#10 envelope" vs. other type envelope analogy to point out the differences between MP4 "containers." Simple enough for even ME to understand!)

[junkmalle]

CobraPilot,

There are a few advanced MPEG 4 features that most of the hardware players don't like. Do not use the Quarter Pixel (QPel) or Global Motion Compensation (GMC) options.

If you're making your own MPEG 4 files, try using VirtualDub (or one of the variants like VirtualDubMPEG, or VirtualDUbMod) to create XVID AVI files. I do this all the time for my Liteon player and the files all work on the Philips too.

I usually stick to MP3 audio at 48 KHz or 44.1 KHz at 128 to 256 kbps. I know some of the players don't like very low bit rate audio like 56 kbps.

[gll99]

The manual says:
Supports Divx 3.11, 4x, 5x except GMC and QP
Supports all MPEG-4 that comply with specifications of ISO-MPEG4.

Do MP4 comply?
When I mix various fiiles on a dvd ms slow or fast mpeg4,divx5,xvid (no GMC or Qpel) and MP4 files made by nero, QT or winvdrpro the MP4 do not play even though I can see them in the menu. In case your wondering, it doesn't matter if I change the ext to avi or not.
What I do really like is that it accepts wierd resolutions like 528x272. I tested a few old caps of odd sizes and they play wide screen or 3/4 screen. It just centers them and they play fine. All my audio so far is mp3 and ac3 don't know if it supports avi with anything else.

btw) I also tried h264 and vp60 codecs and they did not work.

I have the latest firmware right out of the box.

[CobraPilot]

CobraPilot,

There are a few advanced MPEG 4 features that most of the hardware players don't like. Do not use the Quarter Pixel (QPel) or Global Motion Compensation (GMC) options.

If you're making your own MPEG 4 files, try using VirtualDub (or one of the variants like VirtualDubMPEG, or VirtualDUbMod) to create XVID AVI files. I do this all the time for my Liteon player and the files all work on the Philips too.

I usually stick to MP3 audio at 48 KHz or 44.1 KHz at 128 to 256 kbps. I know some of the players don't like very low bit rate audio like 56 kbps.

I have no problems making DivX/AVI's, but the speed and various features of Nero Recode make it my "encoder of choice" IF I could figure out how to get the DVP642 to read an MP4, since the quality seems to be marginally better. May not be worth the hassle, but I keep thinking SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE has been able to use Nero (or even QuickTime) to create an MP4 file that this model will recognize and play.

I AM planning to doublecheck that Nero (and even QuickTime) are not enabling GMC or QP by default, and whether they can be eliminated.

[calhoun]

My DVP 642K plays every DivX and XviD video ive thrown at it. She plays MPEG 4 avi's just fine. I am not sure where you are getting the MP4 from? Ive never seen videos with this extension. maybe if you change the file extension to .avi it might work.

[calhoun]

Hmmn,

Please disregard my previous post. It seems I am showing my ignorance..

So, MP4's are better quality than DivX or XviD? I'll have to have a play with them.

[jwaxman]

For compatibilty with the 642 with the firmware currently out - and using Nero Digital video - I've been using ND video and MP3 in an .MP4 container.

ntngod I've successfully followed your instructions for putting the Nero Digital video together with an MP3 into in AVI. It plays perfectly in the DVP642. Thanks.

I'm curious though as to how you got an MP3 into an MP4 container file. My attempts to use MP4UI for this keep generating error messages.

[gll99]

ntngod I've successfully followed your instructions for putting the Nero Digital video together with an MP3 into in AVI. It plays perfectly in the DVP642. Thanks.

Is there more than what is in this thread? Care to share some details?
Thanks

[jwaxman]

MP4UI lets you export the video part of your MP4 as an AVI.
Any number of programs can get you your audio as an MP3 but
I've been using Nero's Sound Editor to import the MP4 and export the MP3.
Once you've got the video an AVI and your audio as an MP3 you can recombine them in VirtualDub using "Direct Stream Copy" mode for both audio and video.
I was expecting to have A/V sync issues with this method but so far I haven't.
All in all its not that much work and takes very little time since there's no video reencoding going on but with DVD blanks being as cheap as they are now its not worth the effort in most cases.

[gll99]

jwaxman
Much appreciated info.

Like everyone else with the dvp-642 I've been experimenting with a variety of options to create the best avi for the player. I'm interested in options dealing with my old existing files on cd as well as any future tv caps I might store for future viewing. Up until now my best NTSC videos have been 29.97fps (for smoothness of play) and divx 5.2 with about 900 to 1800 kbs and also mp3 cbr audio (although vbr played fine also). These videos are stable and reasonably clear.
The discussions led me to try Nero recode and a few other tools to create mp4 and although I was satisfied with the look on PC I could not get mp4 to play on my DVP-642.

I'll give this a try.
Thanks a lot for the response.

[wulf109]

I have been successful in getting Recode MP4's to play. My DVP642 is an early model,so I doubt the firmware makes a difference. Recode using 640x480 and sample aac at 44,100. Then MP4UI to demux to avi and aac. I use EasyCD Extractor to convert the aac to 192 MP3,EasyCD Extractor will only convert from 44,100 audio on aac. Then mux them together using AVI_MUX set to CBR and NO open DML support.

[wulf109]

By the way you don't need to convert the aac to mp3. If you demux the ac3 file it can be muxed with the extracted avi file with AVI_MUX.

[jwaxman]

By the way you don't need to convert the aac to mp3. If you demux the ac3 file it can be muxed with the extracted avi file with AVI_MUX.

aac = ac3?

[wulf109]

AC3 is the audio format used on DVD's. AAC is the audio format used by Nero Recode. What am I missing?

[jwaxman]

I think I get it now.

You're saying that the DVP642 can play an AVI that has Nero Digital video and either AC3 audio or MP3 audio.

Furthermore I can grab the AC3 audio directly from the DVD.
What program is best for grabbing the AC3?

[wulf109]

Ripping programs like DVD Decrypter can extract the ac3 in stream mode.
VOBEDIT is a good choice if you already ripped to your HD.

[gll99]

I have a 2 hour xvid movie capture that would not play properly on my dvp-642 and needed re-encoding. As a prior test I have already converted it to Divx 5.2 using vdub (filesize about 1400mb).
Based on the info here I decided to re-encode the xvid to mp4. First I used Nero Recode (that took 1 hour which is 2x realtime) then to convert the audio to mp3 I used the neromediaplayer. It has an option to input the aac audio from the mp4 and record it to mp3 (or other format). That took about 15 minutes (8x realtime). I used mp4ui to create the avi container but without the mp3 track (very fast). I used Avimux to mux the avi and mp3 and set the interleave to every 1 frame (very fast).
The encoding scheme I chose in Recode was "fit to 1 74 minute cd". The final file with muxed mp3 was near 680 mb.
The movie plays great on the dvp-642. I couldn't believe that at less than half the size it's as good as the divx 5.2 which took more time to recode.

[CobraPilot]

Nero Recode 2 MP4's and This Player: Nero Responds

I queried Nero as to whether or not there was a way to make Nero's MP4's work with this player.

Their answer: No, because their MP4 is just one of many variants of MPEG-4 out there, and theirs only works with some obscure device running CE.

Soooooo, unless Philips offers a firmware upgrade, using Nero Recode 2 is not an option for this player.

In my reply thanks for their information, I encouraged them to consider "opening up" Recode 2 to encompass more players. Perhaps other DVP 642 owners might do the same. We also might consider encouraging Philips to provide a firmware upgrade that would be such a plus by providing "one-step" encoding via Nero.

Of course, this player WILL work with DivX/Xvid and AVI . . . but Recode 2 is so blazingly fast and high-quality, it's disappointing their MP4 format is incompatible--so far.

[ntngod]

Nero Recode 2 MP4's and This Player: Nero Responds

I queried Nero as to whether or not there was a way to make Nero's MP4's work with this player.

Their answer: No, because their MP4 is just one of many variants of MPEG-4 out there, and theirs only works with some obscure device running CE.

Ahead/Nero uses a non-standard method to add chapters and subtitles into the MP4 container, but the video stream itself is MPEG-4 compliant.

Ahead has a certification program similar to DivX's for hardware players, and ESS just announced their Vibratto II chipsets will be Nero Digital certified.

That's the chipset that powers the 642, of course. So perhaps a future firmware will bring AAC decoding to the 642...

For now, the video stream works, and that's the most important part.

[CobraPilot]

Nero Recode 2 MP4's and This Player: Nero Responds

I queried Nero as to whether or not there was a way to make Nero's MP4's work with this player.

Their answer: No, because their MP4 is just one of many variants of MPEG-4 out there, and theirs only works with some obscure device running CE.

Ahead/Nero uses a non-standard method to add chapters and subtitles into the MP4 container, but the video stream itself is MPEG-4 compliant.

Ahead has a certification program similar to DivX's for hardware players, and ESS just announced their Vibratto II chipsets will be Nero Digital certified.

That's the chipset that powers the 642, of course. So perhaps a future firmware will bring AAC decoding to the 642...

For now, the video stream works, and that's the most important part.

Let's DO hope Philips will update their firmware! (And Nero updates come about every two weeks . . . . )

As to your "the video stream works" comment: If you've been successful with a Nero Recode 2 MP4, how have you gotten that to work? I've had no luck at all.

Several of the "advanced" selections are grayed-out (including GMC and Half Pixel) that I'm wondering might be causing some of the problems in that Q-pel is the default, and this player specifically says it won't play Q-pel or GMC.

When I queried Nero tech support I must have puzzled them because they immediately requested screen captures showing these grayed-out/unselectable options.