Which Computer for Video Production? ITS OVER!!! FINALLY!

[dosun]

It is AUGUST 2004. I suggest all posters stop dwelling on the past of PCs, and worry about how things are RIGHT NOW. That's what I've been doing. Nobody cares about systems made in 2003 and 2002 or whatever. Right now. August. 2004.

1) The Dell system I linked you is being sold RIGHT NOW on Dell.com. Its Dells flagship gamer system. Here is the link in case you have trouble finding it. Its the same thing as this computer with a faster processor, updated motherboard(support for pci express) and an better video card. Its still a nonstandard motherboard with a nonstandard powersupply in a nonstandard case. So don't bs everybody and say Dell uses standard ATX components.

2) You claimed "The days of proprietary crap (Packard Bell, NEC, etc) have long, long been over. You're stuck in the 286/386/486/PI days." So why does it matter if the article is two or three years old? Three years ago wasn't 286, 386, 486, PI days. It was the Piii, P4, Athlon Thunderbird and Athlop XP days. Of course proprietary hardware was in existant back then and it still is here NOW IN AUGUST 2004 and it isn't going away in the near future.

the new systems have been switched back to a standard ATX PSU (Not the case or MB mind you just the PSU)

Nope, still using proprietary power supplies on some of their systems. Their 4600 series uses a proprietary connector to connect the psu to the motherboard. Yes, this IS a current line and IS being sold on Dell.com right now. Whats worse is that to the naked eye, it looks like a regular plug except when you plug it in it doesn't work and probably will fry your motherboard. If you want more info, you can look at Dell's tech specs for the 4600 series and look at the standard atx specs.

[dnix71]

If you want to do video and don't have a lot of money to spend, consider an eMac.
For $1100, new, you can get the 1.25GHz/40GB HD/256 MB ddr333 G4 with separate USB 2.0 and 1.1 controllers, 32MB built-in AGP, usb keyboard and usb optical mouse, 17 inch flat crt, firewire ports, 10/100 and V92 modem built-in, slot for wireless card and support for BlueTooth, built-in combo cd burner/dvd rom and an external 8X DVD Pioneer 107 +/- burner in a firewire enclosure.
The clock speed might seem slow compared to pc's, but since OS X doesn't get viruses, you won't have 6 antivirus and email scanning processes using your cpu and ram and won't have to pay for an antivirus or download updates daily.
The eMac supports up to a gig of ram, and with usb 2.0 and firewire ports you can add external hard drives if you need more space.
Plus, with Virtual PC(sold separately), if you absolutely can't find a program in OS X, or Classic (OS9 comes built-in, too, it's like running 98 under XP) you can still run you Windows application on the same computer.
If you want to see whats available for free in OS X, visit www.sourceforge.net. Almost any UNIX or Linux app can run on a mac, because the FreeBSD subsystem comes preinstalled.

[jimmalenko]

If you want to do video and don't have a lot of money to spend, consider an eMac.
For $1100, new, you can get the 1.25GHz/40GB HD/256 MB ddr333 G4 with separate USB 2.0 and 1.1 controllers, 32MB built-in AGP, usb keyboard and usb optical mouse, 17 inch flat crt, firewire ports, 10/100 and V92 modem built-in, slot for wireless card and support for BlueTooth, built-in combo cd burner/dvd rom and an external 8X DVD Pioneer 107 +/- burner in a firewire enclosure.
The clock speed might seem slow compared to pc's, but since OS X doesn't get viruses, you won't have 6 antivirus and email scanning processes using your cpu and ram and won't have to pay for an antivirus or download updates daily.
The eMac supports up to a gig of ram, and with usb 2.0 and firewire ports you can add external hard drives if you need more space.
Plus, with Virtual PC(sold separately), if you absolutely can't find a program in OS X, or Classic (OS9 comes built-in, too, it's like running 98 under XP) you can still run you Windows application on the same computer.
If you want to see whats available for free in OS X, visit www.sourceforge.net. Almost any UNIX or Linux app can run on a mac, because the FreeBSD subsystem comes preinstalled.

OMG.

[Bearbegr]

Why are those types of computers parts so old? I.E. the 1.2 GHz Processor...

[dosun]

@Bearbegr
I found some information regarding the Ebay Dell PC when I was looking at the specs of the psu. According to Dell's documentation, the 4600 series has two external 5.25 bays, an AGP slot and 3 PCI slots. Since everything is integrated according to the auction specs, you should have the agp slot free and all three pci slots free. There should be room for one more 5.25 drive(one is already occupied by the preloaded dvd drive). So you should be able to install a DVD burner. All this information is gotten from looking at Dell's specs comparing them with the Ebay auction(assuming all 4600s are created equal). If something is different don't blame me.

[Bearbegr]

@Bearbegr
I found some information regarding the Ebay Dell PC when I was looking at the specs of the psu. According to Dell's documentation, the 4600 series has two external 5.25 bays, an AGP slot and 3 PCI slots. Since everything is integrated according to the auction specs, you should have the agp slot free and all three pci slots free. There should be room for one more 5.25 drive(one is already occupied by the preloaded dvd drive). So you should be able to install a DVD burner. All this information is gotten from looking at Dell's specs comparing them with the Ebay auction(assuming all 4600s are created equal). If something is different don't blame me.

Thanks for the research... This looks as though this is the PC Im getting... Now its just about where and how to get it... Ebay auction, or wait for those deals... I think I will wait... Hopefully not for long!...

[dosun]

You might want to reconsider. Those systems only come with a 250w PSU. Depending on how much more components you want to add, that may not be enough. Despite what lordsmurf claims, you can not just stick a better power supply in there. You'd have to buy one from Dell and pay them nice premium. There might be adaptors out there, but I'm not sure how well they work.

[jimmalenko]

@dosun:
let it go already re: lordsmurf.

Good point about 250W PSU though. I would be looking at a 400W.

[lordsmurf]

I run 500W on mine. I'd do no less.
Maybe 400W on a barebones.

[dosun]

jimmalenko I don't understand why you continue to direct comments at me regarding my posts. Would you like to see the poor guy buy his Dell computer, realizes the psu isn't good enough, buys a regular psu, and have a fried computer with a voided warranty because he followed what is perceived to be a forum expert's advice?

[Bearbegr]

You might want to reconsider. Those systems only come with a 250w PSU. Depending on how much more components you want to add, that may not be enough. Despite what lordsmurf claims, you can not just stick a better power supply in there. You'd have to buy one from Dell and pay them nice premium. There might be adaptors out there, but I'm not sure how well they work.

How much does the upgrade cost? Which ones come with the 250s??? The ones that you order from dell, do they have 250 ones?

[budz]

jimmalenko wrote:

In all fairness LS, a lot of the computers from 2003 and 2002 would still be under warranty and so they are still relevant to the discussion. Also, I'm sure a lot of people here may not have bought a new computer since before 2002 and so are only speaking from experiences back then. Regardless of whether information is factual or misinformed, I think everyone needs to show a bit more mutual respect and take some posts with a grain of salt.

dosun wrote:

You might want to reconsider. Those systems only come with a 250w PSU. Depending on how much more components you want to add, that may not be enough. Despite what lordsmurf claims, you can not just stick a better power supply in there. You'd have to buy one from Dell and pay them nice premium. There might be adaptors out there, but I'm not sure how well they work.

I with dosun that sticking in a new power supply would not be wise. Why risk frying your motherboard!!! Even though that link I posted is old and talks about pcs years ago & with the links that dosun posted I wouldn't suggest purchasing that DELL pc from EBAY or from DELL PC period.

OMG! I didn't think this thread would still be going on and on and on!

To Bearbegr: Best advice is buy a computer that will fit your budget and needs.

[Bearbegr]

So when you talk about not having enough power... What could possibly take up all the power? I am only going to add a DVD RW for now... that okay right?

I have an old Dell laptop that is still going at full power... So I really trust Dells... That should fit my needs, and Is exactly in my budget... Below Budget if I find another deal like the other that ended recently...

[budz]

So when you talk about not having enough power... What could possibly take up all the power? I am only going to add a DVD RW for now... that okay right?

I have an old Dell laptop that is still going at full power... So I really trust Dells... That should fit my needs, and Is exactly in my budget... Below Budget if I find another deal like the other that ended recently...

Buy the bloody DELL PC because it seems that is what you want! If you wanna buy it go for it. Sorry if I'm being pushy & impatient but in all of your postings you've asked so many questions & people replied back to you and they gave their suggestions. It seems you don't wanna hear what anyone has to say. And it's like you want someone to say, "YES! Buy that DELL PC"! All I can see is you running around in circles. You've got the suggestions & experiences from others so just go ahead and purchase the DELL PC because you trust them. As the old motto goes, " LIVE & LEARN".

[richdvd]

BUY THE DELL...DO IT!!!!!!!
Just don't come back here whining once you get it.

[Bearbegr]

Rude Much???

What I have in these posts is a bunch of contradicting answers... Some say Dell works, some dont... Its awsome how everyone is helping and answering my questions...

I think when I posted this topic, I should not have said For "Video Editing"... This makes it sound like I am going to be making major DVDs, plugging in my camera and creating DVDs, etc. All I am going to do is Burn DVD... I have VCD that need to go to DVD... Thats pretty much it... I alos want it to play some minor games... Nothing with tons of Graphics...

When I posted this add, I was under the impression that 1000 dollers was going to get me a great Computer. I was wrong aperently... I was picturing a flat panal monitor, DVD RW, DVD Rom, Card REader, and all of these accesories that I probably would not even use as much as I thought I would.

One thing may be that what really nice to me is not as nice to you... Right now I have a Sony VAIO Laptop PCG-FRV25. I Find this Machine to Works Great, and does everything I want, it just does not burn DVDs and allow me to edit them do to the fact of its 40 GB HD that is partially taken up by the Partition for restoring the computer to its factory setting. That is really annoying by the way because I am afraid to delete things because I think I may need them in the future... Anyways, I am not exactly a person who needs top of the line because I do not do top of the line things... Maybe after this one I will know what to do and how to do it...

So all in all thanks people for helping me out... Im still confused, but think that a Dell is what I want to get. I feel better with a worrenty that lasts longer then one year. Also, when I went to the local PC shop to see about custom built, it came up with Crappy parts for almost 1000! I think they thought I was a moron or somthing (no comments please!) I am really not going to be upgrading it except for:

DVD RW Drive right away
More RAm (down the road)
Maybe a bigger HD (way way down the road)

Thats it... Nothing else... No Graphics card or anything... I dont think my Laptop has much of a graphics card, and it does all I need except size and speed...

I can not believe how long this post has gone on, and I am happy it has! I have gotten a lot of information... Now I just need to sort it all out...

Thanks to all who are helping...

[jimmalenko]

jimmalenko I don't understand why you continue to direct comments at me regarding my posts. Would you like to see the poor guy buy his Dell computer, realizes the psu isn't good enough, buys a regular psu, and have a fried computer with a voided warranty because he followed what is perceived to be a forum expert's advice?

As indo would say,

Read it again, dumbass

@dosun:
let it go already re: lordsmurf.

Good point about 250W PSU though. I would be looking at a 400W.

Does this, or does it not, acknowledge that I agree with your PSU point ?

[bengsj]

It seems you have your mind made up. Your Dell friends will probably be more help to you, since you want a Dell. I opinion is that most dells gateways try to sell you the lamest parts they can get you to buy. But if you now what you are looking for then you should get what you want and you dell freinds should be able to help you there.

Most people that now computers parts (my opinion) build there own eventually. I like biulding my own because I know I'm getting the most for my money and I know exactly what my system is upgradable to. Plus I learn alot and a better prepaird to fix my own problems. Sometimes customer support can be useless. But I think one of the repliers is right, there is probably less/or hopefully no proprietary parts in Dell/Gateways/ these days (which is the WORST THING).


Just make sure you get plenty of disk space; no less then ***200gig
at least 512meg of ram
a good DVD Wrighter no less ther 8x (in my opinion)
mid range sound and video would do
and I prefer INTEL no less then p4 2.8

BTW, the above items (with the exception of maybe ram type) should be upgradable with out buying a new system.


just my opinion

[thinger62]

I think Dell power supplies are pretty decent. Skimping on that would cost them money in the long run. I used to use a 2300 with 2 hard drives and 2 optical drives crammed in. I had to tape one of the hard drives to the case as there was no place to put it. I used it for a year without any problems. I would not get a Dell if upgrading the power supply was in the future, though I'm not sure if there is much of a need to upgrade it. You mentioned $1000. If that is your budget, you can put together a nice machine for that price, expecially if you watch for deals on things like the mobo and cpu, memory and hard drives.

[dosun]

Does this, or does it not, acknowledge that I agree with your PSU point ?

The point I'm trying to make has nothing to do with the power level of the PSU. It regards the first part of the comment. "re. let lordsmurf go" You make it sound like I'm flaming him. You don't understand the seriousness of the situation. The guy could be listening to him because some people think he is an expert while his information is blatenly wrong. Then the computer becomes unusable with a voided warranty.

It seems that you are trying to defend him regarding this subject. Other posters and I have clearly proven him wrong and I think he is competent enough to defend himself. I have nothing against the guy nor do I have anything against you. He claimed my information was wrong and I posted up facts to show that it was correct. It'd be nice if he responded to any of my points directly with some facts instead of flaming, giving the run around or at the very least be a man and admit he's wrong.

[Bearbegr]

I think Dell power supplies are pretty decent. Skimping on that would cost them money in the long run. I used to use a 2300 with 2 hard drives and 2 optical drives crammed in. I had to tape one of the hard drives to the case as there was no place to put it. I used it for a year without any problems. I would not get a Dell if upgrading the power supply was in the future, though I'm not sure if there is much of a need to upgrade it. You mentioned $1000. If that is your budget, you can put together a nice machine for that price, expecially if you watch for deals on things like the mobo and cpu, memory and hard drives.

I know I can get one built, but I cant build it... I can do the drives and stuff, but not the motherboard and loading the Bios? Whatever that is. Thanks for the information.

[overclockxp]

One problem with the ebay auction...

When you get it and there are 4 dead pixels who's going to service the thing? What about when a hard drive fails? etc? Make sure it has a warranty. Price is too good to be true in reality. Probably a refurbished item. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

[thinger62]

You'd be surprised how easy it is. There are plenty of tutorials on the net, with pictures too. You'd also be surprised at the feeling you get when you boot up the computer you made for the first time.

[ggarman]

Here's my 2 cents:

I am a computer consultant that has been in the biz for 15+ years, I've built several machines and I have also purchased Dells.

Personally, I recommend to all my clients to buy Dell, particularly from their OptiPlex and Latitude lines. These are their business class machines and they carry a 3 year on-site warranty standard...you can't beat that.

True, Dells are somewhat proprietary, you will be able to upgrade the any of the drives, memory and depending on the model and case, upgrade the video and the CPU chip.

Dell has a top-notch support website when it comes to documentation and drivers. They even have on their website the full support docs that show you exactly how to disassemble/assemble any machine...this is especially helpful when working on a laptop. Right now, I'm helping a friend who bought a Compaq Presario 1201z laptop for $75, the Compaq/HP website was absolutely no help, nearly zero drivers for the machine.

I work for a 100,000+ employee company that has almost completely standardized on Dell machines, I also happen to work with the guys that evaluate all new machines coming in from all the computer companies. Hands down Dell is the most stable and the most willing to work with us to fix issues. I also work with a Dell Tech Rep and I've been able to get a glimpse into how the company runs behind the scenes...they are top-notch all the way through.

An agrument about their proprietary nature, they design, build and test extensively their machines, when a company designs machines they are able to control the quality a lot better than a machine, such as Gateway, that builds there's out of the cheapest parts they can get their hands on, which is the down fall of going with a industry standard company.

Personally, if I wanted a screaming machine tailored to a specific function, I would build it myself. In your case, I would either recommend going with a Dell, look at their refurb/outlet site you can get some awesome deals their and they are fully warranted, all 8 of the ones I've purchased through them have been through the outlet. Or build one yourself using all of the information available on review websites about each part. Or lastly, do your homework, buy all the parts off the web yourself and have someone put it together for you.

Be very careful going to a local shop and just ask for a machine, they will most likely use cheap parts and charge you way to much for the parts.

I consider Dell to be the best pre-built machines all the others are either over priced, Sony, made of crappy parts, Gateway, or just crappy, HP. Most can't hold a candle to Dell's warranty.

Ok, maybe this was 3 cents worth...

Hope this helps,
Greg

[Bearbegr]

Thanks for all the information! I would build one, but it takes a lot to get the parts together, and their is no warrenty... With the computer troubles that I always seem to come up, I really need it.

[overclockxp]

Getting the parts together takes no longer than ordering one from Dell. I already helped you put a basic system together. Warranty is per each individual part, not the system as a whole. With all of the posting and reading you could have researched and bought the parts by now. Anyways...

Check out Fatwallet Hot Deals Forum. There are always deals on computers, computer parts, monitors, dvd burners, etc.

[smearbrick1]

I just bought a Dimension 8400 from Dell. With coupon codes (found at various places on the web. Just do search on Google for "Dell coupon codes".) I got free shipping and 15% off. All of this, plus a $150.00 rebate, free printer (crap), and a free flat panel upgrade for only $1,100.00.

Oh, and by the way, don't tell me Dell is not upgradeable. I just got rid of my 8100 (originally P4 423 socket) and I upgraded everything on it including the socket 423 processor to a faster 478 socket P4. Really, the only issue I have will Dell is their motherboards aren't ATX form factor and some of the components they choose are not the greatest. But you are not required to purchase upgrades through Dell! I have never purchased anything other than a full system from Dell and will never purchase any upgrades through them because they are ridiculous in price.

EDIT***

I've recently learned that my motherboard is not as NON-ATX form factor as I thought it was. Another plus+++

Also, new Dell PCs don't have the quality seal sticker on them (at least my doesn't). Only thing I would have improved is:
I would have allowed for IDE and SATA on the same MOBO (currently, you are stuck with SATA only. If you have several large capacity IDE drives, you have to use an ULTRA ATA Card.) This leads me to complaint number 2:

More PCI Slots!!! I think there is only about 4 PCI slots and 1 PCI xpress slot.

[thecoalman]

Why are those types of computers parts so old? I.E. the 1.2 GHz Processor...

That's cause it's a Mac. Just like a AMD 2200 runs at 1.8ghz but is comparable to a 2.2ghz P4. You'd have to look it up to find out what the Mac processor is eqaul too.

Due to your limited budget you really haven't left too many options available. I stand by my original suggestion. Look at the cheaper Dell or Gateway's since that is what your budget dictates you can purchase and the prices on those systems are really good. If you want to spend a few more bucks head over to the site I suggested, they do have machines starting at about $800. If want to be adveturous you can always build it yourself which I would definitley think about. Good Luck!

[Bearbegr]

Thanks for more info... Now I just have to wait for a sale of some kind on them... Im not doing the Ebay thing since I could possibly get it cheaper and be the original owner and get it direct from them... LMK if anyone find a sale or somthing on them... I was a 17" Flat monitor instead of the 15"... so LMK

[overloaded_ide]

When I posted this add, I was under the impression that 1000 dollers was going to get me a great Computer. I was wrong aperently... I was picturing a flat panal monitor, DVD RW, DVD Rom, Card REader, and all of these accesories that I probably would not even use as much as I thought I would.

$1,000? Gee you don't have alot to spend do you
Leave out the expensive flat panel monitor and go with a nice normal monitor and I could build you 2 or 3 great systems for $1,000!
By flat pannel, you are reffering to like LCD I geuss.

Anyway if you check out gotapex.com you'll probably find lots of great coupon codes and deals for Dell. gotapex.com is nothing wierd, no popups or nothing crappy. Just a great site to find great deals like coupons and specail deals for Dells, Gatways, $30 off $150 order at staples, officemax, office depot etc.... Just whatever the currant bargains are at tons of places. They don't sell anything and nothing anoying about the site, I check them out often myself for deals at office max etc...

As for a Dell, if that's what you want, look at the daily specails
This one is supposed to end tonight,

DellSB - Dimension 4600 with 2.8Ghz P4, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 80GB HD, CD-RW, 2 Year Warranty for $449 after Rebate with FREE Shipping!
It`s set to expire tonight (though the last one was pulled hours ahead of time), so use it or lose it. Their outrageous desktop Dimension 4600 is back, and down to only $449 level thanks to an instant $280 discount & $150 rebate, plus you get the following FREE upgrades: 80GB HD ($20 value), CD-RW drive ($40 value), 128MB NVIDIA GeForce FX5200 AGP card with DVI & TV output ($60 value), Sound Blaster Live 24-Bit Advanced HD Audio PCI card ($20 value), 3.5" floppy drive ($20 value), and a 2 year warranty (a $113 value). You`re getting this Dimension 4600 with a fast 2.8Ghz Pentium 4 processor, i865p chipset motherboard (8x AGP slot, 2 S-ATA ports, etc), 256MB of dual channel DDR SDRAM, and Windows XP Home. Shipping is free.

I'm not saying that is or is not a good deal, it's just the first one posted!
I think there's 6 Dell deals posted on the front page alone right now.

Being as I build systems, I highly recommend shopping around, look at newegg.com and get some prices of what it would actually cost you to build your own. NEVER go to a local store to buy a system untill you do!!!
Even if you buy a prebuilt system, you should know what the parts would cost if you built it yourself, or one similar.

Beware at least 75% of computer problems are probably user error and that is not covered by most waurantees!!
Delete the wrong files and need fresh install, do it yourself or pay the price, not covered! Hit with virus, not covered! Install software that causes system crashes, fixin it is not covered! Sure sometimes a hard drive goes bad, that's covered, but then again buy a maxtor with 3 year waurantee and it's covered anyway by Maxtor just call them and ship it back. Costs you maybe $6 for UPS, big deal.

If you have a problem like I had today it may or may not be covered, not covered if you installed any drives yourself for sure!
Booted up wifes system, run awhile then crashed, would not boot a few times. Finally booted but wrong drive! Oh OH, I lost the main boot drive, now what. It had been making noises sometimes, spinning up wierd, crashed once before. Then I found I could not get to the slave drive either!What would you do??

Well I looked in device manager, neither hard drive was showing on IDE 1, I had booted to the secondary IDE slave drive. I shut down the system, pushed the Ide drive connecters onto the motherboard, both had loosened and were not all the way in. No more problems!
Why they came loose I don't know, just one of those things, but the 1 cable was not working and why 2 of my drives failed to be seen.

That's the advantage of building your own stuff, you can fix it too!
If it were a Dell or other I would be waiting a day or two or maybe even till Monday before the system would be working again, when they send some guy out to press the cables on!! Even worse if I had to take a system into a shop, or send it back to the company UPS!!!
Would I have to pay? Most likely yes, if any extra drives had been installed since I got it, they would probably claim that's why the cable was loose! Don't know if the Dell guy would care or not.

As for building it yourself, the hardest part is figuring out what parts you want to buy. My 13 year old has assembled computers already. True she had me showing her how when she was about 11, and watching me build them since she was about 8. But still a 13 yr old! Nothing hard about it.
All your parts will carry a manufactor warauntee at least. Buy from a great place like newegg.com for trouble free service. RMA is returning a defective part for a new one, and most the stuff you buy you can RMA back to newegg and they take care of it and send you a replacemnet soon as they get the old one back. In thoughsands of dollars worth of parts I only ever had to RMA back to them twice, both times was easy. No headaches or problems.

Alot of people would rather by prebuilt, and that's fine. Just know that all there is really to building most new computers is a few screws and plugging in some cables basically, a couple of clips like mounting the CPU heatsink. As far as software, not a big deal and you have to do it anyway if you ever upgrade the drive or have to reformat because of a virus!