DVDSP3 building (compiling) times

[stavrosh]

We are using DVDSP3 and Canopus AVDC-300 to convert VHS tapes into DVD. The mov files are first processed by Compressor 1.2.1, then by A.Pack and then we put together the material with DVDSP3. Usually we have files ranging from 90 to 130 min.
I have noticed that files having the same length might take very different times to build from 30 min to 5-6 hours !!! To mention that the projects are build with more or less the same graphic layout.
Since we are new to the field I am wondering if more experienced members of the FORUM can give us some feedback on the building DVDSP3 times.

THANKS

[terryj]

Welcome to the wacky world of DVD building!
Enjoy your stay...


I will post my work times for a 2hr, 17 minute project
I just completed to give you an idea of time frames.

My specs: G4 Dual 1ghz, 1.75GB of Ram,
300GB of HD space, Apple Superdrive A-04.

First thing I did,was I drew out the structure on paper.
I knew I was using my library template, which has
2 DZs ( drop zones) for video, and text buttons.
So I knew I would have to put two 18sec vid clips
here ( 5mins to plan).

Second, I knew that the footage for this movie
was fairly recently taped, and I would not
have to worry about color correction. So
with that, I decided to use iMovie4 to import
from the ADVC-100 rather than FCP4. Also, since
I would not be adding, or subtracting to the film
( such as doing fades, a slideshow track,etc.)
it made no sense to me to pull out the big guns,
when a little one would accomplish the job ok.

I launched iMovie 4, inputted the footage,
and had it ready to go after ( 2 hours, 20 mins).

Third, after importing, I arrange the footage
onto the timeline, and then do my minor edits
( removing the "next, on HBO.." etc.), then I
save the project, creating a QT reference movie.
( 15 mins.)

I then save the project as with a new name,
( like NAMEOFFILM_trailer.proj) and then edit down
to get my first 18 sec DZ movie .
( Since I was familiar with the film, this was
easy for me to get to the highlights quickly,
and edit it down, about 10 minutes.)
I then repeat this step again, creating a
NAMEOFFILM_trailer2.proj, and then creating
a second DZ movie ( another 10 minutes).

Now with all my QT ref movies made,
my next step is to launch BitBudgetRate calculator
and figure out my bitrates. I always set for two motion
menus, and total my time to 138 minutes
( 2hr17mins + 36sec for DZ's).
Then with my magic #'s, I write
these down, and then restart. ( 5 mins.)

(Now restarting is my own thing. since i run the
G4 24/7, I do this out of habit and as my own precaution.
your mileage may vary, and you may not need this step)

With the g4 restarted, I launch Compressor, and create a new
preset based on the magic numbers from the calculator.
I save this preset, and open the Batch Monitor. ( 5 mins)

I then drag my QT refernce movies into compressor, and
set the presets and target drive. ( 5 mins)

I then click batch, and Compressor begins its work.
I ONLY set the audio for the main title, the two
DZ movies do not need audio, as I will use a
.aiff from my library of audio clips for the main menu.
( This particular project I used 2passVBR, estimate
low was 3.2 MPBPS, and the target was 5.0 MBPS.
The audio was AIFF, 16bit, 48khz). total time,
9hrs, 17 minutes.

With this done, I restart again, this time so I can use
A.PACK. I set my one stream (again, not using streams
for the DZs, just the main one) to my saved preset
I have called DVD audio, which is 2 channel non compressed,
etc. and let it roll ( 30 mins)

So now that my assets are all done
( total time 772 minutes or 13 hours later)
I can launch DVDSP3, open my template,
add my assets, preview, do my final tweaks
and save the project
( give or take 20 mins.)
I then run simulator to test
(5 minutes)
and then click build and burn.
DVDSP3 builds and burns the disc and I'm done .
( 20 minutes on 2x TDK media)

total time: 13hrs, 45 minutes.

Now mind you, I do most of my hardest work
(Compressing ) outside of DVDSP3 and I take care
of the majority of all of it ( the main title,
down to the DZ movies.) outside of DVSP3.
ANYTHING that you don't take care of outside
of DVDSP3, you will be waiting on at the backend
to be taken care. For instance, my DZ movies..
had I just brought them in as edited QT movies,
it would have had to take time to filter those
before muxing.

I hope this helps point you in a direction
towards streamlining your own processes, but
as you can see, it STILL takes a bit to
MAKE the finalized product.

[TugBoat]

...files having the same length might take very different times to build from 30 min to 5-6 hours !!! To mention that the projects are build with more or less the same graphic layout...

Sounds like you have the preferences set to 'encode on build'. The 30 minutes sounds about right, my guess would be that DVDSP is re-encoding the video on those projects that take 5-6 hours to 'build'. An easy way to tell if DVDSP wants to encode the video is to look at what it says about the 'video asset'. If it lists the asset as 'Format: QuickTime Video', then it will re-encode the asset on build. It must list the video as either 'Format: MPEG-2' or 'MPEG-1' to avoid re-encoding.

I would say that there is something about the video that DVDSP doesn't accept as DVD standard, hence the re-encoding. I've had that problem when using Compressor for encoding. I don't use Compressor anymore. I use the QuickTime Player to export to MPEG-2, it uses the same MPEG-2 encoder that Compressor uses only it never turns out video that DVDSP doesn't like. For MPEG-1 encoding, I use Toast 6. My DVD players do not like ffmpegX's MPEG-1s, and Compressor takes forever to encode MPEG-1s then DVDSP has a tendency to want to re-encode Compressor MPEG-1s to MPEG-2s. Hope this helps 8)

[stavrosh]

Dear friends , thank you very much for your comments and specially for the detailed explanation of the steps required in TerryJ's message. Actually TerryJ we have followed another of your excellent advices when we started our recent VHS to DVD adventure .
I have two comments for both, regarding the time it takes to build the project (and then BURN / FORMAT it or not) from the moment most DVD material has been encoded with Compressor or with QuickTime. TugBoat has mentioned correctly that if an asset is not encoded DVDSP3 will encode it first . We verify this after seeing that in some projects our audio files were in MP3 ... which DVDSP3 converted in AIFF. This took extra time ( but I guess 4-5 min at max right ??)
NOW assuming that all assets are encoded HOW long does it take to build let's say a 120 min project ? 20 min, 30min, 60 min, 120 min ? I do realize that this depends on the computer used , so I am giving you our specs so that you don't need to check my profile. We have a twin mirror G4 at 1.25 G and 1.0 G of memory.
TerryJ / TugBoat did you ever find a project requiring more building time ( after the asset encodinf of course) that what you usually expect ? I am asking for details so we can pinpoint any sources or complications.
And a final question. Besides using iTunes for the MP3 to AIFF conversion are there any other tools for sounding processing and format conversion which you reccommend ?

A big thanks to the FORUM as usual

[TugBoat]

Well, I have a Dual 1.25, 1.25GBs of ram, 10.3.5 & DVDSP 2.05. It never takes longer than around 15 minutes to build a DVD. That's from the time I hit the 'Build' button to the dialog window saying build complete. I always encode everything before hand, never have DVDSP do the actual burn, and the only times it tried to take longer was when it wanted to re-encode the video. I aborted those attempts at re-encoding and solved the problem outside of DVDSP.

And, all my discs use AC3 audio encoded with A.Pack. Those times that I use source material from Toast, I change the .m1a extension to .mp2 and then convert to .aiff using iTunes. I always just build the DVD and then test the build with DVD Player. Afterwards I use Toast to burn the DVD. I have to be approaching the 1000 burned disc mark and the only time I had trouble was when using some really low quality discs or source material not encoded by QT or Toast. If you use source material whose final encoding was done by third parties/apps, you could run into the infamous 'internal muxing error, build aborted'(or something like that) error. But, you should see the error message if you run into that, plus, the build stops in it's tracks

Otherwise, I have no idea why you could be having that problem. Maybe a visit to the Apple DVDSP Discussion board would help? Good Luck.

[terryj]

I have to be approaching the 1000 burned disc mark

Man, and I thought i was overdoing it by having almost
350 discs burned!

Come to think of it, if I add in what I previously burned to
VCD in the old days to my current new DVD count,
I'm approaching 1310
( 3 binders of VCDs that hold 320 discs + 350 single case dvds)

yikes!

[terryj]

Actually TerryJ we have followed another of your excellent advices when we started our recent VHS to DVD adventure .

Hey I'm glad i'm good for something....!

I have two comments for both, regarding the time it takes to build the project (and then BURN / FORMAT it or not) from the moment most DVD material has been encoded with Compressor or with QuickTime. TugBoat has mentioned correctly that if an asset is not encoded DVDSP3 will encode it first . We verify this after seeing that in some projects our audio files were in MP3 ... which DVDSP3 converted in AIFF. This took extra time ( but I guess 4-5 min at max right ??)
NOW assuming that all assets are encoded HOW long does it take to build let's say a 120 min project ? 20 min, 30min, 60 min, 120 min ? I do realize that this depends on the computer used , so I am giving you our specs so that you don't need to check my profile. We have a twin mirror G4 at 1.25 G and 1.0 G of memory.

With all assets encoded properly through Compressor FIRST before
authring, like in my earlier posting, on my mirror Dual 1 G4, total time
averages 15 to 20 minutes, 25 if you want to include the 5 minutes
i take to run the simulator first BEFORE burn. I've never had a project
at the end stage take more than 20 mins ( the equivlent speed of
my DVD-Burner at 2x) to burn. If you are using canned templates,
or a template you have of your own, or one of
Master http://homepage.mac.com/tgpo/ tgpo's templates,
the overall from importing
assetts to final build should only take 30 mins MAX on a 120 min
project. This is what I usually strive for, and I'm VERY picky about
minute details like menu stops, chapter jumps, loops and transitions,
and I still manage to get it knocked out.

TerryJ / TugBoat did you ever find a project requiring more building time ( after the asset encoding of course) that what you usually expect ? I am asking for details so we can pinpoint any sources or complications.
And a final question. Besides using iTunes for the MP3 to AIFF conversion are there any other tools for sounding processing and format conversion which you reccommend ?
A big thanks to the FORUM as usual

Once. The unexpectedly problem came from a file that I did not create,
either by VHS to DV capture or via rip. It was an hour long epsidode of
a TV show I snagged off of usenet, and the file was originally an .avi
flavor, that played fine in VLC. Trusting that it was fine, I divx
doctored the file to QT movie, and then bounced it into compressor to
encode. The results from Compressor were crap, and I was able to trace
it back to the fact that the .avi file was created with an unsupported
QT codec. I had to go back to the original .avi, bounce it through
ffmpegx and recreate it to make it QT compatible. Once I did that, I
played to make sure it was ok, then i saved from QT to QT movie, and
then bounced that into Compressor. It fixed the problem with the file.
And i learned a lesson... try to always generate your own content, but
if you have to use someone else's, then test it throughly.

Aside from that...I haven't had any problems with my setup.
I do find I occasionally run out of build space, and I've added
more space since I first got the computer.

If you are having problems with assets being reencoded
during your builds, you might try and make sure to
1. encode all your assetts before hand.
2. take note of your assetts, and get them to the same space.
for instance, all your audio to AC3, or your video to at least mpeg-2.

Also besides iTunes, which I don't use, there is the wonderful
Amadeus II, from hairersoft. #1 reason why I use it: you can
actually go in and edit the waveform, putting beginning
and ending fades on your audio (for background loops).
You can also combine tracks, and fix minor problems.
iTunes is a free app for burning CDs and (light) manipulation
of audio, but Amadeus II is more robust in manipulating
audio.