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  1. Originally Posted by hech54
    Everybody in America want's something for nothing....and the way they go about it is to sue somebody....but only if they have money to be taken.
    Remember McDonalds?

    Thanks to some stupid money hungry bitch...all of the coffee cups have:

    CAUTION - COFFEE IS HOT


    STUPID, MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE are all these lawsuits are about. LAZY FVCKERS who ignore the rules that are clearly written on the back every BB receipt.

    Ah, the hot coffee incident. A stain on my hometown that provides hours of endless fun for responsible people like myself.

  2. Why doesn't anyone ever fault the judge in the coffee incident, or in other similar ones?

  3. Member adam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyCNote
    Why doesn't anyone ever fault the judge in the coffee incident, or in other similar ones?
    The judge did nothing wrong. Neither did the other hundreds of judges who decided identical cases. There is so much more to the case then what the average person knows, everyone just assumes she should have known better. She did know better, but accidents still happen, and the jury took this into account in finding her contributorily negligent. She didn't sue because she spilled the coffee. She sued because the coffee was so unreasonably hot that it injured her much more then spilling coffee should have. Its equivalent to getting 3rd degree burns when you sip the soup from a spoon. You know its hot, you know to be careful, you know to blow on it, and you know to sip it slowly. But even doing all of that, if the soup was as hot as McDonald's coffee, you will still receive 3rd degree burns.

    It also makes a huge difference when you find out why the coffee was so hot, how much she originally sued for, and why the jury awarded her additional millions of dollars in damages knowing full well that she would never get a dime of it. If you want to know the answers do a forum search on this issue, but I can assure you that this is the most mischaracterized lawsuit in American history. It is a perfectly legitimate case and McDonalds basically got off with a slap on the wrist.

  4. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    Not that I have any love for BestBuy, but I will say, depending on where you are, mom and pop stores will still screw you if you let them. I am currently in a small town with no big retail computer stores anywhere nearby. I have a Wal-Mart, a Staples and a Radio Shack (funny story about radio shack later). There are a few smal family run computer stores in town. I went into two of them today.

    One had an internal LG 16x DVD-ROM, not a burner, just a ROM for $98!!!

    The other had a sign posted for an internal 4x NEC DVD+/-R (I BELIEVE it was dual format) for sale. I'm guessing this is provbably a 1300a. The price they showed was $275!!!

    What could possibly cost so much about these drives. I understand that a small store doesn't have BestBuy or Newegg's buying power. But short of making a road trip to an out-of-state distributor for every item on an individual basis, what could possibly justify that kind of a price?
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.

  5. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Agreed, adam. I've always hated that "example" of American litigiousness.

  6. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    I see it more as an example of not taking responsibility for our own ignorance.
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.

  7. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyCNote
    Beyond that, how acquainted are you with shopping in the US? I certainly wouldn't presume to make such statements for such situations ni Germany....
    I still hold an American passport.
    I've only been here for 2 years and already the news of stupid lawsuits being laughed out of court HERE puts a huge smile on my face. I love the fact that the German courts never put up with the stupidity that American courts put up with.

  8. Member GizmoTheGremlin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    I see it more as an example of not taking responsibility for our own ignorance.
    To a certain point, I agree with you. If you make a foolish decision based on your own ignorance, then you will more than likely have to suffer the consequences. But many laws here in America are made to protect the ignorant. After all, if no one ever made a poor decision, well we would have a lot less court cases.

    That being said, no matter how smart you may think you are, you will at some point be the sucker. If you're lucky, the legal system will protect you.

  9. Originally Posted by adam

    It also makes a huge difference when you find out why the coffee was so hot, how much she originally sued for, and why the jury awarded her additional millions of dollars in damages knowing full well that she would never get a dime of it. If you want to know the answers do a forum search on this issue, but I can assure you that this is the most mischaracterized lawsuit in American history. It is a perfectly legitimate case and McDonalds basically got off with a slap on the wrist.
    I agree that there's a lot about this case, as in many others, that is not known to the public because the whole thing has been reduced to a sound bite. There is a lot of casting the exception as the rule going around....

  10. Member GizmoTheGremlin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54
    I still hold an American passport.
    I've only been here for 2 years and already the news of stupid lawsuits being laughed out of court HERE puts a huge smile on my face. I love the fact that the German courts never put up with the stupidity that American courts put up with.
    You're right. I'd love to see many of the cases here thrown out. It's makes me especially sick to see so many people trying to get rich quick by suing somebody.

    At the same time, there has to be a balance between protecting those who need it and getting rid of people looking for their "big break."

    This particular suit with Best Buy is from the state of Ohio. "Go Bucks!!" They're not trying to get rich, just protect the consumers. So I commend them.

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    I've got a story about Radioshack too, I actually worked at one very briefly. We sold a lot of DirecTV setups and...well, one got returned (To be honest, we had a lot more than that returned though), the folks who had bought it tried mounting it onto a tree which according to the directions is a no-no. Anyways, it fell eventually and they brought it back as it no longer worked right. My boss comes into the back with the parts in the box, and goes "Rich, pack this one back up". I'm like...wtf...I heard this guy say it won't work "John, I thought it didn't work" He goes "We can still sell it" I looked at him with a look of disbelief and said "do it yourself John, I'm not repackaging a broken Dish, we just got a perfectly good shipment of 50 which I received this morning" I eventually ended up quitting that crooked place and since then refuse to give them one cent of my money. Screw Radioshack

  12. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GizmoTheGremlin
    That being said, no matter how smart you may think you are, you will at some point be the sucker. If you're lucky, the legal system will protect you.
    I agree the justice system should protect even the ignorant when those who are not-so-ignorant try to take advantage of their ignorance. I fully support punishment when the ignorant come to harm because of malicious intent or deception. I just don't agree with the idea that there's someone else responsible for everyone's mishaps.

    Teenager takes gun to school; must be bad parenting.

    Child beats up another child; video games are too violent.

    Man falls to his death while trying to bungie jump with two pieces of rope and a rubberband; the rope and the rubberband should have had warning labels against bungie jumping.

    A bit absurd, but then again so are some of the cases where 'someone else' is always to blame.

    I hate living in an 'idiot proof' world because people are too stupid to think things through and at least have SOME idea what the consequences are.
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.

  13. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    My Radio Shack story. This past weekend I was getting a lot of noise from one of my servers. I was thinking it was the power supply and decided I needed a replacement ASAP. Since it was Saturday and the 'computer stores' (see the $275 for a 4x internal NEC story above) were closed until Monday, I had limited options. Neither Staples nor Wal-Mart even carried them. Radio Shack was my last hope. I told the guy I needed a power supply. I followed him and he was about to hand me a PC power cable. I told him that wasn't it, I needed an actual power supply, to go INSIDE the computer. Next he takes me to the UPS section and asks if one will work. I realize they're not a 'computer' store, but I REALLY hate the fact that lately, most 'retail computer stores' are just staffed with people who might as well be working at the GAP.

    In the end it turned up being a bad fan in my swappable drive bay. (WHEW!)
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.

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    I purchased a floor model Pioneer projection TV from BB a few years ago. They threw in the extended warranty. Good thing. I had someone out to fix it a couple of times in the first 3 years. When it came time to renew the service contract, I jumped at the chance. Only problem was that now BB started sending out their own techs to fix my TV problems rather than contracting the work out to a competant repair shop. Over the next 3 years, the quality of repairs went down the toilet. Each repairman complained about how previous repairs were botched. I found screws and broken plastic pieces all over the floor when they left. And they never were able to fix my convergence problems. But I still figured that it was better to be under contract rather than face the consequences of a tube replacement out of warranty. So I waited for the letter offering me another renewal. And I waited and waited until I came to the realization that BB had no intention of renewing my service contract. I can't say that I blame them as the repairs on my set probably added up to more than what I originally paid for the set and the first service contract.

    I hope that the state of Ohio sticks it to BB.

  15. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    I agree the justice system should protect even the ignorant when those who are not-so-ignorant try to take advantage of their ignorance.
    That's where the McDonald's story comes into play. I've worked in minimum wage where we were told to do stuff above or below specs for whatever we were doing, just to get that extra inch out of it. When things went fubar, we'd be asked "where is it written to put the coffee at 600 degrees?" We'd say "we were told...", the boss:"No I didn't."

    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    Teenager takes gun to school; must be bad parenting.
    or NO parenting. 99.9% of the time, you show me a bad kid, I'll show you bad parents (or fail to find parents).

    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    Child beats up another child; video games are too violent.
    No, no, no, no, NO! He beat him up to get the video game.

    Originally Posted by ViRaL1
    Man falls to his death while trying to bungie jump with two pieces of rope and a rubberband; the rope and the rubberband should have had warning labels against bungie jumping.
    Since he's dead, I'm assuming Class Action. I'd have to sue them for including me in that "class".

  16. Member ViRaL1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Towncrier
    I purchased a floor model Pioneer projection TV from BB a few years ago....But I still figured that it was better to be under contract rather than face the consequences of a tube replacement out of warranty.
    Huh?

    Also, I do blame bad parenting for SOME of the bad kids, but probably closer to 2/3. Some kids are just bad. At times I wonder, who's the worse partent, the one who beats their child, or the one who doesn't beat them enough.
    (...and by beating I don't mean how an adult would beat another adult, just somewhere beyond spanking.)
    Nothing can stop me now, 'cause I don't care anymore.

  17. Originally Posted by hech54
    STUPID, MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE are all these lawsuits are about. LAZY FVCKERS who ignore the rules that are clearly written on the back every BB receipt.
    First of all stop bashing America. If you want to piss and moan about America start a new thread. Second, show me where on the back of the average BB receipt it states "May be flat out lied to by the sales staff in an effort to get you to buy things you don't need even though such conduct is expressly against the law and we have been sucessfully sued for it in the past...."

    -Suntan

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    > I've only been here for 2 years and already the news of stupid lawsuits being laughed out of court HERE puts a huge smile on my face. I love the fact that the German courts never put up with the stupidity that American courts put up with.

    I lived in Germany for 12 years. There are things that are better about their courts. But here's one example of the stupidity they don't put up with- my landlord's sister had a lump in her breast. The doctor did a biopsy and screwed up- she ended up losing her breast because of the doctor's mistakes. According to what she told me German law limited her damages to $5000. She didn't have any money to hire a lawyer and couldn't find a lawyer to take her case because the maximum amount she could be awarded was too low to make it worth his time even if he got the entire amount.

    Meanwhile (as pointed out above) everybody loves to point to the MacDonald's coffee case as an example of a stupid lawsuit that American courts put up with. I prefer to look at it as an example of the ignorance of the average person that likes to run down America's legal system. Virtually everyone I know that learned the facts of that case (beyond what gets reported in the headlines) agrees that MacDonald's got off light for what they'd done.

  19. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Suntan
    Originally Posted by hech54
    STUPID, MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE are all these lawsuits are about. LAZY FVCKERS who ignore the rules that are clearly written on the back every BB receipt.
    First of all stop bashing America. If you want to piss and moan about America start a new thread. Second, show me where on the back of the average BB receipt it states "May be flat out lied to by the sales staff in an effort to get you to buy things you don't need even though such conduct is expressly against the law and we have been sucessfully sued for it in the past...."

    -Suntan
    Show me that law that states that suggesting "add on sales" is illegal. I'd LOVE to see that. How about a law where salespeople are not allowed to talk at all....that would make as much sense.
    How about the law that states you MUST purchase every add on sale that comes out of every salesperson's mouth.
    That and the law where is it mandatory that STUPID, MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE are exempt from personal responsibility as soon as a purchase is made at a retailer with enough money to sue.
    Whatever happened to the manufacturers warranty?...the one piece of paper guaranteed to make it home with you? And if you do not purchase the BB extended warranty....Get off your ASS and use the yellow pages to find a Sony, Philips etc etc Service Center near you.

  20. Member adam's Avatar
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    The American justice system is inherantly set up for bashing by other countries because its a totally open system. Anyone can bring a claim for almost anything regardless of how frivilous it is. That's because we trust our judges and our juries to sift through the crap. And they do a decent job of it too. The most frivilous cases immediately get summary judgments against them, and the Plaintiff and their council usually get sanctioned and have to pay the other party's attorney's fees and court costs. But that doesn't stop the media from reporting that "10 obese families sue McDonalds for making them fat!" while the whole world shakes their heads at us.

    The media always draws such attention to the silly cases but they never follow up with what happens to them. That's because the sensible conclusion simply doesn't make for interesting reading, and neither do the other millions of legitimate cases filed every year.

  21. Member adam's Avatar
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    hech54, BB has been accused of doing alot more then just offering their extended service plans. Pushing the plan is fine, but lying to people to trick them into thinking they need it, is a violation of the Deceptive Trade Practices Act. I have personally been a victim of this, as I mentioned earlier. They repeatedly told me that the manufacturer's warranty only lasted for 1 year when it in fact lasted for 3. I asked them to look it up on the computer and the guy frickin leaned over so that I couldn't see the screen and lied through his teeth, "yes sir its only 1 year, you really should get the service plan because these pixels start to go dead after about 1.5 years." I had already shown him the box stating the warranty was for 3 years, and he told me that the box was incorrect.

    Now this was an isolated incident, but it was a clear violation of the DTPA and if I wanted to I could have sued. Apparantly enough people have experienced similar deception in the State of Ohio, but neglected to sue, that the state felt the need to sue on their behalf, and on the behalf of all of its citizens. Ohio obviously feels that these are more then just isolated incidents and that BB has a policy of deception, at least within their state.

    Also, consider the fact that this suit is being brought by the state not by any individual. There are no "stupid money hungry people" in this suit. The suit was the result of complaints against BB. The people did not sue, they did not ask for money, they simply reported their dissatisfaction with BB's deceptive practices.

  22. @hech54

    So in a round about way you are saying that you don't mind what BB is doing as long as dumb, money obsessed Americans are getting their comeupence?

    Best Buy has been sued in the past for deceptive sales practices that were illegal under the various state's Consumer Protection Laws including Minnesota, where they are headquartered. These suits were/are instigated by the attorney general of those states, not individual "STUPID, MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE". Further these laws are in place to ensure the stability of the overall economy, not to allow a loophole for people to sue the pants off honest companies.

    At the risk of being petty and vindictive, may I ask; How is the German economy doing with that wonderfully, sensable court system you praise so much???

    -Suntan

  23. Member hech54's Avatar
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    The "un-burdened by stupid petty lawsuit" German court system is doing well as a matter of fact....after all...they DO have the ONLY conviction of anyone even remotely related to the 911 hijackings....but that ruling was overturned because the US Court System refused to give up key evidence to KEEP him in jail.
    I imagine the German economy would be much worse if the German court system was burdened by stupid petty lawsuits.
    Good thing the German court system is "burdened" by convicting real criminals AND searching for and deporting people who are in Germany illegally...nobody else seems to give a damn...or they're too busy with ambulance chasing lawyers filing endless appeals and drowning the system in paperwork.

    Here...and in most of Europe..."No means NO"...you lose...too bad...so sad...bye bye. Something the American court systems haven't seen for decades.

    Hey...thanks for asking though..

  24. OK, so was that whole OT tirade you just posted (based on a little quip I added to the end of my post) just meant to cover up the fact that you don't want to admit you like to see dumb money hungery Americans get screwed regardless of the law?

    btw I asked how the economy is doing, not the court system....

    -Suntan

  25. Member hech54's Avatar
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    You really don't get it do you? I thought you were joking.
    1) I am an American...I can say any damn thing I want about my country of origin.
    2) YES...I would like to see every dumb money hungry person out to get something for nothing get the shaft....we just so happen to be talking about an event in America. If it happened here...I'd feel the same way.
    3) EVERYTHING that you see on the news...war, terrorism, lawsuits, oil...all of this....is taking money from YOUR pocket and mine. It's a diversion to keep your mind off of what is really going on. Someone finding new and creative ways to spend your tax dollars and to keep hidden their old tried and true ways of stealing your tax dollars and mine.
    Your tax dollars and mine pay for all of the above....and frankly I am tired of it and you should be too. I was tired of BEFORE I moved here and seeing it in the news STILL makes me sick. Imagine how much better the economy would be without having to pay judges to hear stupid lawsuits(see italic text below).

    4) Der Tag, wenn du die deutsche Sprache lesen und verstehen kannst, ist der Tag, wenn du mich nach dem deutschen econony fragen kannst.
    Meinst du das Land Ungarn?.....Denglish....

    I imagine the German economy would be much worse if the German court system was burdened by stupid petty lawsuits.

  26. Member adam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54
    Here...and in most of Europe..."No means NO"...you lose...too bad...so sad...bye bye. Something the American court systems haven't seen for decades.
    It goes back well longer then that, all the way back to....Europe.
    This is such a typical "he-man lawyer hater" comment. No means no here too. What people don't realize is that appeals are not re-trials. You do not present any new evidence, or ask that any questions of fact really be reconsidered. An appeal is nothing more then a review of errors, and only those errors which were objected to during trial. If the judge makes a mistake at trial, and that mistake leads to an improper decision, then I can't think of any reason why the decision shouldn't be overturned. If the appellate court finds that the judge, jury, or attorneys made every error in the book, but that the jury still could have reasonably come to the same conclusion, then the case will not be overturned or remanded.

    Another thing I can't understand is why people assume that because one civil lawsuit is filed, that somehow somewhere another lawsuit must be foregone. If the state of Ohio pursues this lawsuit does that mean they have less time or money to go after murderers now? Why is it frivilous to go after BB for being deceptive, just because there are much larger injustices being committed elsewhere? Can't Ohio reasonably try to address both problems?

  27. Member GizmoTheGremlin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54
    4) Der Tag, wenn du die deutsche Sprache lesen und verstehen kannst, ist der Tag, wenn du mich nach dem deutschen econony fragen kannst.
    Fair enough. So uh... how's the German economy? 8)

  28. hech54,

    Dude, your nuts.

    First, just because you are an American doesn't mean you are not an American hater.

    Second, this thread really wasen't about the court system so much as it was about Best Buy screwing their customers.

    -Suntan

  29. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adam
    Why is it frivilous to go after BB for being deceptive, just because there are much larger injustices being committed elsewhere? Can't Ohio reasonably try to address both problems?
    Um...I say NO:


    10/2003 - Ohio
    Prison Inmate Gets Death Sentence In Strangling
    An Ohio prisoner convicted of strangling his cellmate will be executed. The prisoner, Timothy Hancock, 33, initially got a life sentence for the November 2000 slaying. However, Warren County prosecutors appealed to demand stiffer punishment, and a new sentencing was ordered. Hancock's death sentence will be automatically appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court, which is required in capital cases. Hancock was convicted two years ago of killing Jason Wagner, 25,of Lancaster. They shared a cell at Warren Correctional Institution near Lebanon. Hancock was serving a life term for a 1990 murder.

    States with the highest number of prisoners on death row:
    California - 607 as of 01/02
    Pennsylvania - 243 as of 02/02
    N. Carolina - 213 as of 02/02
    Ohio - 200 as of 02/02

    ALL of which have the "right" to this nonsense:
    •The first appeal is filed with the state court of appeals and is based on issues developed from the original trial record. If granted, the case is sent back to the district court for acquittal, retrial or rehearing but the state can appeal the reversal.
    •If denied, the convicted can appeal to the US Supreme Court asking for a "certiorari" review. If denied, this ends the "direct appeal".
    •A person sentenced to death is then entitled to seek state habeas corpus review, which is basically just an additional appeal. It differs from the direct appeal in that the defendant may now raise claims based on facts outside the trial record and they must be claims that could not be raised in the direct appeal. These usually consist of claims of ineffective assistance of counsel. This appeal is filed with the trial court but reviewed by the state appeals court also.
    •If the state habeas corpus review is denied, the inmate can appeal to the US Supreme Court.
    •Then the Federal habeas appeals begin when the inmate files a petition for habeas review with the US District Court that oversees that area.
    •If the writ of habeas corpus is denied by the District Court, the appeal can then move to the US Circuit Court.
    •If the Circuit Court denies the appeal, the inmate can again ask the US Supreme Court for certiorari review. As with certiorari after the direct appeal, the US Supreme Court rarely agrees to hear and consider such cases.
    •If denied a hearing from the US Supreme Court, an execution date is set and the final appeal left to the defendant is to ask for clemency or commutation from the governor and/or the parole board of the state.
    •If this is denied, the execution is carried out, unless another court intervenes for some reason.

    And we pay for it all...including the little Best Buy lawsuit. Our tax dollars protecting the ones who deserve it least.

  30. Член BJ_M's Avatar
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    NO POLITICS


    PLUS THE MUD THROWING WAS GETTING OUT OF HAND
    "Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)




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