Question concerning Time Base Correctors/backing up VHStoDVD

[Prohatchetman]

Hey, let me first start off by saying, I collect old pro wrestling tapes and for anyone else who does, they also know that those old tapes will never be released on DVD and we will have to preserve our VHS copies as much as possible.

Recently I've started a new project. I'm going to start backing up all my old tapes to DVD, but in doing this...I've run across a few problems.

Although all of my tapes are master copies, I still have run into a few less than desirable picture problems. Some of my tapes have two versions: a Canadian version and a U.S. version. Unfortunately, I have the Canadian version which is recorded in EP whereas the US version is recorded in SP.

Needless to say, given the time to sit and collect dust, tracking and sometimes picture are often less than desirable. However, for the most part, video quality on my tapes is still pretty good. These EP tapes are only a few, but an important few. Also to be considered is I have former video rental tapes dating all the way back to 88.

Here is my question...since I want to back these tapes up onto DVD and never have to worry about them again, would it be wise to invest in a Time Base Corrector to aid in this process? I've been reading around and people seem to be recommending the AVT-8710 and it has a very reasonable price. Would there be a wiser solution? Lots of people on these boards use Virtual Dub to clean up video, but for some reason, when I capture video using Vegas's Capture program, Virtual Dub says it can't find the correct codec: it reads "Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' unknown. VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable. Only 'Direct Stream Copy' is available for this video"

I am a hardcore collector and have over 60 tapes and my collection grows everyday. Although I am not a professional in the video field, I am a man who loves it and wouldn't mind spending the money if the TBC is the logical way to go.


As it stands now, my method has been to run the VHS tape through my Toshiba DVD/VCR combo, running composite cables from the DVD/VCR to my Canon ZR45 camera using AV/DV out, and using firewire running from my camera to my Belkin Firewire card. My results have been pretty good, but I'm very much a video quality junkie so if it can get better, I'm all for it.

I open the video in Vegas Video 4, cut out what I don't want, and then render to MPEG 2 at 3,000 KB's a second with an audio quality of 48,000 hz and 192 kbps a second. After I'm finished rendering, I create the DVD folders using TMPGenc DVD Author and burn it using CopytoDVD. My results have been good, but like I said, if it can get better, I'm all over it.

Another side question...would it be worth it to attempt to convert the video to progressive scan? Does it improve the picture quality at all...my main purpose is to be able to play them on my non-high def tv.

Thanks a lot.

[Capmaster]

Moved to Capturing Forum. You'll get more information on this topic there.

[Prohatchetman]

Thanks.

[fmctm1sw]

There's another guy here doing the same thing. Posted pictures not even a wek ago. let me see if I can find the thread...

*edit* yeah, here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=233292&highlight=

[Prohatchetman]

Yeah I took a look at that post, my footage isn't that messed up, in fact it's pretty good quality for VHS, and considering that fact, I was wondering if a TBC would be a quality investment.

Also, any help with the VirtualDub problem would be appreciated, considering I've never had that problem with any other editor.

[Dr_Layne]

A TBC should be used for any video tape capturing. Otherwise you will drop frames anytime there's a glitch in the tape. I'm also capturing some pretty rough looking tapes. Many are in PAL so I'm using a multisystem SVHS deck and a video converter. To top things off, the video converter makes the PAL to NTSC image too dark and I have to fix that in post production as well. Using a Com World CMD850 but think I'll upgrade to a Tenlab TR11SVHS. Now that I got off on a tangent, let me say that without a TBC, capturing dodgy VHS tapes would be next to impossible.

Steve

[Prohatchetman]

Thanks. Safe to say, it would most likely improve the video quality of any VHS tape I ran through it as well, right? Even tapes that weren't in that bad of shape?

[VideoTechMan]

Thanks. Safe to say, it would most likely improve the video quality of any VHS tape I ran through it as well, right? Even tapes that weren't in that bad of shape?

Yes it will help. The main job of the TBC is to strip the old signals of the VHS tape and replaces them with new sync timing and also strips all MV protection (if any of your collection are commercial tapes). This in turn will provide a cleaner signal to your computer, even with good condition tapes as well. The Datavideo TBC-1000 is one good example of a good corrector to use and its about $300, though some sites ive seen you can get it for $279.

VTM

[Prohatchetman]

No one has tackled this yet, anyone have any ideas?

When I capture video using Vegas's Capture program and attempt to open it in Virtual Dub, Virtual Dub says it can't find the correct codec: it reads "Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' unknown. VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable. Only 'Direct Stream Copy' is available for this video".

How do I remedy this so I could use the video filters that come with Virtual Dub to preserve my old VHS tapes?

[Dr_Layne]

Are you capturing in DV format? If so VDub cannot read this file without a codec installed.

[BrainStorm69]

VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable. Only 'Direct Stream Copy' is available for this video".

Have you tried VirtualDubMod? It allows the use of WDM rather than VFW drivers, so I assume would work with DirectShow codecs.

[Prohatchetman]

Yes, I am using VirtualDub Mod. I am capturing in DV, however the codec works fine in Vegas Video. How would I install the codec to VirtualDub that reads the files in Vegas?

[fmctm1sw]

Yes, I am using VirtualDub Mod. I am capturing in DV, however the codec works fine in Vegas Video. How would I install the codec to VirtualDub that reads the files in Vegas?

Not sure, but I use panasonic dv codec with virtualdub.

[Prohatchetman]

Thanks alot, i'll give that a shot.

[jrlouie]

I have been corresponding in another forum regarding capturing VHS tapes played on a JVC HRS5912U VCR and a Sony stand alone RDR-GX300 recorder. The tape is only 3 years old and has never been played before. It was recorded with an older Panasonic camcorder. The video quality on the DVD is great, but there are occasional hesitations when playing it. Going through the tape and DVD frame by frame, the tape frames appear fine, but there are duplicate frames on the DVD. It does not occur very often, but is very annoying when it does. Any thoughts on this? Does a TBC just help with dropped frames, or could it help with this problem too? Would using the S video output be better than the composite? I used the composite because I thought it would be one less conversion.

[lordsmurf]

I have been corresponding in another forum regarding capturing VHS tapes played on a JVC HRS5912U VCR and a Sony stand alone RDR-GX300 recorder. The tape is only 3 years old and has never been played before. It was recorded with an older Panasonic camcorder. The video quality on the DVD is great, but there are occasional hesitations when playing it. Going through the tape and DVD frame by frame, the tape frames appear fine, but there are duplicate frames on the DVD. It does not occur very often, but is very annoying when it does. Any thoughts on this? Does a TBC just help with dropped frames, or could it help with this problem too? Would using the S video output be better than the composite? I used the composite because I thought it would be one less conversion.

This is dropped frames.

[deckard8]

I capture vhs video using virtualdub no problem when the source is decent quality, but with poor quality, old worn tapes virtualdub drops frames like crazy, so for these I capture with FlyDS and get no dropped frames.

[jrlouie]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I am fairly new at this. What you are saying is that if a frame is dropped, the DVD recorder puts in a duplicate frame rather than skipping a frame. I assumed that if frame 2 from 1 2 3 were dropped that it would go from 1 to 3, but apparently it would go 1 1 3. Is this correct?

Would going to the S video connection help, or is a TBC really the only way to eliminate the problem?

Thanks for your help.

[gshelley61]

It may have a drop out correction feature that might duplicate the most recent frame to "fill in" the missed one; that's possible. Also, there are some duplicate frames created in the conversion from 24 fps film sources to 30 fps NTSC video, so maybe that is what you are observing.

Using the s-video input wouldn't help. The only difference between composite video and s-video is that the luma and chroma (Y and C) signals are separated ("decoded") with s-video. Timing and sync would be the same either way.

Your DVD recorder likely has a very nice built-in adaptive comb filter for Y/C separation (which is necessary for MPEG2 encoding), so in many cases your best results will occur by using the composite input anyway. Sometimes when you use the s-video output of a playback device (S-VHS VCR, laserdisc player, etc.) that has an inferior comb filter, you wind up with dot crawl and other artifacts.

[lordsmurf]

... and other artifacts.

Chroma noise and gamma errors (which can be mistaken for IRE or brightness problems).

I find VHS is often best left composite.

[jrlouie]

I don't follow the comment about duplicate frames:

there are some duplicate frames created in the conversion from 24 fps film sources to 30 fps NTSC video

I am going from home movies from a vhs camcorder. (We now have a Sony mini-DVD camcorder.) Isn't VHS recorded at 30fps?

Also, I have checked the frames on the tape and the DVD, and no frame is missing, but one has been duplicated. Sony's support said they did not know why a duplicate frame would be recorded. I am considering exhanging the unit. but I'ld like to make sure the problem is actually with the unit rather than something that will happen again without a tbc or just because the frame rate is different.

I thought DV woudl be easier than this by now.

[/quote]

[gshelley61]

I don't follow the comment about duplicate frames:

there are some duplicate frames created in the conversion from 24 fps film sources to 30 fps NTSC video

I am going from home movies from a vhs camcorder. (We now have a Sony mini-DVD camcorder.) Isn't VHS recorded at 30fps?

I thought DV woudl be easier than this by now.

You are correct. With home video (or any NTSC videotape original source) there is no telecine (film to video) framerate conversion necessary because it is already 30 fps to start with. Actually, to be more precise, it is 29.97 frames per second.

[wanslenowski]

I was having the vhs to dvd blues one day capturing with my dazzle digital video creator 150 and decided to try running the video through my dazzle hollywood bridge first. This corrected the problem and everything always stays in sync. Why is this? Does the dazzle hollywood bridge have a tbc??