Which Computer for Video Production? ITS OVER!!! FINALLY!

[jimmalenko]

I just did a quote:



Add $199.00 for a printer and you're looking at AUD$1406.20, which = USD$1,017.80

Thats AUD? I thought it was US... Thats right around what I want to spend... So how do I build that? Can I find the parts cheaper than offered at that site?

That is an Australian supplier. My work get all our computer equipment from there and so do I personally. I'm sure there would be a US-based site that you could select the same parts and see how it stacks up.

[lordsmurf]

@jimmalenko
Seriously, that's not an issue anymore. Compaq, Sony, HP, Dell, they are all fine with opening the system. They won't hang up on you or charge you money if you open the system and add stuff.

Dell did it to us, so I speak from experience. We removed the tower case cover, which broke the sticker they put on the back of the case. They refused to honour the warranty because of this, even though we didn't modify anything.

How recent was this? In the past couple of years, this kind of thing has fallen to the wayside.

Would have been about 8 months ago now. Needless to say, it was the last brand name PC we bought. (We as in the company I work for).

You got screwed. It may also depend on a few other things.

[Bearbegr]

Is this a good configuration? Places like Newegg.com have dvd burners for 59.99... Can you buy these parts for better prices other places?

[thecoalman]

I just did a quote:



Add $199.00 for a printer and you're looking at AUD$1406.20, which = USD$1,017.80

You forgot the video card..... It's roughly the same as the computer I first posted. Price and configuration.

[jimmalenko]

Post the price in $AUD back here, then convert to your local currency. I would be interested to see if the prices are comparable.

I compared them.. came out to 1400 AUD which is a little more than $1000 USD there about the same but there wasn't the exact same components. DVD player was different, i had to select generic ram beacuse the geil wasn't listed, i dunno maybe Geil is Generic Ram etc.

I guess that as good a comparison as you can get.

Good to see that the prices are pretty similar.

[jimmalenko]

You forgot the video card.....

Onboard video and audio.

[budz]

Places like Newegg.com have dvd burners for 59.99... Can you buy these parts for better prices other places?

Newegg has the best prices for components. I purchased the ASUS motherboard, pent 4 chip, and memory from them. I purchased optical drives from a another online pc store. video card, case and hard drive I purchased locally from compusa. It's easier to return a video card, case and hard drive locally for me. Motherboard, Pent 4 chip and memory is cheaper to purchase from Newegg.com although the shipping to hawaii is so expensive. It's still cheaper for me to buy those components than getting it from a local pc shop here in hawaii.

That $59.99 dvd burner @ Newegg.com is the Liteon 812S which is great buy. I'm thinking of picking one up for myself! Like I really need another dvd burner!

[Bearbegr]

this is pretty much a list of everything I need right... (by this I mean from the australian site) Awhile ago, I was looking for things for building one on the net... I came across a few things, but do not know if they are what I need...

SAMSUNG 160GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
$88.95

NEC 8X Black DVD+/-RW Drive
$59.99

AMD Athlon 64 3000+,512KB L2 Cache 64-bit
$175.00

SOLTEK "SL-K8AN2E-GR" NVIDIA nForce3 250 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 754
$99

I dont even know if these things even work together or if they are any good... Are they? They all are at Newegg.com

[thecoalman]

Onboard video and audio.

Yaaaawn

Bearbegr,

How about there cheapest one http://www.abspc.com/app/config.asp?mono=1621 $829, Smaller hard drive (but still a SATA) and a crap video card. Anyhow I need to go, good luck and look around.

[lordsmurf]

This is still a bit expensive compared to deals online and shopping at good stores like Fry's. If you're building to save money, then go all the way. The only catch is it may take 2-3 weeks to get all the parts assembled.

If you're going to buy a pre-built PC, I'd definitely go for a brand name and not the local PC fly-by-night shop.

[jimmalenko]

Onboard video and audio.

Yaaaawn

No shit-hot video card required for a video production PC.

[thecoalman]

How about this one, http://www.abspc.com/app/config.asp?mono=1706 you could blow half your budget onthis component:

Couldn't find a icom but just think of this sentence as a guy drooling.

[thecoalman]

Onboard video and audio.

Yaaaawn

No shit-hot video card required for a video production PC.

It is for me I create a lot of 3-d animations.

[jimmalenko]

You got screwed. It may also depend on a few other things.

Yep, so we screwed them back. They won't get another cent from us and our word of mouth will cost them sales elsewhere also.

One smart-ass techie cost them plenty. Their loss.

[jimmalenko]

It is for me I create a lot of 3-d animations.

Onboard doesn't cut it ?

I sorta felt that the video card was expendable for a reasonable video editing machine and other components required a certain grunt.

[Bearbegr]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-156-148&DEPA=1

Is this a good case? I kinda wanted one with the window... lol... What is required to make a PC? Can someone give me a list? Those things I found on newegg I have no idea about... are they any good? are they required?

[jimmalenko]

The bare essentials:

Processor
Motherboard
case (normally has power supply with it)
RAM
Hard Drive
Video card (sometimes on the motherboard)
Audio card (sometimes on the motherboard)

Of course you won't get any software or drivers on without at least something that can read CDs and/or a 1.44MB Floppy drive.

[jimmalenko]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-156-148&DEPA=1

Is this a good case? I kinda wanted one with the window... lol... What is required to make a PC? Can someone give me a list? Those things I found on newegg I have no idea about... are they any good? are they required?

That looks pretty good to me. I think the budget you're working with might not stretch that far though.

[budz]

Is this a good case? I kinda wanted one with the window... lol... What is required to make a PC? Can someone give me a list? Those things I found on newegg I have no idea about... are they any good? are they required?

Check this website on how to build a pent 3 pc. Yes I know you'll be building a pent 4 pc but the basics are the same.

http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/buildcom/pent3/pent3_1.htm

I used this guide on building my first pc which was a pent 3. Print out the pages and read it over. I would suggest getting a Antec power supply with whatever case you decide on purchasing.

[thecoalman]

Onboard doesn't cut it ?

I sorta felt that the video card was expendable for a reasonable video editing machine and other components required a certain grunt.

True.....

Bearbegr

Take a look at the configuration from the site I sent you too. Those systems are tested. Then put it together on newegg. -or- Basically you have to pick your motherboard and go from there. Make sure the components you pick are compatible with the board, specifically the processor and the ram.

[Bearbegr]

Isnt puting the processor and motherboard complicated?

[dosun]

@dosun,
You don't know shit. Your articles are old. The people in them, didn't know shit either. That ATX issue is merely a pin connector adapter in need. $5 at any computer parts store. Overclockers dinking with BIOS chips (stupid). A Dell motherboard (again, bitching about overclocking, most people don't care) .. branded DELL too, duh.

I've seen your pass "recommendations" regarding pcs. They are usually uninformed. The articles I posted up are from the past three years(with the Dell pc being less than one year old and its still the same being sold NOW). According to you, nonstandard issues are from the 486 days. Maybe you were using a 486 three years ago, but I wasn't. I didn't say that it wouldn't work, I just said it was nonstandard. You claimed "It's no more non-standard than picking out your own parts at Fry's or CompUSA." Having a different bios and having to call the parents company's tech support when something goes wrong is NONSTANDARD. Having a case that is NOT atx standard, is NONSTANDARD. Having a powersupply where you have to gamble with an adaptor is NONSTANDARD. You claimed what I said was baloney and I have evidence to back up what I said. I don't see you putting anything up other than your "experience."

[Bearbegr]

Take a look at the configuration from the site I sent you too. Those systems are tested. Then put it together on newegg. -or- Basically you have to pick your motherboard and go from there. Make sure the components you pick are compatible with the board, specifically the processor and the ram

How do you know what compatible and whats not?

[budz]

Isnt puting the processor and motherboard complicated?

read that link i gave you and you'll see it's not that complicated as you think.

[jimmalenko]

http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/buildcom/pent3/pent3_1.htm

Good god ! A P3 450 slot ! Oh well, I guess our P2 400 slots look real old now.

[Bearbegr]

When you buy a barbones kit, what is already done for you? Anything?

[Bearbegr]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1002461&CatId=1226

Like this one

[thecoalman]

Onboard doesn't cut it ?.

No it doesn't cut it, I did a 4 second animation that took 7 hours to render on 9800 pro. Many many polygons. Might have a lot to do with the software as it renders the shape at full quality regardless of the size

Edit: at full quality when full quality is selected.

[budz]

Regarding DELL NOT USING STANDARD INDUSTRY COMPONENTS such as MOTHERBOARDS & POWER SUPPLIES.

http://www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com/articles/upgrade3_01_01.asp

This is from that article:

Dell proprietary (non-standard) ATX design

If you currently own or are considering purchasing a desktop system from Dell you will definitely want to pay attention to this section. There is a potential booby-trap waiting to nail the unsuspecting Dell owner who decides to upgrade either the motherboard or power supply in their system. This hidden trap can cause the destruction of the motherboard, power supply or both! OK, now that I have your attention, read on…

As those of you who have attended my seminars or read previous editions of this book will know, I have long been a promoter of industry standard PCs and components, and wouldn't think of purchasing a desktop PC that didn't have what I considered an industry standard form factor motherboard, power supply and chassis (ATX for example). I've been down the proprietary road before with systems from Packard Bell, Compaq, IBM and other companies that used custom, unique or proprietary components. For example during a momentary lapse of reason in the early-'90s I had purchased a Packard Bell system. I quickly outgrew the capabilities of the system so I thought I'd upgrade it with a new motherboard along with a faster processor. It was then to my horror that I discovered that LPX systems were non-standard and due to riser card differences, there was virtually no interchangeability of motherboards, riser cards, chassis and power supplies. I had what I now refer to as a "disposable PC". The kind you can't upgrade, but have to throw away instead. Suddenly the money I thought I had saved when initially purchasing the system paled in comparison to what I'd now have to spend to completely replace it. Lesson learned.

In a similar experience, I remember paying over $950 to IBM parts for a replacement 114W power supply to fit my PS/2 P75 luggable which had a power supply failure out of warranty. The supply had a totally unique shape and a weird connector I had never seen before, and there were no alternative choices available from any other companies. The system wasn't even worth that much at the time, but I was using it for work and had no choice but to pay the price to get it replaced. And of course the replacement was the same relatively low output 114W unit, as there were simply no other versions available that would fit. Another lesson learned.

After several upgrade and repair experiences like that I decided never again would I be trapped by systems using proprietary or non-standard components. By purchasing only systems built from industry standard parts, I could easily and inexpensively upgrade, maintain, or repair the system for many years into the future. I have been preaching the gospel of industry standard components in my seminars and in this book ever since.

Of course building your own system from scratch is one way to avoid proprietary components, but often that route is more costly in both time and money than purchasing a pre-built system. And what systems should I recommend for people who want an inexpensive pre-built system, but one that uses industry standard parts so it can be inexpensively upgraded and repaired later? While there are many system vendors and assemblers out there, I settled on companies like Gateway, Micron and Dell. In fact those are really the three largest system vendors that deal direct, and they mostly sell systems that use industry standard ATX form factor components in all their main desktop system product lines. Or so I thought.

It seems that starting after September of 1998 Dell defected from the cause of industry standardization and began using specially modified Intel supplied ATX motherboards with custom wired power connectors. Of course they also had custom power supplies made that duplicated the non-standard pinout of the motherboard power connectors.

An even bigger crime than simply using non-standard power connectors is that only the pinout is non-standard, the connectors look like and are keyed the same as is dictated by true ATX. There is nothing to prevent you from plugging the Dell non-standard power supply into a new industry standard ATX motherboard you installed in your Dell case as an upgrade, or even plugging a new upgraded industry standard ATX power supply into your existing Dell motherboard. But mixing either a new ATX board with the Dell supply or a new ATX supply with the existing Dell board is a recipe for silicon toast. How do you like your fried chips, medium or well done?

Frankly I'm amazed I haven't heard more about this, since Dell is second only to Compaq in worldwide PC sales. I can only imagine that it is because they started using these non-standard boards and power supplies in late 1998, and most of those systems haven't yet come due for motherboard upgrades. However they are now passing 2 years old, which is about the time that many consider motherboard upgrades. That is why after discovering this information I wanted to make it well known, I figure by getting this information out as soon as possible I can save thousands of innocent motherboards and power supplies from instant death upon installation.

If you've already fallen victim to this nasty circumstance, believe me, I feel your pain. I discovered this the hard way as well; by frying parts. At first I thought the upgraded power supply I installed in one of my Dell systems was bad, especially considering the dramatic way it smoked when I turned the system on, I actually saw fire through the vents! Good thing I decided to check the color codes on the connectors and verify the pinout on another Dell system by using a voltmeter before I installed and fried a second supply. I was lucky in that the smoked supply didn't take the motherboard with it, I can only surmise that the supply fried so quickly it sacrificed itself and saved the motherboard. You may not be so lucky, and in most cases I'd expect you'd fry the board and supply together.

Call me a fool but I didn't think I'd have to check the color coding or get out my voltmeter to verify the Dell "pseudo-ATX" power connector pinouts before I installed a new ATX supply or motherboard. You'll also find that motherboard and power supply manufacturers don't like to replace these items under warranty when they are fried in this manner due to non-standard connector wiring.

I spoke with one of the engineers at a major power supply manufacturer, and asked if there was a valid technical reason (maybe some problem in the ATX specification) that would require Dell to use unique connector pinouts. Of course the answer was that, no, the only reason we could imagine they did this is to lock people into purchasing replacement motherboards or power supplies from Dell. In fact what makes this worse is that Dell uses virtually all Intel boards in their systems. One I have uses an Intel D815EEA motherboard, which is the same board used by many of the other major system builders, including Gateway, Micron and others. The same except for the power connectors that is. The difference is that Dell has Intel custom make the boards for Dell with the non-standard connectors. Everybody else gets virtually the same Intel boards, but with industry standard connectors.


At first I thought that if all they did was switch some of the terminals around, then I could use a terminal pick to remove the terminals from the connectors (with the wires attached) and merely reinsert them into the proper connector positions, allowing me to use the Dell power supply with an upgraded ATX motherboard in the future. Unfortunately if you study the Dell main and auxiliary connector pinouts I've listed here and compare them to the industry standard ATX pinouts listed earlier, you'll see that not only are the voltage and signal positions changed, but the number of terminals carrying specific voltages and grounds has changed as well. It would be possible to modify a Dell supply to work with a standard ATX board, or to modify a standard ATX supply to work with a Dell board, but you'd have to do some cutting and splicing in addition to swapping some terminals around. Usually it wouldn't be worth the time and effort.

If you do decide to upgrade the motherboard in your Dell system (purchased on or after 09/98)_then there is a simple solution, just make sure you replace both the motherboard AND power supply with industry standard ATX components at the same time. That way nothing gets fried, and you'll be back to having a true industry standard ATX system. If you want to replace just the Dell motherboard, you're out of luck unless you get your replacement board from Dell. On the other hand if you want to replace just the power supply, you do have one alternative. PC Power and Cooling now makes a version of their high performance 300W ATX power supply with the modified Dell wiring for about $110. Note that the internals are identical to their industry standard high performance 300W ATX supply (approximately $84), only the number and arrangement of wires has changed.

For the time being, I'm suspending any Dell purchase recommendations until they move back into the fold of true industry standardization. Fortunately others like Gateway and Micron have remained true to the industry standard.

[jimmalenko]

@dosun:

We who are sticking to the topic at hand are achieving plenty, so please take your flaming somewhere else. We don't want this thread locked because of your ego.