Shame on us

[Capmaster]

I hope that we get back on track with business as usual now that the major changes have been made, and this is now the OT we have to work with. That's just the way things worked out. So we suck it up and we carry on. I'm a bit bothered by Dr. Gee's post about how he plans to live mostly over at politick now. I hope that's just frustration talking. I'd hate to see him go. But if he does, then I'll see him over there, but life will go on

I am frankly surprised by some of the indignant posts I've been seeing. Most members, a vast majority of the members here are free users. They're here because Baldrick lets them. It's a priviledge, not a right.

So we have problems crop up and the board administration sees fit to let it be known that they are displeased with the external comments given about the "professionalism" of Vhelp, since at any given time during the day there are over a hundred unregistered "guests" lurking.

So attempts are made ...gentle nudges ...to try to get the OT membership to understand. The nudges don't work, so shouts are needed. They raise an outrageous cry of "Ooohhhh, the OT is going downhill" or "It isn't fun anymore". But do they try to help? Some do. I got several PMs from veterans here applauding the effort, and a promise to help. But most don't change a thing.

Then we have the maniacal post race threads popping up, bragging about being the top poster for the first day of September. Does that really excite anyone and inspire envy? Sadly, no. But it's like the whole damn forum forgot its thorazine for 4 days. Really, really nuts.

So I post a strong message that it's gotta stop. Apparently my message was a bit too late to have any effect because Baldrick apparently decided that it's GONNA stop. No MAYBE, or SHOULD. IT WILL. How? Remove post counts.

ANd once again, we see posts about how "I don't know how to tell who is who without it." Thet forget that it's only a mouse-click away - using the "Profile" button. Voila! Post count, join date, and even a forum breakdown. But complain they will.

Even after Baldrick was nice enough to add Quick Post and before that Forum breakdown of posts. And before that he had added the cursor text box so all you need to do is mouse over a post and the first text shows. Easy, slick, and damned considerate of him. He made it the smoothest forum I've ever seen to navigate, and with all the guides, lists, reviews, FAQs .....dammmmmmnnnnn!! What an awesome resource this place is.

And it's free!!!! FREE !!!!! No membership dues, no pestering for donations. FREE. Only a minimum of sponsor ads - not even a bother for us. And not only is it free, but Baldrick no doubt has to put many personal endeavors on hold because this site demands so much time of his. Time, and money, and sweat. And it's FREE for us to use and enjoy.

And what do we do?

We complain.

[888888]

I'd hate to say this, but I disagree with you Cap. You are the man, and as usual, the steady voice of reason, but I am with Dr. Gee.

This board is great not only because of the site, but because of the PEOPLE. Because of the huge numbers of folks contributing, posting, and visiting this site, it is a success. I already see people leaving because of all of this. I don't want to see this board turn into a ghost town or VIP club.

[jimmalenko]

Let B know he might as well remove Location, since that is also listed in your profile.

[Capmaster]

I'd hate to say this, but I disagree with you Cap. You are the man, and as usual, the steady voice of reason, but I am with Dr. Gee.

This board is great not only because of the site, but because of the PEOPLE. Because of the huge numbers of folks contributing, posting, and visiting this site, it is a success. I already see people leaving because of all of this. I don't want to see this board turn into a ghost town or VIP club.

I think that the ones who are truly leaving, and staying away would have anyways. This was probably "the straw".

But you forget that nature abhors a vacuum. For every old member that leaves, a new one will join, and participate under the new rules, not knowing that at one time one could post anything without fear of retribution from the forum ownership.

But I also think that some who have left, but still lurk, will embrace the new OT and make it work just fine.

While I hate to see old friends move on, I also don't want them to stay if this new policy is going to make them unhappy.

Just look back through the forum archives and read early OT posts. Some of the venerable members like Tommyknocker and zzyzzx can tell you that almost everybody from those days is gone now, replaced by new blood. Look through the posts and tell me how many names you recognize. This place is cyclic. Every so often there is an exodus, and a fresh wave entering. I believe what we're seeing is just that.

[888888]

I'd hate to say this, but I disagree with you Cap. You are the man, and as usual, the steady voice of reason, but I am with Dr. Gee.

This board is great not only because of the site, but because of the PEOPLE. Because of the huge numbers of folks contributing, posting, and visiting this site, it is a success. I already see people leaving because of all of this. I don't want to see this board turn into a ghost town or VIP club.

I think that the ones who are truly leaving, and staying away would have anyways. This was probably "the straw".

But you forget that nature abhors a vacuum. For every old member that leaves, a new one will join, and participate under the new rules, not knowing that at one time one could post anything without fear of retribution from the forum ownership.

But I also think that some who have left, but still lurk, will embrace the new OT and make it work just fine.

While I hate to see old friends move on, I also don't want them to stay if this new policy is going to make them unhappy.

Just look back through the forum archives and read early OT posts. Some of the venerable members like Tommyknocker and zzyzzx can tell you that almost everybody from those days is gone now, replaced by new blood. Look through the posts and tell me how many names you recognize. This place is cyclic. Every so often there is an exodus, and a fresh wave entering. I believe what we're seeing is just that.

I agree that there should not be too many porno-ish posts, who is the top poster posts, nonsense posts. I think those, while fun to a few, are to many members wastes of space. I just disagree with removing post counts and join dates. And I don't think newer members will embrace the NEW OT as previous ones have if the rules about stuff become sooooo strict. It may scare quality people like yoda away.

[Capmaster]

Voice up on the thread that's going right now in the feedback forum:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236486

If enough folks disagree with it, who knows?

[indolikaa]

888888, let me simplify this.

1) This is not a democracy. This is a benevolent dictatorship managed by an intellectual oligarchy. In other words, Baldrick does what Baldrick feels is in his best interests. And his moderators effect that policy.

2) Baldrick owns this site. We don't.

3) Therefore, while he may welcome and consider our musings, he has no obligation or responsibility to do what we want done.

4) Membership here is not mandatory. It is by your own choosing and by Baldrick's good graces. If you don't like the rules, you don't have to be here.


The rules have changed. Your passionate argument is going to fall on deaf ears upstairs. Do you know why?

Because 'we' Post Whores didn't do OUR job in maintaining a DECENT environment for ALL parties involved. We are not the only ones that call this place our personal social club. There are also GUESTS that visit this website, looking for both hobbyist and professional advice. They come here to learn about digital video.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this argument you have presented. Capmaster is right: shame on us. It started with the ROT-13 threads, and then it moved to a few members who flooded the boards with their goal of seeing who could grow the biggest penis in August. And in the process, it spread beyond the Off-Topic into threads it had no business invading.

Sitting here opening multiple threads to argue Baldrick's decision isn't the answer. And quite frankly, it's counterproductive. We should be doing OUR part to fix the problem. Have you seen what's been posted since the 'Critical Member Information' was removed? And you wonder why Baldrick has concerns, with all the guests and new visitors we have each day?

This isn't just a little forum in the anonymity of cyberspace. This place is growing, and so is its reputation. Are we going to become known as THE destination for video help, or the Internet's exclusive raunch club?

One of my coworkers visited this site last week. Great information, he said, but there's no way in hell I'd let my teenage daughter wander around here unsupervised.

What a great compliment.

[888888]

Well, I agree with you that OT should be private. That would solve the problem of guests being turned off by it.

[Supreme2k]

One of my coworkers visited this site last week. Great information, he said, but there's no way in hell I'd let my teenage daughter wander around here unsupervised.

What a great compliment.

I have to say that I HATE bullshit comments like that (cw's, not indo's). It represents this "soccer-mom" attitude in the sense that I am 100% sure his teenage daughter would never look for or find this place. Did they close down MTV.com already?

When people come here asking for legitimate help, they get it. OT on any board usually becomes a little raunchy. That's why many purely professional sites do not have an OT forum.

If Baldrick wants this to be a place to get info and hang out, OT is not a bad idea. If he wants it to be a purely clinical operation, where you can let your "teenage daughter wander around", then get rid of OT put in/activate a swear filter and get rid of all but the most heavy-handed mods.

Again, no offense to you, indo.

[indolikaa]

Well, I agree with you that OT should be private. That would solve the problem of guests being turned off by it.

If we want our Join Date and Post Count back, we have to EARN them back. We have to create a situation where niether becomes a bragging right. I guess the question is, would privatizing OT solve that?

I'm being realistic when I say, "I don't know."

Privatizing that forum would keep the dirty laundry away from the casual visitor. I don't know how it would help with the post count issue...

[888888]

Well, I don't think I could move to politick.org anyway, cause they have politics even in the OT and I can only stand politics in small doses. That is why I dissappear for weeks at a time there.

[indolikaa]

One of my coworkers visited this site last week. Great information, he said, but there's no way in hell I'd let my teenage daughter wander around here unsupervised.

What a great compliment.

I have to say that I HATE bullshit comments like that (cw's, not indo's). It represents this "soccer-mom" attitude in the sense that I am 100% sure his teenage daughter would never look for or find this place. Did they close down MTV.com already?

When people come here asking for legitimate help, they get it. OT on any board usually becomes a little raunchy. That's why many purely professional sites do not have an OT forum.

If Baldrick wants this to be a place to get info and hang out, OT is not a bad idea. If he wants it to be a purely clinical operation, where you can let your "teenage daughter wander around", then get rid of OT put in/activate a swear filter and get rid of all but the most heavy-handed mods.

Again, no offense to you, indo.

No offense taken. It's a valid point. I'll ask him tomorrow to clarify his thought and report back.

[sacajaweeda]

I hereby denounce my membership to the post whore wannabe club, out of respect for Baldrick.

[lordsmurf]

It's really easy in PHPBB to hide certain forums from guests. OT probably fits in perfectly.

Indo, your coworker should be more concerned about the boys at school trying to stick their tongues/wangs in his daughter, not some writing online. The worst things I ever heard in my life, I heard in school (and college). Not online, and I've been online for quite a while. Or for that matter, the lyrics in the latest crap pop/rap albums are much worse than the things I see said here. Maybe MTV.com should go too, if he's that concerned?

[jimmalenko]

joined dates are back.