AV syc error AFTER! authoring, any ideas?

[Edocecrous]

I use Hauppauge PVR 350, and the output .mpg file has perfect AV sync (of course...)
I digitized a VHS tape, 2 hour of video.
Than i used DVDlab Pro to author it, made a simple menu with a play button, let DVDlab demux the file before using it.

I burned the DVD, and it has AV sync error, and as far as i can tell, it is gradually getting worst, being perfect at the beginning, and coming out of sync more and more as time passes.

I did used DVDlab's 'auto chapters' feature, but the error is there even if i watch it from the beginning and not using chapter points.

The whole thing is weird, since the original mpeg has perfect sync all the way (checked with MPEG vcr). I never had this problem before, and the differences between this compilation and my previous ones:

-got a new 160GB HDD, (still using NTFS tho...),
-used auto chapters in DVD lab,
-the whole VHS was digitized into 1 file (4.6GB) and used that way,
-used 384Kb/s audio (used 256 before)

Any ideas?

THX,
Edocecrous

[DVD_Ripper]

Did DVDLab reencode the MPEG's? ... it shouldn't have if the MPEG's were DVD compliant... it should have generated VOB's, supporting files and then burned away.

[Edocecrous]

Since than i've tried it without the chapter points, and same results, still have the AV delay.

NO, DVDlab did not reencoded my files, since they ARE in DVD format.

That's whay i don't understand...

[NamPla]

It's strange I see posts here all the time about DVDLab and a/v sync troubles...

Surely if your capture is sync'ed up properly, it should stay that way through encoding & authoring & burning.

I'm interested in hearing comments, because I'm thinking of buying DVDLab!

[Brent212]

I've had a lot of experience dealing/coping with this problem. It turns out that the mpg files generated by the Hauppauge is probably not really error free. It plays fine in media player (or other software players), because they are able to cope with the timing errors and keep the AV synch correct. However, once put through an authoring program, somehow the VOB's lose whatever information the software players use to keep the synch, and the AV errors show up. Try renaming one of the VOB's created with DVDLab to .mpg and playing it in media player (or whatever you use to play mpegs). It'll most likely have the same synch errors as the DVD.

There are a few things you can do to fix these errors. One is to use Womble MPEG2VCR, which is sounds like you have. After you capture a file, put it into the GOP fixer tool. Scan it first. If there are no errors, then theoretically (though not always the case), the file should author fine. If there are errors, and you don't want to purchase or use other software, what works for me is simply trimming the file a little bit with womble, using "GOP trim" and then demultiplexing the file and remultiplexing it. For some reason this usually gets rid of the errors and the GOP fixer will scan through it successfully.

If you don't mind paying for another program, VideoRedo seems to be able to solve the problem with one step. Simply open the file up, trim the ends however much you want and save it. The output should author fine, although different authoring programs may give you different results. I've never used DVDLab so I don't know about that one, but it works with TMPGEnc DVD Author and ULead DVD Movie Factory.

One final thing I can say is that for capture settings with the PVR I've read that it's best to use "Program" instead of "DVD" for the output stream type and to use 224 kbit/s, 48 kHz audio. Also, I've had much better results using a constant video bit rate instead of variable. Since I rarely need to fit more than an hour of video on a DVD, I just use 8000 KBits/s constant bit rate, and the errors detected by Womble's GOP Fixer have decreased a lot.

I also recently got a new computer and since then I've capture about 30 tapes with the 8000 CBR setting, and only one of them had errors. On my previous computer I never had a single capture without any errors, so I guess there are more factors involved than I know about.

Getting a good VCR and a time-base corrector also would help probably more than anything, since I think these errors stem from errors in the VHS time code, and stabilizing this will allow the PVR to capture better (plus it improves the picture quality of the video).

One thing that is a good rule of thumb is to always test the authored DVD files in a software player before burning to a DVD. Even if you use a re-writeable to prevent coasters this still saves burning time. You may already do this, I don't know, but if you don't you might want to start.

[Edocecrous]

Brent212, that was a great an troughout post!

I did already the GOP error search with MPEG vcr, and it didn't found any errors. You are right, the authored files do have the error, i checked with a DVD player software.

I've tried to convert the audio to DD stereo, also i did a bitrate conversion too, neither helped.
Also, tried to demultiplex the files with MPEG vcr, and than i used those in the DVDlab to author. No help, same results.

Reading your post, and making a list of what are different from my previous captures (which never had any AV sync problems), i just realized something: While i do not have any GOP errors in the file, this is the first time i actually used a hauppauge file WITHOUT CROPPING IT in MPEG vcr!
So right now that's what i'm doing!

I'll post the results...

And thanx for the help!

[Brent212]

Yes, that reminded me of something else. After scanning a file with the GOP Fixer and finding errors, I have tried to simply use the GOP Fixer to fix them, but that never works. It always yields a file that gets cut off at the first error. But if I trim the file first with MPEG-VCR, and then try to fix the errors with the GOP Fixer, it works. So hopefully trimming it will solve your problem.

[Edocecrous]

As i stated before, my original mpeg file has no GOP errors, not a single one.

I've tried the cropping, but didn't help.
I've tried to demux with MPEG vcr, and use those files, didn't helped either.
I've tried a different (not Pro) version of DVDlab, same results...
I remuxed the DVDlab demuxed file, and the error still appears...
Finally, i just simply demuxed and remuxed the original mpeg, and the error is there...

Right now i concluded that DVDlab pro has nothing to do with the error.
I'm kind of relieved, since i went trough many authoring tools before settled with this one.

Right now i'll record it again, using different settings, and see wat happens...

[Forum Troll]

Get the latest version of VideoReDo, and then run your file thru its Quickstream Fix.

[lordsmurf]

I see this very often on files made by Panasonic DVD recorders.

The fix is this: Open up the MPEG in Womble MPEG Video Wizard, and then clip off a couple of frames from the beginning and end. Let it create a new MP2 audio stream for you, and rewrite the M2V file. The outputted MPEG will be perfect. Demux and convert to another audio format if needed.

No other software named in this thread so far was ever able to help me. PVAStrumento and Restream also were of no help.

The demux was the killer. Fixing the streams took care of it. The audio portion was probably corrupt. I know in the case of the Panasonics, the AC3 is always corrupted when I see this error.

[Brent212]

I'd try out VideoRedo. It has a huge following with Hauppauge users. Go on the VideoRedo forum if you want more info. There's people there from the company who will respond to your questions super fast.

Here's a link:
http://www.drdsystems.com/forum/phpBB2/index.php

[Edocecrous]

I had SO MUCH problems with MPEG video Wizard, that i had to find another program instead of it... MPEG vcr always produced a nice error free, compliant stream, and for editing/cuting/cropping even easier than the VW.

I'll try the VideoReDo, i downloaded the trial already.

If it doesn't fix the problem, i'll rerecord the stuff with different settings, and see what happenes, since i would prefer to stick with the programs i used before:
Hauppauge(WintTV)->MPEG vcr->DVDlab->Nero6

...hmmm VideoReDo just died out on my mpeg file (video ring buffer error), ok, rerecording it is...

[Edocecrous]

After playing around with the settings, VideoReDo was able to chew trough the file (in quickFix), and produced an mpeg, which can be demuxed/muxed without AV sync errors. This file should author just fine.
Now i'm happy.

As for the cause of the error, VideoReDo removed 359 audio resync frames, whatever those are...

Problem looks solved, but i'll try the rerecording too, just to see what happenes...

Thanks guys all the help and ideas!